▶ 0:18:50Chair Cruz: Good morning. America is at a crossroads in transportation policy. Autonomous vehicles are no longer theoretical. Like it or not, they are here and they will be central to the future of roadways.
▶ 0:19:12Chair Cruz: Av's are providing mobility to the disabled, improving auto safety and advancing technologies that have potential to save millions of wasted hours in traffic. Even more importantly, to save tens of thousands of american lives. Yet congress has failed to establish a clear federal framework to govern av deployment. That is no longer neutral. It is unsafe.
▶ 0:19:44Chair Cruz: Without federal oversight we risk a fragmented patchwork of state laws that could undermine safety, innovation and american competitiveness. As we consider a surface transportation reauthorization bill it is imperative congress act now to create a national standard for av's.
▶ 0:20:07Chair Cruz: He's in a some states wish to put up metaphorical roadblocks to av's, other states are smartly getting into the fast lane. My home state of texas understands clear rules enable growth, investment, and safety. In texas, av's are moving freight on some highways and operating as taxis and cities like austin.
▶ 0:20:30Chair Cruz: Av's can't just stop at texas's border. We should be clear about the resistance to federal action. Some insurance interests and advocacy groups argue against national standards, often under the banner of safety while imposing reforms that would modernize our system. -- opposing reforms that would up modernize our system.
▶ 0:20:57Chair Cruz: Lower accident rates challenge business models built on high premiums driven by preventable collisions. The reality is this. The overwhelming causes of roadway fatalities today are drunk driving and distracted driving. Autonomous technologies never drive drunk. Autonomous technologies don't text while driving.
▶ 0:21:28Chair Cruz: They don't change the radio station. They don't drop their sunglasses and look for them while driving down the freeway. Expanding av deployment offers real measurable opportunities to reduce these deadly behaviors and improve safety on our highways.
▶ 0:21:51Chair Cruz: If you want to save lives and avoid tragedy for almost 40,000 families each year, we don't need lawmakers saddling automakers with expensive junk mandates that make little to no real difference. Instead, we should follow the data, follow the evidence which increasingly shows advanced av's reduce crashes and prevent serious injuries.
▶ 0:22:19Chair Cruz: We need a consistent federal framework to ensure uniform safety standards, liability clarity, and consumer confidence. Uncertainty benefits no one. Not drivers, not manufacturers, and not state and local officials responsible for public safety. Some but not all insurers are responding to the data.
▶ 0:22:40Chair Cruz: Companies like lemonade have lower premiums for vehicles using full self-driving mode, reflecting growing confidence and growing evidence that these systems reduce risk. The numbers confirm what many already see. Technology designed to reduce human error makes roads safer. Let's acknowledge the technological progress remain -- from av's won't endanger jobs. It will ultimately create them.
▶ 0:23:11Chair Cruz: Av's required american engineers, software developers, safety technicians, mechanics, manufacturing workers and infrastructure specialists. Av deployment can support new high skilled jobs built in the united states by american workers. Moreover, av's can make people more productive and traffic more bearable.
▶ 0:23:38Chair Cruz: If congress fails to act we are not going to stop innovation. We will simply push it elsewhere. China is moving aggressively to deploy autonomous transportation at scale. The technologies at stake were developed in the united states. They can be billed by american workers and they should be governed by american safety standards. A patchwork approach puts that leadership at risk.
▶ 0:24:07Chair Cruz: Let me be clear about one other thing. The american consumer will decide what they choose to drive. No one is that no one should be mandating av's. This is not like biden's de facto mandate killing the gas powered car. But government inaction should not deny consumers access to be able to choose safer options.
▶ 0:24:37Chair Cruz: A federal framework for autonomous vehicles is not about picking winners. It's about setting clear rules, improving safety, creating american jobs, and ensuring states like texas can continue to lead. Surface reauthorization is the moment for congress to act. I will turn the ranking member cantwell for her remarks.
▶ 0:24:57Sen. Cantwell: I think you know I certainly want to get the surface transportation bill done. It is my number one priority since you are taking over the committee. I hope we will get to that. I don't know whether this legislation is the appropriate place for that but I do know nearly 40,000 people die on the roads each year. Thankfully, we have seen help innovative technology can make even drivers safer on the roads.
▶ 0:25:24Sen. Cantwell: Automatic emergency braking technology has been shown to reduce injuries from rear collisions by 60%. These technologies are saving lives today. Fully autonomous vehicles offer potential to reduce crashes on roads but we have seen the risk of letting companies beta test on our roads with no guard rails. In 2024, a report from nixa linked tesla's autopilot to hundreds of crashes, including at least 13 fatal crashes and many injuries.
▶ 0:25:54Sen. Cantwell: Safety advocates allege 65 fatalities to tesla's automated technologies. These tragedies have occurred in my state. In april of 2024, jeffrey nissan was killed in tesla's autopilot failed to recognize his stopped motorcycle. Tessa was allowed to market their technology which they knew needed human supervision as autopilot because there were no federal guard rails.
▶ 0:26:21Sen. Cantwell: In fact, it was the state of california, not the federal government that forced tesla to change its marketing or lose the ability to sell in that state. I do believe federal agencies have a role. What has happened so far is the trump administration has try to get nitsa. Is responsible for ensuring the safety of vehicles. He left 25% of employees.
▶ 0:26:48Sen. Cantwell: I would say it is trying to figure out the latest and greatest technologies and the people that understand them and can do appropriate oversight. Not got the agency. Last year the office of automation had four people. Four people. I don't know if they even knew about automation but only four people. Fewer resources mean last employment. Nhtsa launched fewer recall investigations last year than in 2024. Nhtsa recalls protect consumers.
▶ 0:27:22Sen. Cantwell: For instance, over 67 million takata air bag and fighters have been recalled after nhtsa confirmed 28 people were killed when defective airbags exploded. Price of recalled 2.7 million vehicles after 51 people died in fires from gas tank ruptures in rear end collisions. I have a suspicion that a lot of repair dealers are installing faulty airbags from chinese manufacturers that are failing to protect consumers.
▶ 0:27:51Sen. Cantwell: Where is nhtsa and finding out what is happening with these faulty airbags? Are we going to continue to let people die in the united states? Without strong oversight it is no other states are seeking to fill the void. You will hear from witnesses that believe the best way for the federal government to keep people safe is through a safety case for autonomous vehicles.
▶ 0:28:15Sen. Cantwell: Companies may try to reassure us that the safety cases are living, breathing document but I have my experience played out in the aviation sector. All I can tell you is strong oversight is needed. The best engineers working on the best safety is going to deliver the best product in the best economy for us in addition to the best safety. We cannot just rely on a checklist. I agree that we need a new approach. I'm happy to work with you on that approach.
▶ 0:28:45Sen. Cantwell: I have industry proposals that seek to force autonomous vehicles into the existing framework of the motor vehicle safety act. This is the 60th anniversary of that law. The safety standard has prevented over 18 million crashes. The federal motor safety standards were designed to regulate car doors, bumpers, seatbelts and a variety of things that are not on top of today. The law was passed 20 years before the first windows computer was ever sold.
▶ 0:29:13Sen. Cantwell: It is time for us to get up nhtsa that understands technology and knows what to do with it. This revolutionary technology needs a new approach that provides for flexible guard rails for beta testing and a clear path to safe commercial deployment. It needs to have an educated strong safety oversight from officials and the resources to make it the gold standard like we need in aviation.
▶ 0:29:40Sen. Cantwell: I found it interesting that the house debate on this similar hearing in which the california's basically came out and called her a waymo ban. A lot of anxiety existed underneath the fact that a law most people were concerned about was somehow going to allow very large trucks to exist on our highways in automated vehicles. That seems to be the real crux of the issue.
▶ 0:30:10Sen. Cantwell: Just like everything else, the devil is in the details. The devil is in the details of how we get here. I noticed after that hearing, again, teamsters, safety advocates, even insurers found fault with a preemptive strategy that was unclear. I think we will hear from professor smith about that. The last point of your statement is -- I like two lines in your statement.
▶ 0:30:41Sen. Cantwell: "people are dying today not because we are careful about automated driving but rather because we are careless about the safety generally." and the notion that you -- "I have read many versions of potential preemptive language. In every case the preemptive effect and even the preemptive intent of that language has been unclear to me." we are dealing with this in ai.
▶ 0:31:08Sen. Cantwell: We have to talk about the overlay of ai and av and how that will work. We're going to have a preemptive strategy, then it has to be a real law and it has to have real teeth. We have to understand exactly what we are doing.
▶ 0:31:22Sen. Cantwell: Please understand many americans, including teamsters, are anxious about how this plays out for them, how this plays out for large trucks and how we move forward on advancing both the safety regime we need here and continue to be leaders. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:31:41Chair Cruz: Thank you. I would like to introduce our witnesses today. The first witness is lars moravy , vice president of vehicle engineering at tesla. Mr. moravy oversees the design and tesla and brings more than a decade of hands-on experience, or more precisely hands-off experience with automotive technology and vehicle safety. I understand it is Mr. moravy's birthday.
▶ 0:32:12Chair Cruz: To celebrate we decided to hold a hearing. Our second witness is mauricio peña, chief safety officer for waymo. Deletes the comprehensive safety efforts and brings decades of experience designing, testing and deploying complex safety critical systems across the aerospace and autonomous vehicle sectors. The third witness is jeff farrah , chief executive officer of the autonomous vehicle industry association.
▶ 0:32:39Chair Cruz: He represents companies across the autonomous vehicle sector, including technology, trucking, ridesharing and automotive. The final witnesses brian walker smith, associate professor of law at the joseph wright school of law at the university of south carolina. He researches the emergency and transportation technologies and teaches product liability, torts Mr. moravy, if you are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:33:08Mr. Moravy: Thank you, chairman cruz. Ranking member cantwell and members of the committee for the opportunity to be before you today. I am the vice president of vehicle engineering at tesla. For the past 15 years, I've had the privilege of engineering the best cars in the world in a uniquely innovative way. I lead a team of over 6000 engineers, technicians and analysts who work tirelessly to make vehicles, batteries, machines and products people loved.
▶ 0:33:37Mr. Moravy: I oversee our vehicle design, automation and product manufacturing processes. My team and I developed new systems to ensure the quality, reliability and performance of these products. I'm proud of the work -- incredibly proud of the work we do. At tesla, we believe autonomous vehicles are the future. Av's present the opportunity to improve safety on the road and enhance accessibility to transportation for all americans. Av's provide an opportunity for the U.S.
▶ 0:34:04Mr. Moravy: To create jobs and reassert its dominance in advanced manufacturing for the 21st century. The automobile manufacturing was once a tremendous strength of this country. Tesla believes it can be once again. In the face of an unprecedented global challenge, we as a country need to lead the way he and av innovation to make that a reality. Tesla's manufacturing footprint spans 52 million square feet across the country, making the U.S.
▶ 0:34:34Mr. Moravy: One of the largest and most advanced electric vehicle production hubs in the world. Our headquarters alone is over 11.5 million square feet and rank among the largest manufacturing buildings in the world. We know the future of vehicle manufacturing largely depends on investments may now, which is why we are doing everything we can to ensure the U.S. is an industry leader for av's an ev's. We believe av's can reshape how we travel.
