▶ 0:11:18>> today we are here to discuss the growing threat to american seniors and their families. The surge of international scams rooted in china are stealing the liens of dollars for hard-working americans and we in congress have a responsibility to confront them head on. The scope of the problem is staggering.
▶ 0:11:43In 2024, older americans lost more than $8.4 billion to fraud according to the fbi, retirees who spent decades planning for their futures only to have their lives upended by monsters operating criminal networks overseas. These are not smalltime criminals. These are highly organized transnational enterprises many of them directly enabled by the chinese communist party.
▶ 0:12:11They rely on chinese platforms, chinese payment channels and scam compounds built and staffed by trafficked workers forced to carry out scams targeting americans. Not only is this a disgusting display of an inability to protect human rights, it's another way communist china is undermining our country. Beijing has allowed this infra-structure to grow and thrive.
▶ 0:12:40No matter what you believe, communist china is the epicenter of the global scam. -- scam industry that destabilizes families bid I decided to make this the first hearing of the year to send message we will not tolerate further an action as they hurt our seniors and what should be their golden years. This network must be stopped.
▶ 0:13:09We have common sense legislation ready to go that would make a real difference in combating scams and holding those responsible accountable. At the end of last year, ranking member gillibrand and I along with fellow committee members introduced the national strategy for combating scams act. It would require a response to fight fraud, recognizing billions are being lost every year and it's time we get partners under a unified strategy.
▶ 0:13:39I'm also proud my scam act was passed by the senate last month. It will give the treasury department the authority to sanction scam account -- compounds and criminal networks. They should not be able to access the U.S. financial system.
▶ 0:14:02Ranking member gillibrand and I are also pushing for the guard act which strengthens penalties for those who target older americans and gives law enforcement more tools to target these climes. These bills are bipartisan and common sense and designed to protect the american people. We need to stop the bleeding of american dollars. There isn't a person alive who is not susceptible to chinese scams and they won't stop unless we do something.
▶ 0:14:29We cannot sit idly by as they harm americans we need to protect seniors and every american I look forward to a productive discussion today.
▶ 0:14:44Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you. I appreciate you all being here. In recent years, scams targeted older adults that have grown more sophisticated and widespread because of the rise of scam centers fueled by human trafficking victims and new development in technology and the use of cryptocurrency.
▶ 0:15:11Sen. Gillibrand: Older americans everywhere are vulnerable to the rise of these scams, including my own constituents. A senior in jefferson county, new york was convinced through a romance scam to withdraw most of his 401(k) funds and transfer the money into cryptocurrency. That is a loss that stings beard it can derail retirement plans, pull apart families and subject seniors to emotional and material harm.
▶ 0:15:40Sen. Gillibrand: Victims can struggle to report scams because of the stigma and shame. Some communities may face additional barriers related to language or fear. This hearing focuses on transnational scams facilitated by chinese criminal organizations. It is worth remembering that asian immigrants, including chinese, can be targets for these scams because of ties to china.
▶ 0:16:13Sen. Gillibrand: International scams are worldwide and this requires robust and coordinated prevention, enforcement and protection efforts. One positive development has taken place in new york. The state department of aging and association on aging in new york and the silver shield of partnership gave older new yorkers tools to allow them to instantly perform scam checks, so they can report to the fbi and ftc in one click. There's much more work to be done.
▶ 0:16:44Sen. Gillibrand: Last year, the government accountability office was to report on federal efforts to combat scams and there was an alarming lack of coordination amongst federal agencies. Based on recommendations, I developed legislation that would require a national strategy to combat scams.
▶ 0:17:10Sen. Gillibrand: Last july I introduced an act with others, increasing resources for law enforcement. I appreciate the willingness of my colleagues to combat scams and look forward to the discussion today.
▶ 0:17:32Chair Scott: Thank you. I'd like to welcome our expert witnesses to talk about how serious this issue is and how to protect seniors. First, nathan picarsic, senior fellow at the foundation for defense of democracies, expert on communist china's strategic ambitions with more than a decade of expense analyzing how they weaponize technology, economic leverage and a military and civil fusion.
▶ 0:18:03Chair Scott: He was the first analyst to document china's 2025 plan. He has informed policymakers and been in major publications. Thank you for being here, please begin your testimony.
▶ 0:18:19Mr. Picarsic: Thank you for the opportunity to offer testimony alongside michael witnesses. As was noted, international scams targeting the elderly populations in america already account for billions of dollars of harm annually. Chinese linked operations support the execution of these scams.
▶ 0:18:42Mr. Picarsic: State backed scam operation support china's broader competition, the government plays a role in these scams, and there's opportunity for the federal government to lead and empower coordination to disrupt and deter chinese state backed scams. International scams are directly relevant to strategic competition.
▶ 0:19:05Mr. Picarsic: Defending against external attacks on our vulnerable including the elderly is a fundamental requirement for succeeding in a long term peace and china understands this good they deliberately position to foment fissures in american society and t at our vulnerabilities good we know about chinese act hacking, industrial espionage and misinformation campaigns.
▶ 0:19:29Mr. Picarsic: Those create risks by subverting markets, and does the bidding of the chinese state through obscure channels. The same campaign also enables the transnational criminal forces that execute and redeem profits from elder scams in the united states. The growing awareness of chinese leading war, but recognition of the full scope of the threat lags. And so does the response.
▶ 0:19:58Mr. Picarsic: One that deters attacks on america's elderly. State backed scams emerged from china just like espionage efforts. Anna plays a leading role in scams that originate in china and outside in south east asia for example, where compounds operate under chinese leadership. China's criminal networks are permitted by the ruling communist party.
▶ 0:20:25Mr. Picarsic: The leaders would rather see criminal acts perpetrated against foreign targets and against china's own aging population. The chinese government has allowed the cottage industry of scam operations, including those that target older victims to exist and excel. They have fundamental advantages. First, advanced technology, the banking sector is globalized, allowing china's criminal networks to transfer money across borders and avoid regulatory authorities.
▶ 0:20:57Mr. Picarsic: They fuel and underground that's already knowable. Elder scams are a key revenue source. And chinese networks refine tactics. Pig butchering scams frequently drain the elderly. The term was first coined in chinese.
▶ 0:21:26Mr. Picarsic: The power's financial system is a threat. It isn't just that there's an internationalized chinese banking system, it's that the chinese estate makes it nearly impossible to reclaim stolen funds. Victims have little recourse after funds have been sent offshore. This amounts to great power stakes. The U.S. cannot afford to stand by as these networks deplete american social trust and the bank accounts of countless americans.