▶ 0:35:04Mr. Moravy: At tesla we are relentlessly innovating to integrate and expand mobility independence and access for everyone. For example, our vehicles use an autonomous driving service, robotaxis, are designed to support accessibility's like -- accessibility. At tesla, safety always comes first. Human behavior is one of the leading causes of accidents.
▶ 0:35:30Mr. Moravy: Drivers could be distraced, speeding or impaired. Av's will dramatically cut accident rates. We believe av's are the next big jump in vehicle safety on our roads. We design our vehicles to exceed all relevant safety standards and we are taking safety further by pioneering av technology designed to reduce collisions and save lives.
▶ 0:35:57Mr. Moravy: Building on our industry-leading crash protection, active safety systems and over the air safety improvements, we are developing advanced features to improve performance. We work tirelessly to bring the safest cars to the market today and leverage technology and ingenuity to create the safest cars of tomorrow. That is a reason my wife and I put our children in the back of the tesla every day when we bring them to school. I note that the safety of our vehicles is second to none.
▶ 0:36:27Mr. Moravy: For america to lead in av technology we must modernize regulations that inhibit the industry's for america to lead in av technology we must modernize regulations that inhibit the industry. Federal regulations have not kept up to with the pace of the rapid evolution of technology. Many standards were implemented decades ago and do not adequately adjust modern advancements such as electric drive chains, automatic driving systems and over the air software updates. Wayne american leadership for av rules and regulations. Nhtsa has set the standard not just in america but in the world.
▶ 0:36:58Mr. Moravy: To do so congress must take steps to modernize so that nhtsa is equipped to address the new frontier. For america to maintain his position and grow its advanced manufacturing capabilities, we must enact a federal framework for the deployment of av's. The committee has the opportunity to position nhtsa is a global gold standard for av development.
▶ 0:37:26Mr. Moravy: Congress must advance this federal legislation so these regulators are equipped to address the realities of the new frontier. Innovators like ourselves have a clear direction forward. Just as the U.S. has historically led transformative technologies that reshaped the global market and enabled america to assert dominance in ways beyond mere transportation, it must now lead in the development of av's.
▶ 0:37:51Mr. Moravy: Tesla is committed to collaborating with congress to create smarter, effective regulations that drive progress, increase safety and make mobility accessible to all. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to your questions about tesla's role in advancing the industry.
▶ 0:38:08Chair Cruz: Thank you. Mr. peña, will recognize. Mr. peña: members of the committee, it's an honor to be here today. Mauricio peña my name is and I service -- my name is mauricio peña and I service chief technology officer waymo. Waymo is the first company in the united states to provide autonomous trips and scale. No human is behind the wheel.
▶ 0:38:40Chair Cruz: When you ride with waymo you can enjoy a safe and reliable ride in a space of your own. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss while thomas vehicles are not just a technological marvel but a moral and strategic imperative for the united states. Tragically, 40,000 people died due to largely preventable traffic crashes on roads across our country every year. With hundreds of thousands more injured, often in life altering ways.
▶ 0:39:09Chair Cruz: Globally, more than one million lives are lost to traffic collisions annually. Best the equivalent of 20 commercial airliners falling from the sky every day. These are not just statistics. They are parents, children, friends and neighbors. At waymo, we believe it doesn't have to be this way.
▶ 0:39:29Chair Cruz: 17 years ago, waymo started as a moonshot that we could use technology to eliminate serious injury and death on the roads and make autonomous transportation accessible to people who are unable to drive themselves. Our mission is to be the world's most trusted driver in achieving that mission starts with safety.
▶ 0:39:50Chair Cruz: Today we have driven nearly 200 million fully autonomous miles on public roads and served over 20 million trips to writers -- riders. Waymo drivers are making the road safe. Data from our first 127 million autonomous miles indicates our driver is 10 times less likely to be involved in a serious injury or worse crash compared to human drivers where we operate.
▶ 0:40:20Chair Cruz: 12 times less likely to be involved in an injury causing crash involving a pedestrian. We have developed the most rigorous peer review analysis to conduct apples to apples comparisons of human and automated driving data. We have a relentless safety first culture that starts at the top and flows through a rigorous governance process. Every software update must be approved by our safety board before it ever reaches the road. For us, safety is not a competing priority.
▶ 0:40:50Chair Cruz: It is the foundation for every decision we make it way mow. -- make at waymo. Today av's are a reality for millions of people. We operate in fully autonomous service for the public in phoenix, san francisco bay area, los angeles, austin, atlanta and miami, providing more than 400,000 rides every week. Americans trust us to get them to their destination safely.
▶ 0:41:21Chair Cruz: I'm inspired by the positive impact we are making on their lives. Riders are taking rides after their weddings, and even to the hospital to deliver their baby or go back home of their newborn. We are there for the write we are there for the wririder's most important moments. U.S. leadership is not guaranteed. We are locked in a race with chinese companies for the future of autonomous vehicles.
▶ 0:41:49Chair Cruz: If they win the race, chinese companies will set the technical standards for the rest of the world. The U.S. needs a predictable, durable national regulatory framework that sets a high safety standard based on the safety case. Without it we face a fragmented landscape of state regulations and foster uncertainty, slow investment and unequal access to technology.
▶ 0:42:15Chair Cruz: To truly deliver on the promise, we need federal leadership and we need it in this congress. Chairman cruz and members of the committee, we share your goal of ensuring a national av framework included in the surface transportation reauthorization bill. American leadership in autonomous driving technology must be defended.
▶ 0:42:37Chair Cruz: We look forward to working with you to ensure american safety and american innovation are the gold standard for autonomous driving around the world. Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:42:52Chair Cruz: Thank you. Mr. farrah, you are recognize.
▶ 0:42:57Mr. Farrah: My name is jeff farrah and I serve as ceo of the autonomous vehicle industry association, the unified voice of the autonomous vehicle industry that is committed to american excellence. I am pleased to testify again this morning. Now is the time of great excitement for the american autonomous vehicle industry. Av's are no longer a futuristic dream of a safer world.
▶ 0:43:23Mr. Farrah: Autonomous vehicles are here and caring your constituents to medical appointments, enhancing supply chains for farmers and manufacturers and creating high-quality new jobs in a mission driven industry. Autonomous vehicles are not just another application of ai. They are the exemplar of what the ai becomes an abuse from the digital to the physical world. What policymakers decide to do or not do on av's will send a clear message about the commitment to ai leadership. I will use my comments this morning to describe two futures from this committee.
▶ 0:43:55Mr. Farrah: We will call them choice a and choice b. Choice a means of seizing the moment for american leadership autonomous vehicles. Under choice a, the future looks like this -- safer roads as the U.S. drastically reduces a nearly 40,000 people who died on the streets each year. Enough to fill national stadium at on game.
▶ 0:44:16Mr. Farrah: More accessible vehicles that finally give me mobility options to the millions of americans left behind by our current transportation system which holds back the elderly, wheelchair users, the visually impaired, too expensive and often does not provide the routes to get people where they need to go. New american jobs that simply did not exist until they were created by the autonomous vehicle industry. Jobs like av fleet deployment specialist, technicians, fleet managers and manufacturing workers.
▶ 0:44:45Mr. Farrah: These jobs will power the future of the american economy. Choice a can be ours if we want it. It does not require a dime of taxpayer funds, only congress putting in place federal rules of the road that allow innovators to thrive. We need action from congress in these areas.
▶ 0:45:03Mr. Farrah: First, raise the bar on safety for all autonomous vehicles by requiring the department transportation to move forward on a series of rulemakings, including requiring av manufacturers create documentation demonstrating why they would -- why the vehicle is safe to be on the roads. The department of transportation to require that companies abide by a series of driving competencies so the public understands the vehicles are safe.
▶ 0:45:29Mr. Farrah: Second, put av data reporting on solid legal footing by enshrining in statute the national av safety data repository that has nhtsa sharing information with state regulatory partners. Modernize federal standards related to be ok and controls that are intended for human drivers, thereby allowing innovators to develop next generation vehicles that take meaningful steps toward on accessibility.
▶ 0:45:57Mr. Farrah: A federal framework should complement this 26 state deployment laws already in state, not replace them. Regular dating autonomous vehicles is a shared responsibility federal and state governments. We need the federal government to step up. Under choice aa, we set the global standards. We build the technology here, create high-quality american jobs rooted in U.S. communities. With choice a, america does not just adopt autonomous vehicles. America defines them.
▶ 0:46:27Mr. Farrah: Then there is choice b on it which we reject this opportunity and failed to put in place a federal policy framework. Choice b has the following consequences; china becomes a global leader on autonomous vehicles. At this moment people's republic of china is devoting massive resources to the development of the national champions. It is not waiting to find what american policymakers want to do. The state run beijing review put it distinctly.
▶ 0:46:53Mr. Farrah: "chinese developed autonomous driving technologies have made inroads into a growing number of global markets, citing activity in france, spain, swiss timber, luxembourg, saudi arabia and the united arab emirates. With one shininess remember calling it, "a hallmark of made in china innovation." under choice b we accept the status quo.
▶ 0:47:16Mr. Farrah: Preventable deaths due to human error, transportation options that leave millions in the rearview mirror, altering supply chains that let small businesses down and states leading -- leaning on av policy with little guidance from federal counterparts. I employer di -- employee -- implore you to choose choice a.
▶ 0:47:44Mr. Farrah: With the surface transportation reauthorization bill before this committee you have the perfect vehicle to lead. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify this morning. >> professor smith, your five minutes.
▶ 0:47:56Mr. Smith: American driving. Automated driving can help if we are careful about it but people are dying today, not because we are careful about automated driving but rather because we are careless about road safety generally. Other countries do care. Driving in the U.S. is twice as deadly as in canada and australia.
▶ 0:48:22Mr. Smith: As a south carolinian, I am 10 times more likely to die in a crash that my friends in the u.k. 10 times. These countries are not hiding some vast secret fleet of the these. I can't yet ala robotaxi in london but I can't cross the street. Arrogance is careless. Av's have tremendous potential but believing they will be a panacea virtually guarantees they walked, because that confidence blinds us to risks.
▶ 0:48:52Mr. Smith: Many engineers working on av's show humility and talk with me about what went wrong and what is uncertain. They want to learn from local officials. I wish av companies would show more humility in their pr. Third, the best proxy for the safety of av's just the trustworthiness of av companies. There are no self-driving or driverless cars. The companies that develop and deploy av's are the drivers.
▶ 0:49:21Mr. Smith: This means an av is only as safe as the company responsible for it. We can and should proactively assess their trustworthiness. Av's will be perfect but a company can still do right after its technology fails. They can explain what went wrong, how it is addressing the actual harm, reducing future risks, and critically what it has learned more broadly. We need to see more of this.
▶ 0:49:49Mr. Smith: Doing right does not mean forcing victims in arbitration and does not mean buying their silence and with misleading the public. These are betrayals of trust. Fourth, safety is on marriage, not a wedding. Safety is a lifelong commitment that continues as long as an av is on the road. It is not just a one-time test for certification or checklist.
▶ 0:50:14Mr. Smith: A credible case must be a living document that is clearly supported robustly interrogated and routinely updated. Vehicles placed on our roads stay there for decades and therefore need oversight for decades. Nhtsa provides some of the oversight and av's will dramatically's expand the scope.
▶ 0:50:34Mr. Smith: Both nhtsa and fsmca have -- av's are part of a broader discussion of ai. We are likely to place hopes and fears about ai generally on av's specifically.
▶ 0:50:55Mr. Smith: The transforming advisory committee which I have vice chaired addressed many issues including employment, accessibility, sustainability in the face of climate change, privacy and governments, and fundamental questions of power. For each we need clear policy goals in an iterative approach to achieving them. Sixth, local government has essential expertise. If you appreciate how much local governments are subsidizing automated driving.
▶ 0:51:22Mr. Smith: First responders solve all kinds of problems today are waking up people in robotaxis to literally moving av's that are stuck. They deserve our respect and then with the people who remotely assist av's to be in the U.S. they need to know av's will help in response to disasters. They wanted to get av companies are moving violation. Every city is unique and av's must operate accordingly.
▶ 0:51:51Mr. Smith: We must empower not disempower our communities. Preempting state and local authority would be profoundly shortsighted. Many states want the federal government to lead on av policy, but great leaders lead. Telling U.S. dot what they were the resources to do it would help much more than telling states what not to do.
▶ 0:52:20Mr. Smith: Preemption can create litigation rather than certainty. For can bar states are getting unsafe vehicles and unsafe drivers, human or otherwise, off the road. Our industry started through federal research and decades -- research decades ago and they grew through federalism. Brand america does have a serious credibility problem abroad, but preemption does not solve it.
▶ 0:52:48Mr. Smith: In a scary time of technological change we need to make sure that communities and the people in them have control and feel in control. We can deploy both technology and policy in a way that protects and empowers them. Thank you. >> thank you you to our witnesses. I will yield to my colleague, senator blackburn to be going questions.
▶ 0:53:15Sen. Blackburn: . Thank you the time for being here today. Mr. farrah, 2017, I was in the house and chaired energy and commerce committee. That is when we took the first legislative text to the committee to deal with autonomous vehicles and allow this technology to flourish.
▶ 0:53:44Sen. Blackburn: We worked on it for about three years to get to that point. Of course, we had some folks that did not realize the safety components that come from working on this technology. They chose to repeatedly shut down the guidelines that would be there for av's.
▶ 0:54:11Sen. Blackburn: I want you to just touch on how this technology, the autonomous technology helps make our roads safer, make our vehicle safer and more responsive, and how it is helping to reduce fatalities.
▶ 0:54:30Mr. Farrah: Thank you for the question and I will say thank you for all your leadership going back to when you were in the house and now here in the senate. It has been quite a few years since a lot of this discussion has started. A couple of things have changed. This is no longer science-fiction. 26 states actively authorize the technology and are carrying passengers at this moment. This is.
▶ 0:54:57Mr. Farrah: Areality for many americans the second thing that changed as we are no longer alone in the quest to have self-driving vehicles. We have strategic competitors, most notably china that are bound and determined to be the global leaders when it comes to autonomous vehicles. Without a federal framework we are asking innovators to fight with one hand behind her back. That is why it is important to pass a federal policy framework. You touched on safety.
▶ 0:55:24Mr. Farrah: This is the driving force behind our injury -- our industries. We reject we have to accept all the fatalities, except the injuries, except millions of americans being held back because vehicles are not accessible enough. What we are trying to do with safety is overcome human error, trying to overcome the things that chairman cruz talked about, the big drivers of fatalities in this country.
▶ 0:55:48Sen. Blackburn: Mr. moravy and Mr. peña, I know you all are working on safety. We talked about this yesterday and we met and thank you again for your time. One of the things people are concerned about is the amount of consumer data.
▶ 0:56:19Sen. Blackburn: They like the safety, they want you to innovate, they want to lower fatalities, but they are saying what kind of data are you getting. How are you all collecting and storing and working through the data? Mr. moravy?
▶ 0:56:39Mr. Moravy: Thank you, senator blackburn and I appreciate the time we had yesterday to discuss . With regards to the data we collect to improve products, it occurs when you select an advanced driving system.
▶ 0:56:58Mr. Moravy: We aggravate -- aggregate the data to ensure customer privacy and then use the small data collected to create generalizations about individuals scenarios we can improve.
▶ 0:57:12Sen. Blackburn: You do not store the data from the car? You anonymize the data?
▶ 0:57:20Mr. Moravy: That's correct.
▶ 0:57:22Sen. Blackburn: You are focused on U.S. production. How are you dealing with supply chains? Mr. peña, I'm coming to you also after his answer.
▶ 0:57:34Mr. Moravy: Tesla produces four of the five top U.S.-made cars and we have always been committed to building locally. We produce all the vehicles sold in the U.S. by tesla in the U.S. we have facilities in texas and fremont, california that do that. We work hard with our supply chain to ensure they are also local to the U.S. and north america. Over 90 5% of parts come from north america. Dr.
▶ 0:58:04Mr. Moravy: Peña: we are not a vehicle manufacturer. We designed and build autonomous driving systems, hardware and software. We then installed onto a variety of vehicle platforms at our factory in arizona.
▶ 0:58:20Sen. Blackburn: But are you affected by supply chains? Is that a constriction? Dr. peña: we like to have a stable supply of vehicles. It does affect us.
▶ 0:58:32Sen. Blackburn: That is what I wanted to know. Thank you. >> thank you, senator. Senator peters now for his questions.
▶ 0:58:41Sen. Peters: As the senator from michigan I have long focused on issues related to autonomous vehicles. I believe today congress cannot continue to stand on the sidelines when it comes to av's. We know this technology is a huge part of the future of the global automotive industry.
▶ 0:59:10Sen. Peters: Right now, as has been said, china is investing heavily in dominating the autonomous vehicle market. It is absolutely imperative we take action to ensure that american innovation in american standards lead the way on the world stage and not china. It is a matter of protecting good paying american jobs. Congress cannot be silent on a technology that will literally shape the future of mobility.
▶ 0:59:38Sen. Peters: Automotive jobs have been of the heart of my state of michigan and our manufacturing economy for over a century. We need to ensure the job stay here in america. Finally, as has been said, this technology will save lives. More than 100 americans die on our roadways each and every day as we sit here today. We must do everything we can to bring that number as close to zero as possible. That requires building trust.
▶ 1:00:09Sen. Peters: Americans deserve to know these vehicles will deliver safer streets and that federal regulators have laid out clear rules of the road. It is up to congress to do something. That is why I'm calling on our charming and my colleagues on the committee to work with me to make that a reality. I'm calling for a bipartisan av title in the next service transportation bill. It can't wait any longer. I have a couple questions.
▶ 1:00:36Sen. Peters: Professor smith, if it's both avoidable and unacceptable to have 40,000 deaths on our roads every year. I believe we need to harness every solution to that problem, as evidenced by the hearing I held on this issue last year and I believe that av's are a part of the answer. Even autonomous vehicles will not be perfect. We know accidents will occur.
▶ 1:01:00Sen. Peters: We should assess those incidents against the larger backdrop of our extremely dangerous roads today. In your opinion, how should legislators approach the idea of relative safety when it comes to av's and why should we not be satisfied with the default level of danger we see on our roads today?
▶ 1:01:21Mr. Smith: Thank you, senator peters. The current level of carnage is horrific and preventable. We know how to prevent it. With automated driving we have two different frameworks that are intentional. One is the car framework. Can we say when one person? Any crash is a failure and unacceptable. Automated driving is essentially the challenge of shifting from that first paradigm to the second.
▶ 1:01:54Mr. Smith: In assessing the safety of any crash we could ask, did the system perform at least as well as a human driver in the equivalent scenario? To perform as well is a competing technology? To perform better than the last one that failed? We can have static standards. The bar has to keep going up.
▶ 1:02:13Sen. Peters: I thank you for the answer but I would like to enter into the record an op-ed from a neurologist published in the new york times about his experience with car accident victims and how recent peer-reviewed av data is too promising not to pursue. It is important and I would like to enter them to the record. >> without objection.
▶ 1:02:33Sen. Peters: One reason congress must act on legislation is because av's represent a huge part of the future of the U.S. automotive industry. We need to not only make sure av technology is developed here but make sure the vehicles and their sensor suites are manufactured in america as well. Michigan auto workers have led the nation, the U.S. automotive industry internationally competitive. I believe they can do the same for autonomous vehicles.
▶ 1:03:03Sen. Peters: Waymo does import from china to pair with that software stack. I'm glad you are moving away from this partnership. How can congress better ensure av companies prioritize U.S. manufacturing and union labor when it comes to building the vehicles hardware the future? Is this something that aligns with your company's vision of the future? Dr. peña: we design and build autonomous driving systems right here in america.
▶ 1:03:32Sen. Peters: We use a variety of platforms when we all stopped and autonomous driving system under this platforms in our factory in arizona.
▶ 1:03:47Sen. Peters: Can I just have a question for the record? Mr. farrah, some of your automotive manufacturing members, including michigan's own general motors and ford are driving consumer acceptance by introducing consumers the high levels of autonomy in their personal vehicles, including hands-free highway driving and more.
▶ 1:04:13Sen. Peters: That includes the goal of introducing level three hands off, eyes off driving technology for consumers to deploy when they choose. Autonomous technologies are delivering safety benefits in personally on consumer vehicles today. Neither nhtsa nor congress has established a regulatory framework for level three systems. What do you think of the greatest regulatory gaps today for congress to fill for level three deployment? I can enter that for the record.
▶ 1:04:44Mr. Farrah: I would be glad to elaborate on the response for the record and level three is an important piece of automotive technology. I don't want to miss the opportunity to thank you for your past efforts on behalf of the industry. >> we welcome any other responses afterwards as well. I yield to myself. I appreciate the witnesses being here in this topic.
▶ 1:05:08Mr. Farrah: It's fair to say there is broad agreement that congress must lead on this. Professor smith, I will give you an asterisk where you can play a role as well and it's a worthy conversation. The real question is not whether or not we should lead but how we should lead without sacrificing data privacy, without sacrificing transparency, without sacrificing innovation.
▶ 1:05:39Mr. Farrah: With that in mind I would like to turn to the data privacy part of this. Mr. peña, I was in los angeles this week and I noticed the number of your vehicles that I saw. Do you know how many you have in a market like los angeles? Dr. peña: I don't know or have an exact number but there are a few hundred. >> enough you see the monastery corner. You know how many cameras per vehicle are part of that? Dr.
▶ 1:06:08Mr. Farrah: Peña: I think we have 29 cameras approximately.
▶ 1:06:12Sen. Peters: Are any of those internal question mark Dr. peña: we have cameras internally to help the riders when they need it. >> if you times of a couple of hundred vehicles, the potential for data collection -- that was my first impression when I saw the vehicle go by with those cameras. The amount of data that potentially could be collected is staggering. My first question for you and then Mr.
▶ 1:06:40Sen. Peters: Moravy, what internal policies do you currently have for data privacy? Dr. peña: we have strong privacy protections for our riders. We all share personally identifiable information. When we are driving, we collect information to make our waymo driver better. That is the only purpose of collecting data as we drive through our cities.
▶ 1:07:07Sen. Peters: >> is a former mayor, I would be approached with someone with an accident and they wanted to go get the traffic information for my recordings on the lights. Is that a scenario that is possible where law enforcement will come to you and say you were going to the intersection, share with us your recordings of what happened at that intersection? Dr. peña: we would only comply with a valid legal order.
▶ 1:07:36Sen. Peters: Even at that point we would review it to ensure it is not too broad. If we believe it is too broad, we can object as well. >> Mr. moravy?'s
▶ 1:07:50Mr. Moravy: We do collect a bit of data. We have eight or nine cameras in our vehicles today. All the data is from consumers is an opt in policy but it is aggregated and optimized when it comes to our service are reviewed.