▶ 0:21:56Mr. Picarsic: A whack a mole response will not solve this challenge. The scam networks can outfox others. The united states needs the right protections and to invest in coordination between local, federal and private sector forces and enforce aggressively against chinese federal networks and the arms of the chinese state including the financial apparatus that support them to send a clear deterrent signal to beijing.
▶ 0:22:25Mr. Picarsic: Americans should not be surprised by the chinese government whatsoever. This is the same international actor that decimated global health with covid-19, that hacks U.S. critical infra structure, that maliciously fuels the fentanyl crisis and is bullying america's allies and partners. This is not a responsible stakeholder, it is an adversary and we should take no pride in treating china with kid gloves or hoping they will turn into a responsible actor.
▶ 0:22:56Mr. Picarsic: The state backed scamming they propel proves they aren't enemy keen to target our vulnerable populations. America needs to respond forcefully to protect elders, support our social fabric and our chances of long-term competition. Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this hearing and for the work of the committee to protect america's aging population.
▶ 0:23:15Chair Scott: Thank you. Next, kathy stokes from the fraud network at aarp, one of the leading experts on financial exploitation targeting older adults, and she has been years studying tactics criminals use, the vulnerabilities that exploit and the long-term impact of fraud on seniors and families.
▶ 0:23:40Chair Scott: We've welcomed aarp several times over the years and I want to take a second and say thank you for your leadership in this space, educating your members of millions of americans stay up-to-date on fraud trends and saves innumerable amounts of money. And here and please begin your testimony.
▶ 0:23:55Ms. Stokes: Thank you for inviting me. I want to express my appreciation to you, the rank you member and all the committee members for holding this timely and important hearing. I am the senior director of fraud prevention programs at the aarp fraud network. We represent 120 5 million americans age of 50 and over and their families and we deeply appreciate your attention to the surge of international scams targeting seniors.
▶ 0:24:27Ms. Stokes: Fraud is a national crisis, but bigger than most of us recognize. 12.8 billion was reportedly stolen in 2024 but the true cost is far higher. They went back to that and revised it in december to $196 billion, leaving our economy in a single year to fraud. $81 billion of that from our nations seniors.
▶ 0:24:55Ms. Stokes: They robbed victims of savings, independence and security. The fraud watch network is on the front lines of educating millions of consumers, supporting victims and driving systemic change. Our helpline receives 500 calls per day from those reporting scams, to victims seeking help. We also offer support groups to help victims rebuild their lives. We hear from people like lori, an account specialist for a pharmaceutical company.
▶ 0:25:25Ms. Stokes: A few years ago she fell in love with a man whom she first met when he reached out to her on linkedin to ask for advice about moving to her area. He then spent months carefully grooming her. As her interest deepened, he asked for her help. She ended up loaning him $675,000, nearly all of her savings, including from her 401(k) plan and loans.
▶ 0:25:54Ms. Stokes: When she discovered it was a scam she was of course devastated. Then she learned she would have to pay $225,000 in federal taxes on the money stolen that she no longer has. The massive tax bill forced her to file for bankruptcy and the irs was first in line for payment. In addition for fraud prevention through education, we are leaving an effort to change how we talk and think about fraud victims.
▶ 0:26:23Ms. Stokes: Our words matter campaign shows that blaming victims at d prioritize is a fraud is a crime and we see real movement among consumers, media, policymakers toward understanding fraud is a crime and it is not the victim's fault. Aarp is also proud to be a founder of the national elder fraud center.
▶ 0:26:46Ms. Stokes: We recently revived a stalled transnational federal fraud investigation when it was able to identify a network of 24 U.S.-based shell companies seeking victim funds. Transnational criminal organizations drive the expansion and they are national security threat.
▶ 0:27:06Ms. Stokes: The sophisticated scam we talked about originated in southeast asia, they are using human trafficking for frontline scammers come up targeting and devastating americans, and forcing many to rely on government safety nets in their retirement. We are pleased to see solutions proposed by congress including the interaction -- introduction of the guard act and the strategy for combating scams act by the chair, ranking member and other senators.
▶ 0:27:33Ms. Stokes: These seek to improve the response to fraud and better coordinate agency efforts and ensure law enforcement has the tools needed to combat these crimes. We also advocate for reinstating the personal casualty and theft loss reduction, as the tax relief for victims of scams would do. Victims like lori who owe taxes on stolen funds they no longer have and no way to pay.
▶ 0:28:04Ms. Stokes: There's no single solution and every sector has a role to play. The visuals can take steps to protect themselves and loved ones. Industry must innovate on fraud controls, and tech companies must build security into projects so they are secure by design and saved by default and the financial services industry must do its part to stop customers from being defrauded and addressing fraud does require a whole of society response.
▶ 0:28:33Ms. Stokes: We can't educate or engineer or regulate or arrest our way out of this crisis alone. Altogether we can disrupt the fraud business model, protect millions of americans and safeguard our economy. Thank you for your leadership and commitment to protecting older americans and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:28:52Chair Scott: She never met him?
▶ 0:28:55Ms. Stokes: They had video. 8
▶ 0:29:00Sen. Lee: Gillibrand -- Sen.
▶ 0:29:04Gillibrand: Video call, wow.
▶ 0:29:09Ms. Stokes: They were using deepfake.
▶ 0:29:12Chair Scott: I would like to introduce jaclyn burns koven, head of cyber threat intelligence at chainalysis, who studies fraud networks targeting victims in the united states, working on illicit national flows and finding out how overseas organizations including china linked networks move and launder stolen funds through
▶ 0:29:43Chair Scott: Digital assets. She supports policymakers with data-driven information. Thank you for being here.
▶ 0:29:54Ms. Burns Koven: Thank you for inviting me to testify on the pressing issue of international scams targeting older americans as an urgent matter of national security. I am the head of cyber threat intelligence for a block chain data platform, we've harness the transparency of block chain so that we have the compliance and security solutions needed for this new digital economy to thrive.
▶ 0:30:22Ms. Burns Koven: We track cryptocurrency used by illicit actors such as those carrying out investment and impersonation scams and provide data on their activity to private and public sector customers including the federal government. The unique visibility into the crypto economy shows how seemingly small scam payments from individual victims are funneled into industrial scale fraud conglomerates.