▶ 1:08:10Mr. Moravy: To your point about whether or not we comply with federal or state authorities' request for data, tesla has been doing that first almost 15 years now with our vehicles and the recordings they taken data recorders and cameras whenever there is a pertinent legal order to do so. >> I don't want to overstate that point.
▶ 1:08:36Mr. Moravy: More of my point is the vast amount of data, particularly with 29 cameras collected through a community, and have we thought through that data and what to do with it? Mr. farrah, is the industry ready for this data privacy question and are you prepared or is the industry prepared for future legislation to discuss how we deal with data privacy?
▶ 1:09:00Mr. Farrah: Thank you very much. You would need to get a valid order from a law enforcement agency or court to comply with that and if it was appropriately overbroad that is something the company would certainly evaluate. We are eager to participate as congress in this committee takes on future data privacy discussions. We want to be a part of the process.
▶ 1:09:23Chair Curtis: We have good actors at the table today but as the industry grows we will have people who may not take good care of that data. You have data breaches. It is something that is very important for us to consider. We talked briefly before the hearing about utah. Utah would love to be a leader on this. We have the olympics coming.
▶ 1:09:46Chair Curtis: Could you briefly discuss traffic congestion and how a state like utah might use autonomous vehicles to deal with less traffic on the roads and the impact that could have on the state like utah?
▶ 1:10:00Mr. Farrah: I'm a huge fan of your state. Utah is one of the 26 states with a deployment statute so you are well-positioned, including for the upcoming olympics. In terms of congestion, we are trying to give more transportation options. In many cases, in salt lake, this might be a solution for moving people through city centers in a more effective way. That is something on a city by city basis we are trying to get new optimality.
▶ 1:10:28Chair Curtis: I will yield to our ranking member for her questions.
▶ 1:10:32Sen. Cantwell: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Professor smith, you talked about trust and faith and building that over a period of time. The information age is delivering a lot of change. Unless you're going understood software should -- as they should have understood software.
▶ 1:10:53Sen. Cantwell: I'm not sure nhtsa understands the challenges either but we need to have people when it comes to ai or privacy in the federal government who are going to understand the issues. Otherwise, we are not going to do a good job. That is part of building that trust and faith you are talking about. You are going to continue to repeat issues. Not everything is going to be known.
▶ 1:11:17Sen. Cantwell: Again, there's a difference between a beta program and a large-scale program and something else happens. I'm trying to get to this point. We have these -- we have an autopilot. A constituent of mine was run over on a motorcycle. He was run over by a tesla car on autopilot. The family saying it did not detect the motorcycle.
▶ 1:11:45Sen. Cantwell: This is not like blaming it on the people who were supposed to be in the car, although that is a big debate. Did the term autopilot mean something to the users of tesla and are they responsible? There was a case in florida where they basically are saying no, it is negligence because of where the autopilot was marketed. I'm assuming, Mr. peña, you like this parting arbitration you use are under now -- your users are under now.
▶ 1:12:16Sen. Cantwell: That they sign an agreement and something goes wrong. Dr. peña: could you describe --
▶ 1:12:23Sen. Peters: For waymo, if there is a dispute about what happened you now are in a binding arbitration with the manufacturer, with waymo, over the results of those cases. I'm trying to get the liability here. You approve that now, correct? Dr. peña: that is not my area of expertise. Mine is primarily av safety but I would be happy get back to you.
▶ 1:12:49Sen. Cantwell: These are like binding arbitration contracts.
▶ 1:12:54Mr. Smith: It is very common in the industry, yes.
▶ 1:12:58Sen. Cantwell: We will not take this common safety -- standard and software and now apply at the cars. We are just not going to do that. I'm not going to do that and I'm not going to allow that to happen. I'm not signing a barb --a binding arbitration agreement with waymo and say I cannot sue them, just stuck in binding arbitration. This congress is not going to be that either. The senate has already taken action to be more aggressive.
▶ 1:13:25Sen. Cantwell: Where do we go with this issue of building the trust that you are talking about and showing -- Mr. farrah says he does not believe in preempting state and that's a good thing. How do we get this to the point where there is true liability so people will build products and be accountable for them?
▶ 1:13:48Mr. Smith: Thank you. We all do sign these agreements every day agreeing to arbitration and we don't realize it. We don't realize it matters until we are hurt and we are the victims and then we realize we can't use the courts. No one else realizes it because arbitration is often secret, therefore the information is not coming out. You talked about trustworthiness.
▶ 1:14:17Mr. Smith: The companies in this field are necessarily saying to regulators and the public trust us. That needs to, substance, with great power comes great responsibility. They need to say here is what we are doing, here is why we believe it is safe and here is why you can trust us. That he's to be interrogated by well resourced officials.
▶ 1:14:42Mr. Smith: The idea that our automated driving office could fit in a mcdonald's or our defects agency could fit in a warehouse is astounding to me for a country of the size and sophistication.
▶ 1:14:51Sen. Cantwell: I think the chairman of the committee berated the then ceo of boeing, dave calhoun, for breaking that trust and faith. Kelli ward berg is trying to reestablish it and say it has to be on good engineering and a constant accountability.
▶ 1:15:12Sen. Cantwell: I do believe figuring out the federal responsibility so that we can have predictability and certainty, but it has to come with some liability. It just does. When you look at these instances of nhtsa playing this role in the past, heading, changing our culture.
▶ 1:15:32Sen. Cantwell: We are trying to change the culture of the faa right now but you have to change the culture when companies just want to go along and keep promoting airbags that don't work, that's a problem. You have to get rid of and change the culture. I look forward to hearing more about what you think that federal framework looks like. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:15:54Sen. Cantwell: Chair c1 >> the patchwork of state laws means the driver was a beast can be deployed commercially in texas, arizona and california.
▶ 1:16:23Sen. Cantwell: But they are not allowed in new york, massachusetts and vermont where a driver must be present. Or in the case of california, av operational data must be turned over to regulators but not in florida or michigan. From tesla's perspective, what risks does this regulatory gap create and why it is a clear national framework necessary sooner rather than later?
▶ 1:16:47Mr. Moravy: I appreciate the opportunity to answer this question. The original equipment manufacturer of fear of the autonomous vehicles, a patchwork of state regulations really presents a lot of uncertainty for us in producing those vehicles.
▶ 1:17:08Mr. Moravy: When we talk about regulations, it is important that we homogenize them for purpose built a visa so that we have certainty and we have a path forward that is consistent across all 50 states. >> Dr. pena, when incidents occur with av's, they are highly scrutinized because the technology is so different.
▶ 1:17:33Mr. Moravy: Recently there have been incidents involving school buses in austin and a child in santa monica, california. What safeguards has waymo implemented and how do you verify that these changes will protect school bus riders moving forward? Mr. peña: thank you Mr. chairman. We take those incidents very seriously.
▶ 1:17:59Mr. Moravy: Safety is our top priority, especially the safety of children and pedestrians. We are developing fixes to address those events and we have already incorporated many changes to our software to dramatically improve our performance and we are working with the austin independent school district to collect data, different patterns and different conditions. We are also incorporating those learnings into our system.
▶ 1:18:31Mr. Moravy: We do to safely navigate thousands of school bus encounters every single week and we are continuously learning and improving because the work on safety is never done. >> in the report of waymo striking the child in santa monica, it indicates the av quickly slow down from 17 miles an hour to six miles an hour. What lessons can be drawn from what occurred and how might that have been different if a human has been driving?
▶ 1:19:02Mr. Moravy: Mr. peña: Mr. chairman, we are grateful that the younger was able to walk away from the scene. Our analysis indicates that our technology was able to the young girl she emerged from behind a tall suv, brake hard, reduced speed and reduce on.
▶ 1:19:29Mr. Moravy: We have developed an analysis and we found that the waymo driver would have responded faster than a human driver. In this case, I believe we mitigated harm. >> a question for both Mr. peña and Mr. moravy. What are the safety benefits of widespread adoption of av's?
▶ 1:20:04Mr. Moravy: What human lives do we think can be saved?
▶ 1:20:08Mr. Moravy: The auto industry has made improvements since they were first in place on the road, getting is down to 30,000 deaths per year but in the last 20 years that number has stayed pretty flat. I have been involved in some form of automotive safety in my career for the last 25 years whether it is car structure, airbags, seatbelts, autonomous driving systems.
▶ 1:20:35Mr. Moravy: The next big jump we have in reducing the number from 40,000 to hopefully a day where it is zero is autonomous driving. Simply put, an autonomous driver , the system and computer that operates it, does not sleep, does not blink and does not get tired. Those are the real opportunities we have to face against this serious crisis we have on our roads today.
▶ 1:21:04Sen. Cruz: I am not sure I would use the litany from the terminator to describe your av's . Mr. peña, same question. Mr. peña: we have demonstrated our performance. Our data shows we are 10 times less likely to be involved in a serious injury collision as compared to human drivers in the cities where we operate.
▶ 1:21:28Sen. Cruz: The data also shows we are 12 times less likely to be involved in a pedestrian injury collision in the cities where we operate. I think we are making a difference already.
▶ 1:21:44Sen. Cruz: There is quite a bit of concern that the advent of av's may jeopardize jobs. Tesla has demonstrated that av's can produce an awful lot of high-paying jobs, that there is a strong positive job story. Share with this committee how many new jobs has tesla's system already created a texas.
▶ 1:22:12Mr. Moravy: We build all of our av's in texas. We have invested on a purpose built line that will operate 1200 jobs per shift and one fully ramped up to 5000 jobs, and that does not include our supply base which is also largely here in the exponential factor that it would have 10 times that.
▶ 1:22:32Sen. Cruz: I have also received outreach from 33 stakeholders who support his autonomous vehicles federal framework. I ask unanimous that these be entered into the record without objection, so ordered. Senator kim.
▶ 1:22:54Rep. Kim: Thank you. Thank you for all of you coming out to this important conversation. Before I came to congress I spent years and years working on cyber security, national security related issues. As we talked through safety and control, I want to to get a sense from you where we are at when it comes to their capacity to protect ourselves from cybersecurity attacks. We are worried about the growing number of devices we have that are connected to the internet.
▶ 1:23:25Rep. Kim: I have to say at the top of the list I do have concerns about autonomous vehicles. I wanted to get a sense from you what is true and what is not. Maybe Dr. peña, we can start with you. What levels of concern have you had and what steps are you are taking to try to prevent the ability for someone else to be able to access data as well as take control of controls and features of the vehicles. Dr. peña: cybersecurity is a very important part of our safety framework.
▶ 1:23:54Rep. Kim: It is something that we take very seriously. We take a number of measures to identify vulnerabilities, perform risk assessments and mitigate those vulnerabilities. One example is by design our safety critical systems in the vehicle are protected from external connections. So you cannot actually hack into it, connect to it and drive it remotely. We do design, we do testing. We do a pretty extensive evaluation of cybersecurity and mitigations.
▶ 1:24:24Rep. Kim: With your fleet have you had any instances where someone was able to access data, features or control of any of the vehicles? Dr. peña: not that I am aware of, senator.
▶ 1:24:38Sen. Kim: Mr. moravy I want to ask you a similar question. How are you able to protect your consumers, your drivers from cyber attacks and have you had any instances of cyber attacks upon the vehicles that were able to access data, features or gain control?
▶ 1:24:59Mr. Moravy: Thank you for the question. I will quote our ceo when we started on this endeavor. He said one of his biggest fears was the possibility that someone could do as you described, take over an autonomous vehicles and do something nefarious. Since that day we have committed to making sure that never happens. We have many layers of security within our system similar to what Dr. peña said.
▶ 1:25:27Mr. Moravy: Our driving controls are in a central layer that cannot be accessed from outside the vehicle. In addition our security protocols ensure that no firmware can be downloaded to the vehicle. In order to sign a firmware, two people have to sign off with individual keys to make sure that the encrypted firmware can be uploaded to the vehicle safely.
▶ 1:25:55Mr. Moravy: To answer your question bluntly about has anyone ever enabled to take over our vehicles, the answer is no. We actively participate in hacking events, paying people to try to get into our vehicles. We are the only automotive manufacturer that does it.
▶ 1:26:18Sen. Kim: I think we are all in agreement we want to make sure that answer continues to be no in terms of the ability to be able to access. What are you seeing in terms of across the industry as well as what we should be thinking about here in terms of setting standards to be able to ensure that we can look at american people in the eye and say that this is not a scenario that can happen. You don't have to worry about this.
▶ 1:26:41Mr. Farrah: I appreciate the question. Is the company controls and that is a natural way of keeping out certain cybersecurity intrusions. From our perspective, we want americans to understand that they can trust these vehicles and understand that this is a huge priority for each of the companies there. If we don't have that trust, the technology does not get developed and deployed. That's not what we want to see.
▶ 1:27:09Mr. Farrah: There is a massive incentive on the part of the company to do everything they can to address that security intrusion and that is what we have a track record of doing.
▶ 1:27:16Sen. Kim: One last question for Dr. peña on a different topic. From new jersey, a very densely populated area. As I'm talking to people from my state, how do you explain deployment to a densely populated area, what types of markers, what metrics do you need before you can say this is safe to deploy these different areas? Dr.
▶ 1:27:37Sen. Kim: Peña: before we enter any market, we do an extensive evaluation and test of the different features, different road types. We do analysis simulations and we also perform testing with our vehicles with what we call autonomous driving specialists behind the wheel prior to us removing the human driver. We take our time. We do it very methodically. And we have a very strong safety framework.
▶ 1:28:09Sen. Kim: All of those arguments need to be presented to a safety board of which I am part of. If we can prove that deployment with sufficient evidence that the system has been demonstrated to perform safely in that city.
▶ 1:28:22Sen. Kim: Thank you so much. I yield back. >> senator moreno.
▶ 1:28:29Sen. Moreno: Dr. moravy, if a tesla robotaxi is in an accident and there is a question about liability that it was software or possible hardware, who would accept liability?
▶ 1:28:44Mr. Moravy: Thank you for the question. Of course in the unlikely event that the software error occurred in the autonomous driving system, we would take liability for that much in the same way that a driver takes liability in the current vehicle system.
▶ 1:29:05Sen. Moreno: So it would be no different. Dr. peña, how about waymo? Dr. peña: likewise.
▶ 1:29:12Sen. Moreno: You would take that liability and you would not look to skirt the protections we have now which is obviously some sort of terms of conditions that nobody reads that is 17 pages long that you accept. In other words, a driver does not have binding arbitration against somebody that they hit. You would not be in favor of that? Dr. peña: senator, that is not my area of expertise. I would have to discuss with my team and get back to you.
▶ 1:29:39Sen. Moreno: Ok. That's not a great answer. Are you familiar with that seven years ago president trump issued a national emergency around foreign adversaries accessing our critical infrastructure and putting in place something that we call the connected vehicle rule, are you familiar with that? Dr. peña: yes.
▶ 1:30:00Sen. Moreno: Dr. moravy, you're familiar with that as well?
▶ 1:30:04Mr. Moravy: Yes.
▶ 1:30:05Sen. Moreno: Argue in favor of the connected vehicle rule?
▶ 1:30:09Mr. Moravy: Any policy that regulates and promotes U.S. security is a good policy.
▶ 1:30:15Sen. Moreno: How much of your vehicle is made in america?
▶ 1:30:18Mr. Moravy: Over 95% of our vehicles are made with north american parts. All of our vehicles that are made in the U.S. are sold in the U.S..
▶ 1:30:26Sen. Moreno: So you get to the point soon that 100% U.S. content?
▶ 1:30:40Mr. Moravy: That's correct.
▶ 1:30:41Sen. Moreno: Dr. peña, how about you? Dr. peña: our autonomous driving system is designed and built in the U.S. and reinstall on several different platforms. We do support the connected vehicle rule.
▶ 1:30:53Sen. Moreno: You said in your testimony that we are locked in a race with china but it seems like we are getting in bed with china. The cars you are looking to bring into the united states are chinese automobiles owned by chinese auto companies, are they not? Dr. peña: we use a variety of platforms.
▶ 1:31:14Sen. Moreno: Right now you used one that is made in austria. The car you are looking at is from a chinese company, is that accurate? Dr. peña: yes.
▶ 1:31:24Sen. Moreno: , wooded venting to you with interest over trying to be met by having a company allow chinese made automobiles to enter the U.S. market which are currently not allowed to enter the market? It seems like a very backdoor way of bypassing the connected vehicle rule. Dr. peña: those chinese vehicles have no connectivity.
▶ 1:31:49Sen. Moreno: What we do is we install our autonomous driving system right here in america and we do not share any information whatsoever. I feel that having a stable auto supply is actually an ambulance to scale more quickly and more efficiently which is in fact helping us retain or lead over china and even extending it.
▶ 1:32:12Sen. Moreno: Giving a natural market to a chinese company to ship those cars is making us better and creating more jobs for americans? That is completely ridiculous. Let me ask another question. What is the price different between waymo and uber? What is the price difference? Dr. peña: it really varies by market.
▶ 1:32:38Sen. Moreno: 1%, 100%? Dr. peña: it varies so much that I cannot give you an accurate answer.
▶ 1:32:45Sen. Moreno: I will give you the answer. It is almost exactly identical. What you are really doing is taking the labor cost out of your business model. I am a capitalist. Being able to say we figured out a way to save a ton of money which is to get rid of the human driver of the vehicle so we can make more profit. Let me ask you another question. You another question. Your own, by google, correct -- you are owned by google, correct? Dr. peña: alphabet is our parent company.
▶ 1:33:11Sen. Moreno: Will you use this aggregate data to target advertising toward users? Dr. peña: that is not our plan.
▶ 1:33:17Sen. Moreno: That would not be any situation where you serve up different ads, people could use the service and get that data that could allow them to target ads towards users? Dr. peña: that is not the plan.
▶ 1:33:31Sen. Moreno: Is that plan subject to change? Dr. peña: I am not privy to that.
▶ 1:33:35Sen. Moreno: Thank you. I am out of time. >> senator lujan.
▶ 1:33:43Sen. Lujan: Thank you. Many of you may be aware of some legislation that I was proud to work on years ago with some of our republican colleagues. We got together and came up with some legislation that would require technology in vehicles that would prevent drunk driving deaths. I want to remind my colleagues that when I was in my early 20's I was hit head on by a drunk driver. Thank god I'm here today.
▶ 1:34:10Sen. Lujan: As many as 10,000 people, 11,000, 12,000 people lose their lives every year because of this. One of the questions that I have in this particular space is around the many types of anti-drunk driving technology that already exist. There is a recent announcement from a company that will provide a japanese oem that includes alcohol impairment detection.
▶ 1:34:41Sen. Lujan: The current administrator recently warned, "there is a very major difference between an advanced driver assistance system and an automated system. The system you can buy in your vehicle today with the very rare exception as a driver assist system. If you have an extra cocktail and you get behind the wheel and put it in hands-free mode, you are a drunk driver.
▶ 1:35:06Sen. Lujan: I want you to be pulled over and I want you to be removed from the road." that is what jonathan norton said. Can you explain why self driving cars requires a person to be alert and able to safely take over the vehicle operations?
▶ 1:35:23Mr. Farrah: Thank you for the question but particularly for your work on the help drunk driving act. That is incredible to be able to do something that will eventually save tens of thousands of lives every single year. What you are describing is the fact that we have technologies that can do that. We have technologies that can drive a vehicle.
▶ 1:35:49Mr. Farrah: Some of the same ones and other ones are able to detect if a human is actually capable of safely driving the vehicle. As you point out, certain applications of driving automation in that a human might still be able to or even need to drive for a portion of the trip. Not the kind of robotaxis we might talk about but features on productive vehicles.
▶ 1:36:17Mr. Farrah: As part of the safe design of the system, the manufacturer needs to know that when the system says, human, drive, that the human is in a position to do so. That they are not sleeping, that they are not drug but that they are able to reengage. A lot of that is the ability to understand directly and indirectly if the human is able to drive.
▶ 1:36:37Sen. Lujan: What technology does tesla letters to assure a driver is alert, not impaired, distracted and ready to take over the vehicle at a moments notice? Isn't necessary to determine -- isn't it necessary to determine if the driver is able to take over the vehicle?
▶ 1:37:00Mr. Moravy: Currently for our self-driving feature that is deployed, it is an l2 system that requires driver supervision. In those vehicles we use a variety of detections to include -- conclude that the driver is attentive including eye monitoring and other bits of information to ensure that they are being attentive.
▶ 1:37:21Sen. Lujan: When they set standards to detect impaired driving with a halt act, do you believe tesla will be able to implement this technology in the near future?
▶ 1:37:33Mr. Moravy: We have a good relationship with nhtsa. We will gladly ensure that we comply with them.
▶ 1:37:48Sen. Lujan: Do you support implementation of the halt drunk driving act? Dr. peña: this is one of my goals as well, to eliminate impaired driving. We support it. This is one of the benefits of our vehicle. We never drive drunk, never distracted.
▶ 1:38:06Sen. Lujan: Dr. peña, you are a systems engineer by trade, correct? Dr. peña: yes, I am.
▶ 1:38:17Sen. Lujan: Can you explain the role of redundant systems and critical systems? Dr. peña: absolutely. Having redundancy allows you to have high reliability and intervals of safety. You have to plan for the unexpected so if some of your systems malfunction, you want a backup system to come into play to allow you to continue to travel safely.
▶ 1:38:37Sen. Lujan: One of those tools is sensor fusion. Can we get that entered into the record to get the definition. As my time expires, can you explain or explain o wife tesla -- why tesla has chosen to eliminate those systems?
▶ 1:39:03Mr. Moravy: Are human roads are designed to be operated by pure vision and I reject the notion that we do not have redundant. We have nine cameras. In that sense, we have redundancy across the vision system.
▶ 1:39:19Sen. Lujan: Would you say that when elon musk, your ceo, said that they reduce safety due to sensor, do you agree with that? If you don't want to answer, you don't have to because I don't want to compromise whatever your next endeavor is.
▶ 1:39:35Mr. Moravy: We believe strongly that we can solve all self-driving needs with vision alone.
▶ 1:39:41Sen. Lujan: I know that when we talk about these self-driving things, there seems to be unanimous agreement, democrats and republicans that cameras will be all of this stuff works to keep everybody safe. I'm hoping we can get more. One thing I did not ask is as we talk about all of these rules around self driving cars, before you can get to full self-driving, congress has to take action. Mr.