▶ 0:30:46Ms. Burns Koven: We know behind these transactions are real people, often seniors, manipulated into sending their lifesavings into technologies they might not understand. These syndicates are incredibly well resourced. 2025 was a record year for scammers, stealing an estimated $17 billion in cryptocurrency.
▶ 0:31:08Ms. Burns Koven: Chinese scam conglomerates are undeniably the global market leaders in fraud, in large part because of use of innovations including crypto and ai to make schemes more convincing and scalable. Everything from social media profiles, mass calling, deepfake and voice cloning, to laundering, is available on underground rocket places and they leverage cryptocurrency as a form of payment.
▶ 0:31:36Ms. Burns Koven: Cryptocurrency are often the financial rails of choice for scammers for the same reason legitimate users use them, but I am here to say that this use should place them at a fundamental disadvantage given the traceability and feasibility of these assets could we analyze transaction data to provide clear information into scam networks and laundering at a level of transparency that is impossible in traditional forms
▶ 0:32:06Ms. Burns Koven: Of value transfer. Block chain should be foundational at strategic and tactical levels. Law-enforcement and regulatory entities can cut them off from global financial institutions and made it harder for them to profit by targeting those on the block chain.
▶ 0:32:27Ms. Burns Koven: It offers opportunities to trace crimes, identify additional victims and partner with the private sector to pursue restitution rather than relying on one-off criminal investigations. However, despite the huge potential for disruption, scammers are exploiting the disjointed, reactive nature of how public and private sectors respond to schemes.
▶ 0:32:49Ms. Burns Koven: The crisis requires a unified technology enabled response, preventing americans from engaging the scams altogether, and identifying those perpetrating the scams.
▶ 0:33:01Ms. Burns Koven: My recommendations include firstly the creation of a counter scam strategy, orchestra and a conference of response including centralizing scam reporting, streamlining, coordinated action to dismantle scam conglomerates and return funds to victims and facilitating information sharing between the public and private sectors.
▶ 0:33:22Ms. Burns Koven: Scam victims have multiple agencies they can report to if there is no -- but there's no easy mechanism for the agencies to report to each other or to who is best positioned to help prevent victims. We need to use all levers of government to target the scam ecosystem holistically from money launderers to data brokers. Secondly, we need to leverage advanced technologies to combat growing sophistication.
▶ 0:33:48Ms. Burns Koven: Too often victims are turned away from authorities who are ill-equipped to properly assist crypto cases. This challenge also demands a paradigm shift from reactive enforcement to proactive disruption. Through ai powered product -- fraud prevention technology to identify scammers before they meet victims and empower on enforcement to move upstream into take the fight directly to scammers.
▶ 0:34:13Ms. Burns Koven: Thirdly, we need to provide financial institutions with guidance to help them intervene when customers attempt to send funds to scams eared clear, consistent guidelines could help scrutinize transactions and what is appropriate. Lastly we need to close gaps in standards implementation especially for countries that host services scammers rely on to launder funds, defrauded from americans.
▶ 0:34:43Ms. Burns Koven: In an absence of cooperation, more pressure is needed to disrupt the offshore financial networks and the digital asset services flagler return -- flagrantly ignoring laws. Thank you for the opportunity to offer testimony and continue to be helpful partner to better protect americans, especially the most vulnerable. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:35:04Chair Scott: Thank you. I recognize ranking member gillibrand.
▶ 0:35:10Sen. Gillibrand: I want to introduce seto bagdoyan, who is the director of audit services, frenzied onyx and investigative service from the gao. He's served many roles, including homeland security and justice.
▶ 0:35:37Sen. Gillibrand: He is also served a detail on the senate finance committee and private positions. You may begin your testimony.
▶ 0:35:50Mr. Bagdoyan: Chairman scott, ranking member gillibrand, senator johnson, I'm pleased to discuss the gao 2025 report about scams targeting consumers, including older adults, and the federal response. Scams, a method of committing fraud, employee deception and manipulation for financial gain.
▶ 0:36:19Mr. Bagdoyan: Scammers often operate from foreign countries, engaging with targeted victims with a type of scam and requesting payment under false purpose. One example highlights the scope and reach of scams and the financial toll on consumers.
▶ 0:36:37Mr. Bagdoyan: A 2023 international police operation against online financial crime including scams yielded over 3000 arrests and seizures of 300 million in assets across 34 countries, including the united states.
▶ 0:36:55Mr. Bagdoyan: However, the full extent of losses and the risks that underpin them is elusive, since these estimates often are based on underreported consumer complaints rather than systematic assessments of scam risks and other implications.
▶ 0:37:14Mr. Bagdoyan: In our report we noted that given the scope, scale and nature of scams and the risks they pose, the federal response falls short on risk management fundamentals, especially lacking a governmentwide strategy and lead agency to organize and coordinate and target.
▶ 0:37:39Mr. Bagdoyan: There is no common definition of what constitutes a scam and no systematic assessment of scams into the risks posed to consumers. Accordingly there's no assurance the federal response as it is now is addressing the right risks and priority and in the right manner.
▶ 0:38:01Mr. Bagdoyan: A governmentwide strategy would introduce risk management fundamentals to help ensure the federal response to significant, dynamic and sophisticated risk is integrated, prioritized, targeted and adaptable. We made 16 recommendations to fbi, ftc and ftb, who are best positioned to leave the federal response go response g.
▶ 0:38:30Mr. Bagdoyan: Responses are mixed, they have accepted some and took no explicit positions or projected others. Fbi agreed to assume the lead for the governmentwide strategy and outlined initial steps, however its disagreement with other recommendations essential for an effective strategy such as adopting a common definition, is concerning.
▶ 0:38:53Mr. Bagdoyan: While we acknowledge agency positions on these challenging undertakings, it's imperative for them to implement all recommendations, otherwise the governmentwide strategy will ultimately be ineffective. In closing, scams, including those of foreign origin, pose immediate risks of harms to consumers. Accordingly, these risks require decisive, expeditious a federal response.
▶ 0:39:22Mr. Bagdoyan: The response is underpinned by adopting a common definition of scams could this serves as the organizing principle for assessing and quantifying risks posed by scams and crafting and implementing a governmentwide strategy to counter them, including those of foreign origin. In this regard, legislative action would charge the federal response and importantly establish oversight and ensure accountability.
▶ 0:39:52Mr. Bagdoyan: Chairman scott, this concludes my remarks and I welcome committee questions.
▶ 0:39:55Chair Scott: Thank you for coming and your testimony. Now for questions, senator johnson.
▶ 0:40:07And -- Sen. Johnson: So lori, it was primarily from her 401(k)?