▶ 1:40:11Sen. Lujan: Moravy, will you commit that tesla -- I don't want to call them salespeople, but the people at your facilities, or people pick up the cars they order, to stop telling people who are purchasing tesla that they can order a hand weight from amazon to trick the vehicle? Will you commit to sending order demanding that it stops?
▶ 1:40:39Sen. Lujan: If you don't know what is going on, I can tell you and if you want to see a video, I can show you one.
▶ 1:40:43Mr. Moravy: I am not aware of the specifics you have but we inform our staff to educate our customers are the features of self-driving and functionality.
▶ 1:40:51Sen. Lujan: Mr. chairman, I will follow-up with you on this. You don't have to do something publicly but to teach people how to trick the rules, to put a little weight and if you search on amazon, you can get one on amazon for 10 blocks. You can put it on the wheel and it treats the vehicle like your hands are on it. Tell them to stop doing that. I hope we can work on that one. It does not have to be a big thing but just tell them to stop it. Thank you. >> senator schmitt.
▶ 1:41:20Sen. Schmitt: Thank you. These kinds of hearings are fascinating and I try to bring the perspective of folks back home, what they really want to understand because this is emerging and not going away. Missouri is going through its own process right now of figuring out what sort of rules of the road for lack of a better term that they want to have in place.
▶ 1:41:43Sen. Schmitt: One of the things that is most exciting about it and I know we have some advocates here is the opportunity that it provides for individuals with disabilities to get more places and have that kind of connectivity. They don't have that right now where it is much more challenging for them. I suppose the nature of the questions I get from back home which I want to post to you now is related to safety. Obviously it is a new technology.
▶ 1:42:13Sen. Schmitt: People have concerns or questions. Mr. moravy, in your testimony you make the argument that tesla 's supervised system already performed significantly better than the U.S. average driving 5.1 million miles before a major commission -- collision. What in that analysis, with independent validation do you rely on for those results?
▶ 1:42:40Mr. Moravy: Thank you, senator. We publish all of our data regarding vehicle safety yearly in a safety report and impact report and online on our safety page to show the number of miles we have driven. We regularly meet with regulators to review.
▶ 1:43:04Sen. Schmitt: Dr. peña, in december of 2025 there was a power outage in san francisco where traffic lights went down and the vehicles, your vehicles there were just sort of frozen. What changes are you making to the software that you guys use and decision making logic to ensure that those kinds of situations are not a problem. This is the kind of stuff that people get concerned about.
▶ 1:43:35Sen. Schmitt: Dr. peña: it was a widespread power outage with many traffic lights as he said and they disabled. It was the sheer number of traffic lights that created a challenge for us in terms of delays and intersections. In a way we tuned the system to be very conservative and what we're doing is we are updating our software.
▶ 1:44:01Sen. Schmitt: We have already done it, to provide more context about a regional power outage so that we can more confidently traverse those lights. We are also updating our procedures and working with law enforcement to ensure that we are communicating and collaborating.
▶ 1:44:19Sen. Schmitt: Mr. moravy, from your perspective when we talk about certain things happening in this country, bringing back manufacturing, not relying on other places for the things that we need that are critical whether it is iphones and certainly the auto industry in this country has been the gold standard for a very long time. From your perspective, what is at stake in this competition with china for autonomous vehicles? What happens if we lose?
▶ 1:44:53Mr. Moravy: As you mentioned, tesla has committed to U.S. manufacturing and we have been for many years. We are in a precipice and a competition with china to develop autonomous vehicles. I think we have leaders here in the world today that are actually making the best autonomous vehicles on the market.
▶ 1:45:15Mr. Moravy: We need to maintain that leadership to transition autonomous vehicles into a state where the faa has with boeing come the gold standard of the future of aviation some 80 years ago. If we take that same leadership and put forth an av framework, we will have that leadership where the best american companies will make the most av's for the world to follow.
▶ 1:45:43Sen. Schmitt: To put a finer point on it, it matters not just for here. To see what china does worldwide with their ev's. They subsidize them, dump them in a market and take over a whole continent because they wipe out an entire industry and all you are left with our chinese ev's.
▶ 1:46:04Sen. Schmitt: If you think about the data that can be gathered from having av's all around the world as roving sensors for our chief adversary, that is really an underrated aspect of this competition. Finally with the four seconds I have remaining, between you guys, how should -- we were talking about this federal framework that is a patchwork of the states but how should the federal framework account for local differences?
▶ 1:46:36Sen. Schmitt: There are going to be differences and how do you minimize it, what is important, how do you guys see it?
▶ 1:46:42Mr. Farrah: I will briefly say this is an opportunity for federalism. States need to be involved in all this. At the same time the government needs to step up with regard to vehicle design, construction and performance. There is an opportunity to be involved together to make sure that we are winning this race.
▶ 1:47:01Sen. Schmitt: Thank you. >> the last point that senator schmitt raised about the dangers of chinese surveillance in ev's and chinese manufactured cars are very real concerns that I think all of us need to take very seriously. >> I want to start with a little-known fact about autonomous vehicles.
▶ 1:47:27Sen. Schmitt: When an av like a waymo encounters a situation on the road that it does not know how to handle, the waymo phones a human friend for help. The autonomous vehicle communities communicate with a so-called remote assistance operator, a human being who is located remotely and guides the self-driving car through the
▶ 1:47:58Sen. Schmitt: Difficult driving environment. Despite the crucial role that these operators play in autonomous vehicles safety, the public knows almost nothing about those people, those human beings. That is why yesterday I opened an investigation into all of the major autonomous vehicles companies demanding answers about their remote assistance operators. Dr. peña, let us learn more about waymo's remote assistance operation.
▶ 1:48:26Sen. Schmitt: I understand that waymo because these people live agents, these human beings. Does waymo employ humans located remotely to help vehicles navigate difficult driving scenarios? Dr. peña: senator, they provide guidance. They do not remotely drive the vehicles. As you stated, waymo asks for guidance in certain situations.
▶ 1:48:54Sen. Schmitt: It is an input but the waymo vehicle is always in charge of the dynamic driving tasks. That is one of the additional inputs. >> about the human helps to vehicle to navigate those difficult scenarios, is that correct? Dr. peña: yes. >> are all of these human operators located in the united states? Dr. peña:'sdr. Peña: some are in the U.S. and some are abroad.
▶ 1:49:25Sen. Schmitt: I don't have that number. I have to get back to you. >> is the majority abroad? Dr. peña: I don't have that number. >> that is very curious that you don't know that answer. Are some of these operators located outside the united states? Dr. peña: some are located abroad. >> for me, that is fairly shocking.
▶ 1:49:50Sen. Schmitt: Waymo has critical safety employees who may need to intervene in a split second if it encounters an unknown dangerous situation located in the united states but they are outside the united states. In what countries are these employees located? Dr. peña: the philippines. >> excuse me? Dr. peña: the philippines. >> so they are in the philippines. That is completely unacceptable.
▶ 1:50:22Sen. Schmitt: Here's why. Having people overseas influencing american vehicles as a safety issue. Information the operators received could be out of date. It could introduce a tremendous cybersecurity vulnerabilities. We don't know if these people have U.S. drivers licenses. Let's not forget waymo is trying to replace the jobs of hard-working taxi and ride-share drivers.
▶ 1:50:52Sen. Schmitt: Now you are saying of the human beings, the human jobs that remain in the system, you are shipping those jobs overseas. It is one thing when a taxi is replaced by an uber. It is another thing when the jobs go overseas which is what we are talking about. No one likes a backseat driver but a transatlantic backseat driver is downright dangerous in our country. I want to turn to another autonomous vehicle issue.
▶ 1:51:22Sen. Schmitt: When designing an autonomous vehicle, engineers to find where and the system is safe to drive. This operational limit is known as the operational design domain. Virtually every automaker with one notable exception restricts their driving systems to these domains. Dr. peña, does waymo restrict its vehicles to safe, pre-mapped operational design domains? Dr. peña: senator, we do.
▶ 1:51:54Sen. Schmitt: We have a very well divined operational design domain with different road types, weather, conditions. We ensure that our vehicles are capable. >> just to be clear, waymo include technological safeguards to prevent them from operating on certain roads. Let's go to tesla. Mr.
▶ 1:52:14Sen. Schmitt: Moravy, does tesla restrict its partially autonomous driving system such as full self-driving and autopilot save pre-mapped operational design domains?
▶ 1:52:31Mr. Moravy: Our drivers assistance system in our vehicles can be operated in all public roads. On the other hand, our fully autonomous solution in austin is geo-fenced to a limited area.
▶ 1:52:49Mr. Moravy: >> what tesla is doing, unlike waymo, tesla does not have technology that prevents drivers from triggering the full self-drive and autopilot in unsafe conditions.
▶ 1:53:09Mr. Moravy: From my perspective that is outrageous because autopilot and full self-drive have already been involved in dozens of deaths because of tesla can enable these driving systems on any road in any conditions. By failing to follow the best practices of other av companies, tesla is putting american lives at risk and that is unconscionable.
▶ 1:53:35Mr. Moravy: That is why in december I introduced the staying or laying act which requires automakers to define where and when those driving systems are safe and restrict the driving systems to those conditions only. Tesla does not do that. Tesla's vehicles say full self-drive but really they are only partial full self-drive.
▶ 1:54:02Mr. Moravy: For the driver, that is very misleading to call something full self-drive when you cannot infect meaningfully use their technology without increasing the danger. We need to ensure that they are supervised by human drivers when they are using full self-drive. That is my message to tesla. You have to do that. Other companies do it. You have to do it as well or else we will continue to see a recurrence of these impacts. Thank you.
▶ 1:54:29Chair Cantwell: Thank you. Senator lummis.
▶ 1:54:35Rep. Lummis: Thank you Mr. chairman. Among the things that have happened in this hearing is the hearing -- human factor behind the wheel. Mr. moravy, you have spent your career involved in designing systems for automobiles both with drivers and without drivers, am I correct?
▶ 1:54:58Mr. Moravy: That is correct.
▶ 1:55:00Sen. Lummis: Could you tell me what things that you have worked on designing over your career have reduced deaths in automobiles.
▶ 1:55:16Mr. Moravy: The list is quite long so I will try not to belabor everyone here. But I have worked on systems related to crash safety, occupant restraints, autonomous driving systems, driving assistance systems, emergency braking and all of them have had some impact on saving lives.
▶ 1:55:35Sen. Lummis: Didn't it drop to a point where it plateaued?
▶ 1:55:39Mr. Moravy: If you follow the number of deaths on american roads, we make great strides as industries since the seven up until 2005 -- great strides in the industry up until 2005. My team and I we work every day to figure out ways to reduce it.
▶ 1:56:02Sen. Lummis: What made it plateaued? -- what made it plateaue -- what made it plateau?
▶ 1:56:13Mr. Moravy: There are a number of reasons but in the early 2000 's with the development of the smartphone and the distractions that that causes within a driving scenario, it has made it difficult for safety engineers like ourselves.
▶ 1:56:29Sen. Lummis: Texting and driving. It sounds to me like efforts have been made to help humans not kill themselves in cars but it reached a plateau because texting and driving and distracted driving is something that you cannot correct in a way that continues the decline of
▶ 1:57:01Sen. Lummis: Automobile deaths, am I correct?
▶ 1:57:01Mr. Moravy: I think that is a fair assessment.
▶ 1:57:05Sen. Lummis: One of the things that makes me excited about autonomous vehicles's it does provide another leap in our ability to prevent human error in automobile deaths, am I correct?
▶ 1:57:21Mr. Moravy: I would say that I believe it is the next giant step we can take as an industry.
▶ 1:57:27Sen. Lummis: Here is why I think it is so important that we work with nhtsa, that we have some national standards for autonomous vehicles. I think everybody here in this room, unless you are really young, knows somebody who and died -- who was driving drunk and died, who fell asleep at the wheel and died, who slipped on
▶ 1:57:57Sen. Lummis: Black ice and died, who were texting and got in an accident. These are so common in my state of wyoming where we are driving long distances alone. I was once asked what is the most important factor for running for political office in wyoming.
▶ 1:58:22Sen. Lummis: And I have always said it is the ability to drive long distances alone without falling asleep because we are campaigning one day and the next day we are in rock springs and the next day in cheyenne. So you are driving because it is retail politics. You have to get around. I am so ask about autonomous vehicles for a couple of reasons.
▶ 1:58:51Sen. Lummis: I have three grandsons all under the age of seven. Autonomous vehicles provides an avenue for them to get home at night when they have exercised poor judgment as human beings. I hope they do not exercised poor judgment, but they are boys and they might.
▶ 1:59:18Sen. Lummis: It also protects people who have driven and fallen asleep in wyoming because they are pushing themselves too far. This texting and driving things is this texting and driving things is something that terrifies us as parents. I am quickly entering the era where I might be a little old lady who wants the freedom to still be able to drive when maybe she should not.
▶ 1:59:49Sen. Lummis: And I just want a button in a car that if I don't know where I am or I am not as sharp as I was behind the wheel, that I can push a button in the car that says grocery store and another button that says, take me home. And the freedom that will give elderly people is such a comfort to me as I become an elderly people.
▶ 2:00:21Sen. Lummis: Mr. chairman, the work you are doing on this, I join you in being excited about it. I got to ride in a waymo in san francisco. There were two interesting things to me. One is how safe I felt. The other thing was when I pulled into the yard, how many jobs there were for people who were working on the cars. There are different jobs in the same industry.
▶ 2:00:48Sen. Lummis: What tesla is talking about doing with automobiles where all the parts are made in america and they are using U.S. lithium and other raw materials to make these cars, that is transformative. That is game changing for personal passenger vehicles. I just want to complement the people who are testifying today.
▶ 2:01:17Sen. Lummis: I think that the opportunities provided for human safety are unparalleled. And that the jobs that will be created within the same industry are a little different than the jobs that we have today in that industry. But they are jobs nonetheless and they are going to be good jobs. I am excited about this technology. I cannot wait.
▶ 2:01:44Sen. Lummis: If I ever get dementia, I want that little "take me home" button on a car. It is freedom for all people and safety for young people. I want to thank you all for what you are doing to advance the opportunity for those of us who want to get home safely. Mr.
▶ 2:02:05Sen. Lummis: Chairman, count me in on your efforts to create a federal standard below which you cannot fall, but that has the criteria nhtsa needs to move forward and help this industry grow in the united states. Thank you.
▶ 2:02:25Chair Cantwell: I will say at least for the next year you are in a good place for dementia, you are in the U.S. senate. I also want to encourage people to listen to senator lummis' excellent description of being a parent or a grandparent concern for the safety of young people and I think you are exactly right. Av's are a total game changer. I say this as the father of two teenage girls.
▶ 2:02:57Chair Cantwell: I am very concerned. I will not let my daughters go in an uber in my hometown. Four uber drivers were just indicted for sexually assaulting teenage girls in their card. I am thrilled for the day that I can send an av to take my girls where they need to go and I don't have to worry about a man in the front seat who might do something violent. There are a lot of parents who share exactly the concerns that I have.
▶ 2:03:29Chair Cantwell: That is an enormous safety improvement as well. Senator duckworth.
▶ 2:03:33Sen. Duckworth: Thank you Mr. chairman. I am also excited about the future of autonomous vehicles especially for those in the disability community. Unfortunately we as a nation have become known to the lives lost on our roads every year.
▶ 2:03:51Sen. Duckworth: But the federal government and the automotive industry share a failure to significantly reduce traffic fatalities and it must never be weaponized as an excuse to rush out designs that are nearly as deadly or perhaps slightly less deadly than the status quo. Let's not kid ourselves, will while self-driving technology is exciting, it has a wild to go and the regulatory framework is behind.
▶ 2:04:16Sen. Duckworth: I want to in the focus to her self driving cars have been massively hyped but prioritized, helping americans with inabilities lead more independent lives. Senator lummis touched on this. Everyone will hopefully live long enough to develop disabilities.
▶ 2:04:32Sen. Duckworth: I am somewhat skeptical because no matter how much lip service is paid by so-called autonomous vehicles, the reality is that all of you are dependent upon traditional oem's. The auto industry has not been proactive in deciding vehicles that have safety vehicles as a default. They treated as a luxury. Wheelchair users often pay double the price of the vehicle because of necessary aftermarket modifications.
▶ 2:05:02Sen. Duckworth: Mr. moravy I understand that tesla offers no model that is wheelchair accessible out of the factory. Is that correct?
▶ 2:05:12Mr. Moravy: Thank you for your service, Ms. duckworth on the point of accessibility, it is really important. If I may, certain regulations are adopted by nhtsa that limit the ability for us to provide accessible vehicles.
▶ 2:05:30Sen. Duckworth: So you don't have a single vehicle right now that is wheelchair accessible out of the factory?
▶ 2:05:36Mr. Moravy: No.
▶ 2:05:39Sen. Duckworth: Given your broad ambitions when you consider how much of the valuation is tied to future promises of widespread full self-driving, I am disappointed that not only does tesla not provide a wheelchair accessible model but the aftermarket conversion company does not even listed tesla among its common conversion platforms.
▶ 2:06:04Sen. Duckworth: I have a toyota minivan but I could actually purchase an accessible wheelchair platform from the factory when I purchased my car. Actually, when the v.a. Purchased my car. It is tesla working with any other mobility modifier to develop a specific common conversion platform for electric vehicles?
▶ 2:06:29Mr. Moravy: Thank you. Mostly we have had conversations in the past with companies you mentioned while converting many of our vehicles, I cannot speak for those companies in terms of their financial goals and what they choose to adopt. But we are committed with their future products to provide accessible transportation to everyone.
▶ 2:06:51Sen. Duckworth: Dr. peña, while waymo appears to be ahead of tesla when it comes to deploying a limited robotaxi service for wheelchair users, I am afraid that waymo is not that far of your competitor. What percentage of your current fleet is wheelchair accessible? Dr. peña: we do provide wheelchair accessible option. It is not fully autonomous. But I do not have a percentage for you.
▶ 2:07:21Sen. Duckworth: But we can get back to you with a specific number.
▶ 2:07:23Sen. Duckworth: How many of those can be used by a passenger in a wheelchair without human assistance? Dr. peña: currently we don't have a fully autonomous service --
▶ 2:07:35Sen. Duckworth: Beginning in 2020 the department of transportation began an inclusive design challenge despair of the invention of innovative design solutions and waymo was a semi finalist in that competition. Congratulations on that. As a member of the secure right coalition, I trust that waymo is seeking to add wheelchair automated systems to its fleets so you can get to that fully autonomous feature. Dr.
▶ 2:08:02Sen. Duckworth: Peña: we are not a vehicle manufacturer so we are looking for an oem who is able to meet our requirements for safe wheelchair accessibility fully autonomously and it has to meet our safety requirements first.
▶ 2:08:17Sen. Duckworth: What timeframe is that? By what date would a wheelchair user be able to request a waymo right featuring a universal system such as the automated wheelchair tied down and occupant restraint system that was designed by researchers at the university of michigan?
▶ 2:08:34Mr. Moravy: Senator, I do not have a timeline for you. We have not found an oem so I do not have a specific timeline for you.
▶ 2:08:46Sen. Duckworth: This is my point. Yes, we need to prioritize making sure autonomous vehicles move forward. I need to make sure that there are options available for people with disabilities and for whatever standard is applied, I think this happens during the development phase as you are looking for an oem.
▶ 2:09:14Sen. Duckworth: You need to find the most effective system that is cost-effective but we need to try to make it more universal. Will waymo continue working with other developing in this space, I am hyping indiana here. They developed life-size operational demonstration platforms known as the easy rider who need more support to bring these products to market. Dr.
▶ 2:09:43Sen. Duckworth: Peña: we would definitely like to explore those partnerships.
▶ 2:09:46Sen. Duckworth: Thank you. I want to make sure I want to emphasize how important this is for people with disabilities but it is also an opportunity for profitability for each of you. As my colleague from wyoming mentioned, baby boomers are aging. They have a car culture from the time they were teenagers. They want their cars. They want to give their cars well beyond the time when they can personally drive them. The demand is going to be there.
▶ 2:10:18Sen. Duckworth: We just need to make sure we can meet that demand in a safe way and if we do it in a way that allows baby boomers access to these vehicles, whether it is someone who is vision impaired him as someone who is hearing impaired, cognitively impaired, whether it is in a wheelchair, this is a market that has spending power and I urge you to keep them in mind as you move forward with your developments. Thank you.
▶ 2:10:41Chairman Cruz: Thank you. Senator young.
▶ 2:10:44Rep. Young: I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. I share the excitement and enthusiasm that many of my colleagues do for autonomous vehicles and their potential deployment.
▶ 2:10:57Rep. Young: I visited with a number of you and so many other stakeholders over recent years and consistently tried to elicit from you what regulatory constraints there are to safely deploying different technologies that are already available, highly vetted and seem very sophisticated and then to learn how surface transportation reauthorization which is coming up here in congress can serve as
▶ 2:11:28Rep. Young: A vehicle to address these sorts of regulatory roadblocks. I continue and I know as does the chairman of the committee, I continue to have this desire to work with you on this. I think it is essential that we seize this moment of opportunity. I will be sharing with the remainder of the year the surface transportation subcommittee and this reauthorization is something that is very important to me.
▶ 2:11:59Rep. Young: I think it is our one opportunity for this congress to make some serious headway for the benefits of safety, mobility and economic benefits. Mr. farrah, if you could quickly summarize what you believe are the components we should be focusing on as part of a federal framework to deploying av's so that we can enjoy these value propositions.
▶ 2:12:26Mr. Farrah: I would be glad to. First of all, we need to make sure that congress is directing the department of transportation to require a safety case and establish certain driving competencies. We need to create a data repository that allows more incident data to be housed and shared with state regulatory partners and third, we need to evolve the standards that apply to human driven vehicles.
▶ 2:12:55Mr. Farrah: A lot of the accessibility challenges that senator duckworth is talking about, these are ones because we are trying to adapt to rules and regulations that were written when it was only contemplated when a human would be driving the vehicle. That is no longer the case. Now that autonomous vehicles can do the driving, we need to evolve those standards.
▶ 2:13:13Sen. Young: Fantastic. Because of the different design of autonomous vehicles, there will probably be a lot of solutions to that problem of how you can accommodate someone in a wheelchair. We need to, if not, loosen up the regulations, fundamentally rework them to accommodate this new era, is that accurate?
▶ 2:13:32Mr. Farrah: We can have safety but innovation at the same time. A situation where vehicles can look different. When we get in our cars and drive home, the things around you are placed there because you are human driving the vehicle. When that is not the case, you can drive -- design the vehicles in a better way and make them more accessible.