▶ 0:40:18Ms. Stokes: Yes.
▶ 0:40:24Sen. Johnson: How did she have this tax? I don't understand how it can be that high.
▶ 0:40:33Ms. Stokes: I'm not an accountant, I just know it was 225 thousand dollars and that forced her to file chapter 13.
▶ 0:40:42Sen. Johnson: I'd like the details -- she shouldn't of had to pay anything. I could maybe see penalty for early withdrawal but that would be cruel. She lost her money, if anything she should get a tax refund. It makes no sense to me so I would appreciate that. You laid out some of these scams. I will ask each of you, what is the hook?
▶ 0:41:14Sen. Johnson: Can you give anybody watching, be aware when you see this? I will start with Mr. picarsic, what are two or three of the most common hooks?
▶ 0:41:28Mr. Picarsic: Pig butchering, which is similar to the lori attack, sort of confidence scheme and recurring outreach from an actor you are unfamiliar with or is showing some sort of romantic or unprompted solicitation.
▶ 0:41:49Sen. Johnson: The romantic one is number one?
▶ 0:41:52Mr. Picarsic: It's really big, yeah.
▶ 0:41:57Sen. Johnson: Ms. stokes, what are some other ones? I want people watching this to be alert -- when you see this.
▶ 0:42:07Ms. Stokes: A big one is tech-support scam, you are on your device and you get a pop-up and it says there is a horrible problem with your device and you have to call the number they give. You react immediately because you are scared and you call someone and it is the scammer and it goes from there. It ends up involving accounts and it's very complicated.
▶ 0:42:31Ms. Stokes: To echo a little of what nathan said, there are so many scams -- let's say there are 80 scams and each has red flags, like 10 red flags, that's 800 things to remember and is exhausting for educators and consumers who think they can help themselves, right? We take it up a level, sort of like stop, drop and roll for fire, but this time it's about recognizing three things that come with most scams.
▶ 0:43:01Ms. Stokes: That is a contact out of the blue that yields heightened emotion and contains urgency. If we can train on that we can also train on how to take an active pause.
▶ 0:43:11Sen. Johnson: I would add a fourth one, they ask you to call a number or click on this. With that also be?
▶ 0:43:19Ms. Stokes: I'm trying to bring it to a higher level because there are million of those.
▶ 0:43:24Sen. Johnson: You need to contact them, they need you to do something like open this link?
▶ 0:43:30Ms. Stokes: Click on the link, call a phone number. We educate millions of people and I would say education is critical, but we are not educating our way out of the crisis. We need to do things to stop the scam from getting to the consumer to begin with.
▶ 0:43:50Ms. Burns Koven: From our perspective, we just published research that impersonation scams have increased 1400% in the last year. They are impersonating trusted individuals and entities -- law enforcement, a known tech company, cryptocurrency platform or financial institution. Those are the hardest to weed out because they are leveraging someone's trust that already exists.
▶ 0:44:18Ms. Burns Koven: I would echo the comments that the sense of urgency especially. We also finding increased payments from scammers in cryptocurrency to bulk sms tools. They're coming for americans on every platform, right into our phones, and they are buying data lists with names, emails, phone numbers of americans to target, in the hundreds of thousands.
▶ 0:44:46Sen. Johnson: Thank you.
▶ 0:44:49Mr. Bagdoyan: Thank you. I think the other witnesses covered most of the space that I would also say investment scams that promise exorbitant returns with little or no risks, 1000%. I get them by mail and text all most on a weekly basis. Send us $1000 and you will have $1 million by the end of the year. That's great, but it goes into the garbage.
▶ 0:45:19Mr. Bagdoyan: You have to be alert. It's too good to be true.
▶ 0:45:22Sen. Johnson: Thank you very much.
▶ 0:45:26Chair Scott: Senator warren.
▶ 0:45:30Sen. Warren: Thank you and I want to thank you for holding this hearing. Falling victim to a scam is devastating for anyone but it can be especially hard for seniors. When older americans are taken advantage of, it's important for them to have someone to turn to who will be on their side, someone who will help out. That's where the consumer financial protection bureau comes in.
▶ 0:45:56Sen. Warren: The cfpb is a financial cop on the beat for american consumers. Since 2011, it has saved over $21 billion for hard-working families, $21 billion. And that's not all. It has a dedicated office to protect older americans from financial fraud.
▶ 0:46:21Sen. Warren: It also has a consumer complaint database where people who have been ripped off can report scams and get their money back. Mr. bagdoyan, the government accountability office just conducted a review of federal scam prevention efforts. Can you explain how the cfpb protects americans from scams, including seniors?
▶ 0:46:46Mr. Bagdoyan: Sure. As you know from our report we identified cfpb as one of the three entities best position to lead a government wide strategy we are advocating for. Cfpb has the resident expertise, the legislative charge and mission, if you will. It has the experience since the early 2010's, as you noted.
▶ 0:47:16Mr. Bagdoyan: Combined, these things are important. We made five recommendations to cfpb to further its ability to counter scams and coordination as we mentioned as part of the government wide strategy. To create the definition of scams, together better data to analyze data, and find out what the real risks are. This is a very dynamic environment.
▶ 0:47:48Mr. Bagdoyan: What it's been doing, and I think it does all of the 11 categories of activities we identified among the 13 agencies in our universe. It is well positioned to react through regulatory actions, education, advocacy, analytics. Again, it justifies them being well-positioned.
▶ 0:48:11Sen. Warren: A lot of opportunities the way it is structured, both to catch bad guys and respond.
▶ 0:48:17Mr. Bagdoyan: That's right.
▶ 0:48:18Sen. Warren: And help people who have been cheated and get their money back. One of the points you make it, cfpb does not act alone. The three principal actors in this area are the cfpb, the fbi, and the ftc, I thing I have that right.
▶ 0:48:38Mr. Bagdoyan: Correct.
▶ 0:48:40Sen. Warren: I think one of your recommendations was they should coordinate even more.
▶ 0:48:46Mr. Bagdoyan: Absolutely.
▶ 0:48:48Sen. Warren: Would you like to say a word more?
▶ 0:48:51Mr. Bagdoyan: Absolutely, that's one of the key components of a government wide strategy. 13 agencies pretty much working independently, coordinating on an ad hoc basis not systematically, that sort of fragmentation undermines the effectiveness of anything any of the agencies do.
▶ 0:49:10Sen. Warren: Not enhancing effectiveness, not more efficient when they fragment.
▶ 0:49:16Mr. Bagdoyan: That's right.
▶ 0:49:17Sen. Warren: Based on what you said, you would think to protect seniors from scams, president should leverage the cfpb. Unfortunately that's not what he is doing. Instead he is systematically dismantling the agency. Cutting funds, cutting staff and preventing the agency from doing its job.
▶ 0:49:41Sen. Warren: Let me just ask you, does cutting staff, cutting funds, issuing stop work orders at the cfpb make seniors more safe, about the same, or less safe?
▶ 0:49:56Mr. Bagdoyan: Thank you for your question, I'm glad you asked it, it's very timely. As you may know, you submitted a request to us for follow on work on what staffing and organizational restructurings at the agency have been identified and the impact on the ability to emblem it recommendations and do a better job of protecting seniors and others against scams.
▶ 0:50:24Mr. Bagdoyan: Ranking member gillibrand is also party to that request, and also senator hassan I believe has joined recently. This morning we staffed the review so we will be starting that.
▶ 0:50:35Sen. Warren: Oh good.
▶ 0:50:38Mr. Bagdoyan: By spring we should have a decent idea of what our strategy to pursue that will entail and cfpb is one of the agencies we will be looking at. What's really going on and what impacts any of these restructurings, including staff reductions, diversions and other things. Thank you for your timely question.
▶ 0:50:59Sen. Warren: Thank you very much, I appreciate the work you are doing. I want to say a very special thank you to senator gillibrand and senator hassan for joining in the effort. If president trump really cared about seniors he would stop these illegal efforts to shut down cfpb. Cfpb is on the front lines trying to protect seniors and we need to offer support so it can do that important work. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:51:27Chair Scott: Thank you senator warren. Based on your research would you cite the chinese communist party is actively benefiting from the billions stolen from american families?
▶ 0:51:41Mr. Picarsic: Yes, this unfortunately flows back to the chinese banking system.
▶ 0:51:46Chair Scott: If we don't stop this, what will happen the next five years? Will they continue to get bigger and bigger?
▶ 0:51:52Mr. Picarsic: Yes, we've seen exponential scaling and that will continue and worse still, the cost of capital in the chinese ecosystem will decrease and funds will flow into criminal exercise -- enterprises but also other nefarious efforts including modernizing military and the ecosystem for abusing human rights.
▶ 0:52:13Chair Scott: A pretty good profit center for the chinese.
▶ 0:52:16Mr. Picarsic: Absolutely.
▶ 0:52:18Chair Scott: Kathy, how much is it, $200 billion?
▶ 0:52:24Ms. Stokes: Yes, based on the federal trade commission's reporting.
▶ 0:52:29Chair Scott: So to put that in perspective we have a 28 economy.
▶ 0:52:37Ms. Stokes: If it was a fortune economy it would be fortune 17 in revenue.
▶ 0:52:43Chair Scott: What is the single biggest failure in our current response that allow foreign actors to target seniors?
▶ 0:52:51Ms. Stokes: Thank you for asking and there are so many. We need a national fraud strategy. We don't have that. We are seeing some good indications of having one having some success in england and australia and they look to the U.S. and say who is my counterpart and we have nobody.
▶ 0:53:12Ms. Stokes: We need essentially a fraud czar in the administration, coordinating efforts across agencies and with the private sector, law enforcement, using data-driven means of being able to understand how these crimes individually tied together to get the organized crime connection, to make the case is a big enough to actually investigate and prosecute.
▶ 0:53:37Chair Scott: Is there an agency that has a dedicated group doing this?
▶ 0:53:42Ms. Stokes: I believe there are, yes.
▶ 0:53:44Chair Scott: But they are not coordinating?
▶ 0:53:47Ms. Stokes: We could use better coordination, yeah.
▶ 0:53:51Chair Scott: When you track stolen funds from pig butchering, where does the money flow and how quickly does it move out of the reach of the individual and law enforcement?
▶ 0:54:05Ms. Burns Koven: Thank you for the question. The funds typically aggregate in consolidation wallets. One victim from florida, one victim from illinois. We see smaller payments aggregate and larger consolidation clusters that signal the centralized efforts of the scam conglomerates. Then they off board into chinese money laundering networks.
▶ 0:54:36Ms. Burns Koven: We see one that have special measures applied to it by the federal government as well as others. Mostly chinese leg which money laundering services, but we see -- language laundering services, but we see others. These movements are rapid but we have opportunities with consolidation laws that hold funds for longer periods of time.
▶ 0:55:05Ms. Burns Koven: None of the challenges is the communication between private and public sector, connecting the victim in illinois to the victim in florida to see the bigger picture and the beauty of blocking intelligence is you are able to unravel the entire picture without filing a single subpoena. Working with the private sector, law-enforcement has had stunning success, just this year, $15 billion seized from one group.
▶ 0:55:31Ms. Burns Koven: We've had examples of hundreds of millions seized with the help of cryptocurrency exchanges and stable coin issuers. There's a lot of potential but timing is of the essence. That's why we advocate for also a preventive strategy, moving upstream so scammers never interact with the human being.
▶ 0:55:51Chair Scott: When they get the money back, where does it go? How much of it gets back to a victim?
▶ 0:55:59Ms. Burns Koven: That's a long legal process. You have to establish that you are a victim but thankfully the block chain has a clear trail of where a victim withdrew funds in order to deposit it into a scam. I think there could be more clarity in that process to stream like it -- streamline it so victims can be made whole.
▶ 0:56:23Chair Scott: How extensive are overseas networks to the cryptocurrency scams targeting american seniors?
▶ 0:56:31Ms. Burns Koven: There are several data points from the cryptocurrency perspective when to china and southeast asia. The off ramps where the stolen funds are going are primarily offshore apac based services. They have mules, guaranteed services, and they are reinvesting scam profits into additional ai tools, additional sms --
▶ 0:57:00Chair Scott: That's the business model.
▶ 0:57:02Ms. Burns Koven: Absolutely, it's a corporation, a well oiled machine. We see did sin cryptocurrency scam activity during chinese public holidays and chinese new year's.
▶ 0:57:17Chair Scott: When people are working. Thank you. Ranking member gillibrand.
▶ 0:57:26Sen. Gillibrand: In a report the gao recommended a national strategy on scams, legislation that chairman scott and I introduced, the national strategy for combating scams, reflects recommendation. While working on the report, you talked to 13 agencies that engaged in efforts to combat scams, including the cfpb and ftc, or another agency could lead the effort.
▶ 0:57:55Sen. Gillibrand: Can you explain the gao recommendation that the fbi lead the effort instead of the other agencies?
▶ 0:58:04Mr. Bagdoyan: Sure, thank you for your question. The fbi on balance, the factors we reviewed, is best positioned to take the lead. They may have volunteered to do that while other agencies to mirrored -- demurred. We took that into consideration. We made 16 recommendations to three agencies as you know.
▶ 0:58:33Mr. Bagdoyan: We thought the fda given its scope, scale, investigative capacity, they have a financial crimes section, a key unit to tackle these tops -- these types of crimes. They have the authority, the global networks, coordinating with other law enforcement. It's a multiplicity of factors.
▶ 0:58:58Sen. Gillibrand: In furtherance of the question about can you get renumeration for victims because of the lock chain, what tools would be useful in the federal government to be able to recoup some of that money? For example, do we need to augment the capabilities, a special directed unit to do lock chain investigations for a quick return of funding?
▶ 0:59:31Sen. Gillibrand: What recommendations do you have for us to specifically have more tools to use the benefits, the clarity and transparency of the block chain but also create better oversight enforcement?
▶ 0:59:44Ms. Burns Koven: Thank you for your question. I can't speak to any specific agency that in my experience, there needs to be more training and tools using block chain analytics to see the full spectrum of the crime so we can holistically tackle the scam ecosystem.
▶ 1:00:07Ms. Burns Koven: Not just the funds but the services and infrastructure that are supporting and underlying these scams from a tech to data brokers. We need to beat them at their own game. We can do that by incorporating ai enabled fraud prevention strategies.
▶ 1:00:29Ms. Burns Koven: One company leverages ai to identify scam activity and it enables financial institutions and law enforcement to identify more victims and build a bigger case, identify targets for disruption.
▶ 1:00:48Ms. Burns Koven: Frankly, this also allows the data to be integrated with financial institutions so they can prevent scammers from even interacting with human being, before they even engage with the scam itself. In addition to recovering funds and restitution, prevention should be part of the strategy.
▶ 1:01:07Sen. Gillibrand: We frequently hear about the growing use of ai including generative ai and scams that target older adults. How the same technology that target seniors can be used to target scams as you said. Ai chatbot's were recently used to waste time of scammers.
▶ 1:01:32Sen. Gillibrand: You also discussed ai used in blocking scams. Could you talk about that?
▶ 1:01:45Ms. Burns Koven: Thank you for that question. In our recent research we found scams leveraging ai are 4.5 times more profitable than scams that don't and we are rapidly approaching a future where virtually all scams will incorporate ai to some extent. Which is pretty scary stuff when you think about the numbers they are pulling in today. We need to fight fire with fire.
▶ 1:02:13Ms. Burns Koven: Ai enabled fraud prevention technologies leverages ai to identify scam activities across domains, many accounts and block chains. This can enable financial institutions and block chain companies to integrate this into their platform so they can identify you'll accounts, victim accounts and have a picture of the whole scam supply chain.
▶ 1:02:42Ms. Burns Koven: Law enforcement also needs to have this prevention capability and insight to target their efforts against different components of the scam supply chain.
▶ 1:02:52Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:02:56Chair Scott: Thank you. The gao said the federal agencies aren't coordinated well. How does that affect -- if they have coordination, how would it save seniors money?
▶ 1:03:09Mr. Bagdoyan: That's a good question. There might be a way to cross reference approaches by a particular older american who goes to the fbi because that makes sense to them, when the ftc might be better positioned to help them, or the cfpb for that matter or some other agency.
▶ 1:03:35Mr. Bagdoyan: There isn't that close net -- close knit approach to doing that. That should be a basic service available and it probably isn't available. Some agencies except consumer complaints but they will refer them to their own online educational materials, for example, rather than saying thank you for your call but you should have gone to x. I don't think that is happening.
▶ 1:04:06Chair Scott: Mr. picarsic, is it fair to say the communist china party turns a lined I to scam compounds because they want to weaken the united states?
▶ 1:04:21Mr. Picarsic: That's the most generous interpretation. I think they actively support them when they have a chance to.
▶ 1:04:28Chair Scott: Can you describe the level of coordination between the chinese come in all networks and communist china's a broader geopolitical goals?
▶ 1:04:38Mr. Picarsic: They love to produce profits that can flow back to the chinese ecosystem. They look to generate the capacity to project misinformation, sow dissent where they target.
▶ 1:05:01Mr. Picarsic: We see from the geographic layout, the places they get populated with scam compounds tend to coincide with places in the belt and road initiative and have the presence of international banking operations. All of these work together, perhaps not with smoking guns at every turn but with a host of loaded guns that can be pulled when need be. A recent case has been cited, the prince group is a telling example.
▶ 1:05:30Mr. Picarsic: A massive operation able to evade scrutiny in cambodia for a long time. We recently indicted the leader and he was extradited not to the united states, not to our authorities but to the chinese. He was able to be extradited to china because the chinese government is actively courting cambodian business and political leads. These channels overlap and when they need to work together they do.
▶ 1:05:58Chair Scott: If beijing shut this stuff down, could they do it?
▶ 1:06:03Mr. Picarsic: They absolutely could. For better or worse if they respond only to shows of strength and declarations of the capacity to control escalation dominance. For that reason, I think american strategy needs to target the international presence of chinese banks. It's commendable several pieces of gestation the committee has advanced site I.e.
▶ 1:06:28Mr. Picarsic: But authorities they should be used to target seizure of chinese banking and inking leadership assets present in the united states.
▶ 1:06:38Chair Scott: Based on what you're saying, you would not suggest we ever buy things or do any business with china?
▶ 1:06:46Mr. Picarsic: Absolutely. We have a consensus around strategic goods and supply chains, but across the board, american society depends on americans working together and american business is thriving at all levels.
▶ 1:07:05Mr. Picarsic: If we allow even our most nonstrategic assets to be fully offshored to an adversary, we are imposing on ourselves, it's not just the cost of the sector, it's the opportunity driving somewhere else.
▶ 1:07:21Chair Scott: Kathy, can you give me a success story?
▶ 1:07:31Ms. Stokes: We probably talk to about 100,000 people every year through our helpline. We are not law enforcement or social workers, but we are able to talk to people in a shame free zone. We can't get their money back but we can offer emotional support.
▶ 1:07:56Ms. Stokes: We created a fraud support small group zoom session several years ago and some of the people that come through that are here with me today. What we do see in the success is people begin to understand it wasn't their fault, that they are not alone. They rebuild a sense of self. They build a sense of agency. And then they want to do something about it.
▶ 1:08:24Ms. Stokes: We have victims telling their own narratives to you, to law-enforcement, to industry to try and help people understand from the victim impact stance how nefarious these are.
▶ 1:08:38Chair Scott: Probably if somebody
▶ 1:08:41Chair Scott: If someone is victim it would probably be better tv.
▶ 1:08:50Ms. Stokes: We have a youtube series called fraud wars that we launched, these 11 or 12 minute highly produced videos in the first person narrative. They are very captivating.
▶ 1:09:03Chair Scott: Based on your analysis, can you describe the lifecycle of a typical crypto enabled scam targeting seniors from the first contact to the final laundering of funds? Break down how it happens. Say I'm victim and you are trying to take advantage of me.
▶ 1:09:22Ms. Burns Koven: Thank you for the question. We don't often see the full lifecycles. Sometimes we get information after the scam has already occurred. But I can say we are able to use our analysis to find when a victim makes recurring payments.
▶ 1:09:42Ms. Burns Koven: We've been able to do analysis on specific scam typologies, separating out pig butchering versus blackmail and extortion skims from other scam typologies to understand which scams elicit recurring payments from a victim. We can see how effective they are in continuing to bleed out victims of their life savings, versus ones that are shorter-term.
▶ 1:10:13Ms. Burns Koven: We are seeing a growing number of scam typologies which is interesting in the conversation about what a scam is. These scammers are relentless in a capitalizing on new technologies, new flavors of the day, so we are seeing different typologies, leverage and working from home from instance, which is a different on chain presence than an impersonation scam.
▶ 1:10:40Ms. Burns Koven: We see the typical surfaces recurringly used for laundering. The block chain shines a bright light on these services that continue to operate and process scammed funds. While the special measures for example are encouraging, as the largest most prominent service that facilitated scams, there are others.
▶ 1:11:09Ms. Burns Koven: There are definitely successors waiting in the wings. We know that scammers hedge their bets and are present on multiple underground forms and platforms to continue their operations.
▶ 1:11:24Ms. Burns Koven: Anything that injects friction in these conversations, in their laundering, their trust in the different services and imposes cost on all the key components of the supply chain are welcome and should be part of a national strategy.
▶ 1:11:40Chair Scott: Is china and southeast asia -- are they a majority of the scammers?
▶ 1:11:46Ms. Burns Koven: I would say it is certainly a model that is highly effective. Not s not all scams originate from china or southeast asia, but it is set in the model for what we fear other jurisdictions, other organizations could adopt.
▶ 1:12:08Chair Scott: Is information sharing helpful?
▶ 1:12:12Ms. Burns Koven: Absolutely. I appreciate this committee's attention on ways we can streamline information sharing. There are so many different entities where a victim can report their scam, but also many don't. The block chain is effective in highlighting payments of the victims that may have not reported.
▶ 1:12:32Ms. Burns Koven: So we should use that intelligence to drive our mission to be able to -- instead of one-off investigations, grow the amount of funds that are seasonable and reduce friction amongst these agencies.
▶ 1:12:53Ms. Burns Koven: Overall we have to increase public and private sector information sharing to because the private sector instance files a suspicious activity report about a scam on their platform, the bank next door will never get wind of what was in that, but they are encountering the same adversaries. Their customers are being targeted by the same adversaries if they cannot share information. Private sector is best positioned to prevent future scam victims.
▶ 1:13:23Ms. Burns Koven: So we need that quick information sharing and bowl of government and whole of society approach. -- whole of government and society approach.
▶ 1:13:36Sen. Gillibrand: Can you talk about the proposal to have local elder justice taskforces? What effect do you believe these taskforces could have on efforts to combat scams?
▶ 1:13:51Ms. Stokes: I think they are critical. The elder justice task force model allows for coordination among local, state, federal law enforcement, prosecutors, also aging agencies, adult protective services, and it helps the ability for data to be gathered and assessed to be able to start to see patterns.
▶ 1:14:21Ms. Stokes: It is the pattern we are missing, because we are not looking at it through an organized crime lens. I have many examples from san diego elder justice task force that they've done some amazing things, very much because they are an elder justice task force. They are looking at data and being able to understand tying things together. I think it's really important.
▶ 1:14:48Sen. Gillibrand: What are the biggest barriers for seniors to come forward to report when a scam has happened, whether they are barriers for seeking help? What are the best ways for them to rebuild their lives after a scam? You mentioned the relationships and communities you are creating, I think that's terrific. For example, the person you talked about who lost all that tax money, I could get that tax money back from her.
▶ 1:15:20Sen. Gillibrand: I think we should have lawyers who make the case through artifice and fraud that do not owe taxes. She should get some of that back. Having legal services available for scam victims to get some kind of recuperation.
▶ 1:15:36Ms. Stokes: She's certainly not alone. Because the money was taken from a tax deferred retirement plan, they end up owing the taxes because the irs looks at it as income.
▶ 1:15:50Sen. Gillibrand: We can probably change that law.
▶ 1:15:52Ms. Stokes: We would like to see that change. There's a bill out there now.
▶ 1:15:56Sen. Gillibrand: I will work on that and your task force bill.
▶ 1:15:59Ms. Stokes: Thank you very much. In terms of the barriers for victims, one of the barriers is internal. They are so ashamed, so embarrassed, they think it only happens to them. That comes from a society that has tended to blame victims from the crime that is happened. We have done that for years.
▶ 1:16:21Ms. Stokes: We have allowed ourselves to believe it is only old people who are not tech savvy, who may have cognitive issues, so it's sort of a them problem, but now we are starting to understand it is in all this problem, because everyone is being targeted. You don't have to have cognitive decline because of the sophistication of the playbook the criminals use. The other is there are too many calls to action.
▶ 1:16:49Ms. Stokes: You could report it to the fbi and ftc and social security administration and everything else. We need a single door that consumers, that victims can go to, not only to be able to report, but report it into a law enforcement system where the data are going to be connected to other reports so that we can begin -- we can be better at the
▶ 1:17:20Ms. Stokes: Organized crime connections. So many people that report, they never hear anything, especially if they report something online, they are hoping for a call. We need a system where people are treated with dignity and respect and there is some outreach that lets them know what's going on, even if nothing is going on, to make them feel less like it was their fault.
▶ 1:17:46Sen. Gillibrand: Can you talk a bit about what type of international joint ventures we should be trying to have with our allies? I'm certain it's not just american seniors who are targeted, I'm sure it is true across the globe. I could imagine if we have international coordination with the u.k. Or eu allies or asian or middle eastern allies, we could crack some of these criminal networks quicker.
▶ 1:18:16Sen. Gillibrand: Do you have any recommendations for us with regard to coordination of investigations?
▶ 1:18:22Mr. Picarsic: It tracks with the way we've been able to share information, increase early warning and coordinate action in similar realms of criminal activity, including the cyber threat. The way that across our international relationships we've been able to build multilateral forums and support law enforcement. It starts with information sharing.
▶ 1:18:50Mr. Picarsic: We have existing fora from cyber and counterfeit drug and country smuggling activities that can be activated the same way. It is a compelling priority, and one we have infrastructure to pipe the right information through.
▶ 1:19:05Sen. Gillibrand: Last, can you explain why is human trafficking often associated with these type of scams?
▶ 1:19:13Mr. Picarsic: Chairman scott has mentioned how profitable these operations are. Part of their fundamental orientation is they are leveraging trafficked humans so they don't even have a payroll.
▶ 1:19:28Mr. Picarsic: They tend to be populated in these territories where there may be lax oversight and there are hotspots for human trafficking, and there is overlap with the actual people leading compounds and moving money with human trafficking, so they are able to take forced labor and employ them in compounds and also to shield themselves from any scrutiny from local as well as chinese authorities.
▶ 1:19:54Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you, Mr. jim.
▶ 1:19:57Chair Scott: Senator moody?
▶ 1:20:00Sen. Moody: Thank you. Such an important topic. To all seniors in america, especially my home state of florida. We are a premier destination state where seniors moving there in retirement, we often call ourselves not just the sunshine state, but the silver state.
▶ 1:20:23Sen. Moody: As technology has advanced so rapidly, the tools criminals will use to scam our seniors has multiplied. I have realized this very quickly. In my background, I serve as a federal prosecutor, as attorney general.
▶ 1:20:44Sen. Moody: I understood very quickly that the federal standard sometimes for investigation and prosecution in terms of monetary loss, that bar to reach that becomes so high that we are often, if we're not aggregating smaller amounts to show these larger losses in the aggregate, sometimes those fall through the cracks.
▶ 1:21:12Sen. Moody: It is often times those lower amounts, and I say lower only because it is relative to the sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars we might see in one scam, compared to if you aggregate numerous seniors taken advantage of, it could be their life savings. If you don't know they are related, it might seem not to reach the federal levels of investigation.
▶ 1:21:40Sen. Moody: What I found quickly, a huge gap in enforcement, investigations, prosecutions, bringing criminals to justice is the inability of states to match sometimes the manpower and coordination at the federal level, the capabilities to go after these people.
▶ 1:22:02Sen. Moody: As florida's ag, I put together a cyber fraud enforcement team to start, cooperating with federal officials but start bringing in experts to the investigation and prosecution side, because it does require a specified expertise.
▶ 1:22:21Sen. Moody: We saw the results immediately, not only in going after those who might have fallen through, the cracks but also recovering funds, freezing assets, even cryptocurrency. I think this is so important. I' so glad chairman scott thinks to have these hearings. Often times it is foreign nationals that are using this advancing technology to victimize americans, floridians.
▶ 1:22:51Sen. Moody: They are never brought to justice because they are overseas. We are put in a position where we are just trying to educate and prevent, but we have to have the teeth to hold these people accountable. I have totally forgot anything I planned to ask, but I would like to get from you -- it was an initiative in florida, it is now bearing fruit. It is still in existence.
▶ 1:23:20Sen. Moody: They are freezing funds, going after people. Just recently, that same cyber fraud enforcement unit that I started seized $1.5 million connected to a scheme propagated by a chinese national. I'm so proud of what we were able to accomplish there.
▶ 1:23:40Sen. Moody: I'd like to open this up with the chairman's permission, if any of you could comment -- I'm often reluctant to just throw more money at a problem, but if the goal is to get more states to start their own cyber fraud enforcement unit that can coordinate with the feds but also begin to bring their own expertise to bear and help their county and city, so if you have
▶ 1:24:11Sen. Moody: A state cyber fraud enforcement unit that can lay over expertise in rural counties and cities, it was so effective in florida. I'm wondering if any of you have recommendations on how we as a federal government might encourage more state cyber fraud enforcement groups. I saw how effective that was in filling the gap in florida.
▶ 1:24:34Sen. Moody: In d1 -- anyone want to chime in on this, any recommendations for senators how we can make that happen?
▶ 1:24:45Ms. Burns Koven: I am delighted to hear about the successes you've had. That is fantastic. You laid out the best challenges, connecting a victim in florida to the same scam as someone out of state or even out of the country. Block chain analytics has been a common language in visibility for so many successes for scam funds recovery.
▶ 1:25:13Ms. Burns Koven: Crossing that bridge between public and private sector so that the private sector can prevent additional scam victims from falling prey, but more so we need to make sure state, local and federal law enforcement have the tools and training they need to understand crypto cases.
▶ 1:25:32Ms. Burns Koven: We hear often that victims are turned away because they don't know how to investigate crypto cases, or that the case is too small to meet a threshold, when in reality that one scam victim sends funds to a multimillion dollar scam conglomerate where there's a ripe opportunity for asset seizure. In addition to recovering funds, we also have to bring the fight to the scammers.
▶ 1:26:03Ms. Burns Koven: We need to focus on prevention. We can do that through ai. One analysis uses ai enabled fraud prevention to collect scam identifiers from across online infrastructure, from payment systems, to social media, being able to connect victims and using scam structure so that
▶ 1:26:34Ms. Burns Koven: Businesses do not even permit the activity on their platform, but it also is enabling for law enforcement to better target for disruption. What are the key notes underlying this scam ecosystem?
▶ 1:26:48Sen. Moody: Thank you. My staff told me you would know a lot about that. I appreciate it. Thank you for that. Thank you very much, and to all of you for being here today. We appreciate it.
▶ 1:27:06Chair Scott: I want to thank everybody for coming today and participating. I want to remind seniors and families that the senate aging committee operates a fraud hotline for anyone who believes they may have been targeted or victimized. The number is 1-855-303-9470. Nice easy number to memorize. If any senators have additional questions for the witnesses or statements to be added, the hearing record will be open until next wednesday at 5:00 p.m.. Thanks, everybody.