▶ 2:13:51Sen. Young: Dr. peña, thank you for our recent visit. I want to pull on a thread mentioned by Mr. farrah which is the safety case. You indicated this is the backbone of your operations at waymo. What does a safety case look like in practice and how does this framework allow you to identify and mitigate risks in real time before they ever manifest in the real world? Dr. peña: thank you, senator.
▶ 2:14:19Sen. Young: The safety case is really an aggregation, a combination of the assessment that is done to ensure that the system is safe to deploy. That includes analysis, tests, simulation and it is put together in a logical argumentation that determines safety with evidence so you have to show evidence that backs it up.
▶ 2:14:49Sen. Young: Very good. If we get the regulatory atmosphere right, we can get measurable benefits to consumers. In my very limited time I have not yet heard a lot of emphasis on the economic case which is also pretty compelling, are needed to stay ahead of not just the innovation curve but also the deployment curve in this country so that we will continue to have the right incentives so
▶ 2:15:21Sen. Young: That our workers and our industry can benefit from the economics of this. What are the economic benefits of -- Mr. moravy, I will ask you, to the united states to see that we can establish the right regulatory framework and what happens if china winds this competition?
▶ 2:15:46Mr. Moravy: Thank you, senator. As I mentioned, the tesla is committed to building all the vehicles we sell in the U.S. in the U.S. and our factories in texas that are already ready to deploy av's offer the opportunity of 5000 jobs locally and an extension to the supply base that can be 10 times that.
▶ 2:16:08Mr. Moravy: In addition, as some of the other senators mentioned, there is opportunity to create a better quality of life for those workers. As we shift the industry from a disparate driver industry where we spend many hours away from the home, a localized solution where they can work in factories with highly skilled jobs or in other areas of business such as service and operations.
▶ 2:16:37Sen. Young: Mr. farrah, do you have anything to add about the economic benefits to the united states generally and paint a brief picture of what happens if our chief national security adversary wins this economic competition?
▶ 2:16:54Mr. Farrah: What is really special about job creation in the av sector is you get all the jobs involved in building vehicles but then you get these other jobs involved in the technology, servicing, fleet management and so on. This is really an economic boon to the united states.
▶ 2:17:14Sen. Young: Sen. rosen: I apprecd all the witnesses for being here for testifying today and for the work you are doing. Nevada has been at the forefront of autonomous vehicle testing and deployment I am proud to say and also proud to say our state is helping to pave that way through this technology. Enormous potential to improve safety, reduce congestion, expand mobility for seniors and people with disabilities.
▶ 2:17:43Sen. Young: I want to associate myself with senator duckworth's remarks. This will be critical for the future for all 80's and all of our lives as we go from being, welcome a young person into hopefully will live to 105. That promise of this is going to depend on robust safety standards.
▶ 2:18:02Sen. Young: That allows fully driverless operations in certain limited areas and autonomous vehicle companies been operating in my hometown for some time and we are also hopeful the right hill and service of lehman begin in las vegas this summer after face testing and local approvals bringing another major player in chart system. Mr.
▶ 2:18:26Sen. Young: Piña, have been talking about the data sets and all the things you have been learning so can you describe how the safety data that has emerged from what you been doing, or deployments so far, how does that approach e intervention protocols because we think about when something happens, you mentioned all of the multitude of stop lights going out and maybe an emergency, flood or hurricane or whatever it is we had can you talk about how that is informing
▶ 2:18:56Sen. Young: Your protocols? Mr. piña: yes, senator. We that our system thoroughly and methodically. In the event that the vehicle faces uncertainty, we have been conservative in terms of asking for guidance and as we evaluate those situations, we determine whether we can tune the vehicle
▶ 2:19:27Sen. Young: Or provide an update so that we can more confidently handle that scenario so that eventually that need to ask for guidance will be further reduced.
▶ 2:19:39Sen. Rosen: That leads me to calibration standards I guess as we reevaluate, reapply the data that we learned because nevada has long been a leader in testing and deployment an emphasis on real-world performance print what you learn out there, hopefully, it will be shared with everyone because it is to the benefit of all of our safety, public safety and they continue to evolve under roadways and reliability, ensuring that is critical again for the incorporation of this technology in our lives.
▶ 2:20:11Sen. Rosen: Weigh motor vehicles rely on sensors, radar, cameras, they come together for automated driving system, allowed the vehicle to proceed, respond -- respond to the environment like all vehicles do. I do believe you need more than cameras just for the record.
▶ 2:20:26Sen. Rosen: The same types of sensors are used in advanced driving assistant systems increasingly common in vehicles today and safety features like emergency braking, lane keeping assistance, so we know proper sensor calibration is really essential for these systems to function.
▶ 2:20:44Sen. Rosen: Research shows even 0.2° misalignment, just a little bit and a camera, just 25 miles an hour, can be the difference between a timely response and an untimely system activation that could result in well, devastating consequences. Whether the vehicle avoids collision. Mr.
▶ 2:21:07Sen. Rosen: Peña, I'm going asked with that in mind, can you speak to the importance of sensor calibration of waymo's vehicles, how often are the vehicles calibrated, checked, how often do you make sure they remain aligned over time? I appreciate that and then if the others want to join in after. Mr. peña call that we use a variety of centers. We use a laser center and chemists as well.
▶ 2:21:39Sen. Rosen: We continuously check their system and data so this happens continuously as we drive. We check their performing to our expectations.
▶ 2:21:51Sen. Rosen: If I'm the end-user, how often are you going to calibrate? Will there be software updates? Will you be checking? Do I take up her maintenance in between? I can see this 0.2 misalignment causing a collision if it is in between my regular maintenance, that seems a little bit --. Mr. peña: real-time we are able to detect whether our sensors are misbehaving.
▶ 2:22:18Sen. Rosen: Because we have a variety of them, their complement rate, error able to correct for that real time as we drive.
▶ 2:22:25Sen. Rosen: Does anyone else want to talk about calibrating of the sensors in real time or notifying the owner of the car that the sensors have been recalibrated, taken to the next you know emergency light, go to your service station -- wherever that is, service department? >> so much of the federal regulatory regime is on what does the vehicle look like when it is manufactured. We are talking about the life of the vehicle and the average passenger in U.S. is some 13 years old.
▶ 2:22:56Sen. Rosen: Of the old check engine light. >> we are switching to a much more comprehensive every second that a system is engaged, is it safe weather today or in a year or 10 years. That is an essential shift of our revelatory mindset.
▶ 2:23:13Sen. Rosen: I know I'm the last person but I think this is incredibly important as cars are going -- well, if you're driving on ice and snowmageddon over here, that could maybe bump a sensor or change things. I think this concert calibration is really important. Really important for us to think about the safety for your daughters, my daughter come all of our kids, grandkids, even ourselves. Anyone else before we close out?
▶ 2:23:38Chair Cruz: Senator fetterman.
▶ 2:23:42Sen. Fetterman: I trust you enjoyed your --
▶ 2:23:47Chair Cruz: It was delicious and I have to say you look damn handsome with that texans bling.
▶ 2:24:00Sen. Fetterman: I am proud to represent pennsylvania. Pennsylvania has the fifth most truck drivers in the nation. Clearly, very, very critical piece of our economy. And now it is not an interesting story but back in 1994, I worked with ups driver's there. I was proud to work with the teamsters back then. I also realized how difficult their way of life is but I also think that is something necessary we need to protect.
▶ 2:24:31Sen. Fetterman: I am not going to bash av or any of these things nor am I -- I see it is a necessary part of the future moving forward. I want to get that established. I also want to acknowledge that pittsburgh played a significant part of history of developing av , that is, as well, too, so that means we have two things must be true.
▶ 2:25:00Sen. Fetterman: For me, I am going to be the voice for the 90,000 drivers here and I am going to be the teamsters voice here. So I don't ever let them be left behind. I think it is -- those union members are critical in this economy. Mr. farrah, what is your organization's proposal to deal with the workers?
▶ 2:25:31Sen. Fetterman: Those 90,000 truckers here in my state and of course they're concerned about losing their job because of the technology. If they were going to replace senators with chatbots, we would be pretty concerned here as well. For me, it is an honest question.
▶ 2:25:53Sen. Fetterman: Why shouldn't trucks and other av's be supervised by qualified operators on the roads and highways? It is a sincere question.
▶ 2:26:03Mr. Farrah: I will thank you for acknowledging the role that pennsylvania has played in autonomous vehicle develop, but includes a company itself but also institutions like carnegie melon. If someone is a truck driver today and they want to retire a truck driver, they absolutely will have the opportunity to do that. Autonomous vehicles are not out to replace truck drivers.
▶ 2:26:29Mr. Farrah: Truck drivers are an indispensable, critical aspect of our supply chain, the backbone of the american economy . People take for granted how many of their goods are brought to them by truck drivers in this country. The goal of the industry is to coexist with autonomous trucks. You see roles for human truck drivers, autonomous trucks different types of functions. When I talk to people that are involved in autonomous vehicle deployment, they see a hybrid network were certain functions are done by autonomous vehicles and others by human drivers.
▶ 2:27:02Mr. Farrah: That is something that is fundamental to the industry and I will say to conclude, we have had incredible dialogue with many different entities within labor and we are very sensitive to a lot of those concerns. The what opportunities to get out and talk to your constituents to describe how it is we see a lot of this unfolding and make sure we really answer any misconceptions that might be out there.
▶ 2:27:25Sen. Fetterman: Your technology are part of the future, but I also have to be clear that I am going to be -- make sure the teamsters are in in the future as well now, too. I'm not sure how many people would be comfortable getting in an av jet, you know? I don't know. I think it is important to have a human part of the equation. Anyway, moving.
▶ 2:27:52Sen. Fetterman: I have heard waymo is bringing av to pennsylvania. >> we are excited.
▶ 2:28:04Sen. Fetterman: We have had some constituents reach out and there are different kinds of -- what is the word I'm looking for -- people in pittsburgh and philadelphia reached out. It is different kinds of places with different streets and different kinds of circumstances that are very unique.
▶ 2:28:25Sen. Fetterman: A lot of people brought that to me where especially after the superstorm in pittsburgh, we got 16 hours of snow and philadelphia got two. How does your technology account for these kinds of different drivers and the cultures and different communities across my state and the country? Are waymo going to respect the parking share?
▶ 2:28:56Sen. Fetterman: Mr. peña: before we go into any territory, we do a very methodical approach. We first sent our vehicles with a human driver to make sure we understand the unique rhythms of the city. And we systematically, slowly provide a little more autonomy, still with the human behind the wheel, just learning the city. We do that evaluation over time.
▶ 2:29:28Sen. Fetterman: When we are ready, we go to a safety board that evaluates, hey, we really ready for that particular environment? We do a very thorough review before we fully take the human out of the equation, which is what we're doing in in your state.
▶ 2:29:43Sen. Fetterman: I would strongly encourage waymo to incorporate, respect the parking share. When you see examples of people that don't, it does not end very well for folks like that. Regardless, thank you. After all the questions are now complete, chairman cruz will bring this hearing to a close. Thank you for all the witnesses for all of their important testimony today.
▶ 2:30:10Sen. Fetterman: Senators have until close of business on wednesday, february 11 to submit questions for the record. The witnesses will have close of business wednesday february 25 to respond to any of those questions. This concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned.