▶ 0:15:56Chair Ernst: I called the committee on small business and entrepreneurship to order. Today, we are talking about our beloved pets and the entrepreneurial ecosystem that supports the ever-growing pet industry. Pets have a very special place in our lives, and our family is, and even here in the senate and you can always ask senator justice, who often travels with his dog babydog.
▶ 0:16:26Chair Ernst: They support those with disabilities and help our veterans regain their independence. Pets are abundant in americans lives with around 57% of households owning at least one. In rural areas, this number is even higher. 71% of households have pets and 47% report owning more than one animal. As more americans have welcomed pets into their homes, businesses supporting our animals thrived.
▶ 0:16:55Chair Ernst: This growth has continued in our current golden age were spending on pets is estimated to have reached $157 billion in 2025, a record high and a 75% increase since 2018. As the pet economy continues to grow, the number and variety of small businesses that support our pets continues to increase.
▶ 0:17:20Chair Ernst: Local vets, community trainers and neighborhood pet stores are some of the first places people go to get support for their animals. Some of the small businesses we will hear from today participate in franchises through the country, serve on main street and provide quality medical care when pets need it most. They do all this while investing in their employees and giving back to their communities.
▶ 0:17:45Chair Ernst: However, the difficulties pet small businesses face are no difficult -- different than any other member of the economy, accessing capital, navigating regulations, and recruiting qualified employees are some of the many challenges these entrepreneurs encounter. We are here today to talk about how to support these business owners.
▶ 0:18:08Chair Ernst: We can start by passing my made in america manufacturing finance act which will raise the small business administration's limits from $5 million to $10 million for small manufacturers like blue nine pet products that manufactures pet training products in iowa.
▶ 0:18:29Chair Ernst: I'm grateful to my colleagues including senators kunz, young, hickenlooper in houston for their bipartisan ok, we are trying to make a joke, support. This bill has already passed the house and I will continue to work to pass it through our senate chamber.
▶ 0:18:51Chair Ernst: As small businesses and their employees navigate tax season they will be able to invest more of their profits into their growth thanks to the working families tax cuts that are now law. From pet groomers to small business owners taking advantage of the qualified business income deduction, more of the folks hard earned money is staying in their own pockets.
▶ 0:19:16Chair Ernst: Today, we will also have a chance to examine the challenges, businesses and the effective ways small business owners everywhere can recruit and retain employees. The pet economy is just as wide and diverse as the small businesses who participate in it. They care for our animals as their own and it is important we support them as they grow and expand their businesses. I want to think our witnesses for being with us today.
▶ 0:19:47Chair Ernst: We look forward to your testimony and hearing about your important work and the valuable services you provide to our economies. I now recognize ranking member markey for his opening statement.
▶ 0:19:57Sen. Markey: Thank you, madam chair. And thank you for this bipartisan spirit. [laughter] I had to grow up being bilingual because I had to sound like the kids down the park when I was growing up, which did not sound like the past is just a memory in the future is a hard reality.
▶ 0:20:30Sen. Markey: You grow up with these two different accents. I thank you, madam chair. The great thing about pet ownership is that it has never been something only available to the wealthy. Anyone can open their hearts. Today, pet ownership is becoming harder and harder. It has created an affordability crisis across the country.
▶ 0:20:58Sen. Markey: Since trump took office last year, gas prices are up 15% and rising. Grocery costs are up with household staples are up 28%. Facing a 114% increase. Pet owners are getting squeezed.
▶ 0:21:31Sen. Markey: I nod in a cuddly way. This pet-flation may mean that keeping a pet is out of reach for many. Trumps affordability crisis is forcing families to take tough decisions. But pet ownership should not be a privilege reserved for the wealthy.
▶ 0:22:07Sen. Markey: The thousands of small businesses that serve them are also hurting. That is what today's hearing is about. The tariffs have been particularly damaging to the supply chain increasing the cost of producing and distributing pet food and toys and vet supplies and packaging materials.
▶ 0:22:26Sen. Markey: Local pet stores already have a hard enough time competing with the great danes of the world and tariffs have only made their fight for survival that much more difficult. So today I'm happy that one of the cofounders of the great massachusetts success story is joining us.
▶ 0:22:52Sen. Markey: Founded 24 years ago in a small corner storefront in boston's south end, polkadog has grown to over 11 locations in massachusetts and rhode island and has developed a brand of sustainably sourced dog and cat treats now available across the globe. Like many small businesses, polkadog's growth was helped along by an sba loan.
▶ 0:23:20Sen. Markey: They worked with the massachusetts port authority to open up a new production facility. As rob van sickle and his business partner built this brick by brick. Whether you are buying one of the products or not.
▶ 0:23:55Sen. Markey: He has also shown an admirable commitment transforming byproducts from the fishing industry that would normally be thrown away into treats for dogs and cats. But as rob will tell you, being a business owner is not a walk in the dog park.
▶ 0:24:16Sen. Markey: Polkadog has done all the right things and jumped through all the right hoops and with their hard work and community focused vision, it has become a fixture for pets and their owners in massachusetts and around the globe. And we just can't let that success story fall by the wayside due to destructive policy decisions. Thank you.
▶ 0:24:46Sen. Markey: And I look forward to hearing from rob and our other witnesses today.
▶ 0:24:52Chair Ernst: Thank you, ranking member. I think our jokes are kind of falling by the wayside.
▶ 0:24:59Sen. Markey: I will laugh if you laugh.
▶ 0:25:01Chair Ernst: I promise to do that. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today, extend a warm welcome to all of you and thank you for taking time out of your busy schedules to join a seer to share your expertise before this committee. We are going to go ahead with our witness introductions. I will introduce the first two and we will leave the last one for ranking member markey. First we start with Mr.
▶ 0:25:29Chair Ernst: Josh rogers from parkville missouri and owns several camp bow wow locations. Camp bow wow offers dog daycare and boarding services. Mr. rodgers holds a bachelors and masters degree from washington university in st. Louis. Next we have Dr. gary brown, a veterinarian from princeton, west virginia.
▶ 0:26:00Chair Ernst: He founded the animal care center and is an expert on italian greyhounds. He now runs willowbrook cremations, which provides end-of-life care to help local pet owners and hospitals throughout west virginia. He received his Dr.
▶ 0:26:16Chair Ernst: Of veterinary medicine degree from the university of georgia and has previously served as vice president, vice chair, and chair of the board of the american veterinary medical association and to all of you, thank you again and now I will turn to ranking member markey to introduce his witness.
▶ 0:26:34Sen. Markey: I think you, madam chair. Mr. van sickle serves as the ceo and founder of polkadog with 11 retail locations across boston, one manufacturing facility at the boston and he has been innovating for sustainable and community driven practices becoming known for their single
▶ 0:27:04Sen. Markey: Ingredient caught skins beloved by dogs and cats and in boston and beyond. He has a national reputation.
▶ 0:27:19Chair Ernst: Thank you, ranking member and I will explain the lighting system in front of you. There are three lights and green means go, yellow means you are running out of time and read means to go ahead and wrap up your remarks. I ask unanimous consent that the witnesses' full statements be included in the record. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 0:27:45Chair Ernst: As your written testimony has been made part of the record, the committee asked you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. With that, Mr. rodgers, you are recognized for five minutes for your testimony.
▶ 0:27:57Mr. Rodgers: All right, thank you distinguished members of the committee including my very own misery senator hawley, thank you for the opportunity to talk about the issues faced by our pet services business. I'm here today with my power has -- power housewife ashley, the real reason we are in that business. We are caretaking 510 dogs across our locations.
▶ 0:28:28Mr. Rodgers: We are first generation college graduates from humble beginnings. I saw them struggle immensely to build their own businesses from scratch. They eventually succeeded through pure sacrifice. A generation later, ashley and I own several locations across the state of missouri along with colorado and florida. It's a franchise business model.
▶ 0:29:04Mr. Rodgers: In under four years. So how did we get here? After trying out several different pet care facilities we decided to try camp bow wow that a friend of ours had opened and we liked the premier experience. That is when ashley suggested we look into opening our own once we found out it was a franchise. Having a comfortable, well-paying corporate job, my first reaction was a negative one to be honest but ashley was persistent and over time I agreed.
▶ 0:29:35Mr. Rodgers: It allowed us to go into business for ourselves. That system turned it into a reality allowing us to open our first location and breakeven in six weeks, which is unheard of and that success enabled us to go to seven locations. 30% say they would not own a business without franchising.
▶ 0:30:08Mr. Rodgers: We are excited to see that pet services including grooming, boarding, daycare, veterinary care are expected to be the fastest growing. It is no wonder americans love their four-legged family members. This growth was not accidental. It was fueled by one, big, beautiful bill.
▶ 0:30:37Mr. Rodgers: The bonus appreciation has been a game changer for us. We were able to immediately deduct much of that cost. That capital won't sit in the bank. Excuse me. It will be reinvested directly and facility improvements at our next expansion into kansas making section 199 a deduction permanent. These are not just technical tax provisions.
▶ 0:31:06Mr. Rodgers: They allow local owners to reinvest in their communities. There was a commonsense gap that needs to be closed. Restaurants have received federal tax credits paid on employee tips. The one big beautiful bill extended this to beauty services but our pet groomers were left out. They provide services like haircutting, styling, and shampooing that are analogs to human salons. It is only right that the treasury department clarifies pet grooming can utilize this.
▶ 0:31:39Mr. Rodgers: It would deliver a meaningful benefit to the front-line workers who care for our pets. While congress has provided certainty on our tax policy the franchising community and its businesses have no certainty for its business model. The employee standard has unnecessarily changed and it has harmed the fundamental relationship in our community. The unpredictable standard strikes at the heart of my independence has a business owner.
▶ 0:32:08Mr. Rodgers: I hire my own staff and bear my own financial risk. I'm not a managed employee of a corporation and my workers are not hired a managed by employees or customers. Congress has a chance to achieve a bipartisan victory and support and enact the american franchise act. This bipartisan legislation is the simplest way to help franchise small businesses and provides the clarity we desperately need.
▶ 0:32:50Mr. Rodgers: And you are protecting the path to build something lasting. Our growth is built on hard work in a policy environment. It gives us the tools to be compete and be successful. We need congress to pass the american franchise act into law this year. It is the most important bipartisan achievement you can enact in 2026. Thank you and I welcome your questions.
▶ 0:33:18Chair Ernst: Thank you very much. Next we've ago to Dr. brown. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:33:25Dr. Brown: Thank you and good afternoon members of the committee. I'm Dr. gary brown, born and braised -- born and raised in west virginia. I obtained my doctor of veterinary medicine from the university of georgia.
▶ 0:33:45Dr. Brown: After graduating, I practice as a mixed animal veterinarian in southern west virginia, then I started my own mixed animal practice in west virginia, eventually selling in 2022. I recently transitioned to primarily small animal with an emphasis on surgery will also starting an additional small business in pet cremation services.
▶ 0:34:09Dr. Brown: During this time I was heavily involved in organized veterinary medicine through the american associations and many other associations. At the a vma, I served as a delegate, the vice president, the board vice chair, and chair, and as vice president I was honored with the opportunity to visit every single veterinary school in the united states and many other international schools.
▶ 0:34:39Dr. Brown: With this extensive experience across the veterinary profession , I can attest that veterinary practices are central pillars of communities across the united states. As a proud west virginian, I feel this is especially true in smaller towns where it is often an essential health care provider and a cornerstone of small business and often the front porch of that community.
▶ 0:35:01Dr. Brown: Veterinary medicine is a relatively small profession but we have a disproportionately large and positive effect on society. At our core, veterinary practices are community-based businesses that provide stable employment.
▶ 0:35:21Dr. Brown: Each practice typically has four additional employees including highly skilled veterinary technicians providing clinical support and veterinary assistants, along with administrative and client support team members. The average companion animal practice generates more than 1.5 million dollars in annual revenue.
▶ 0:35:44Dr. Brown: Each full-time veterinarian generates 600,000 dollars supporting local economies and employee wages, business purchases, and reinvestment in the practice. Veterinary clinics are also capital-intensive health care facilities. Modern veterinary medicine requires surgical facilities, medical laboratory capabilities, and advanced medical technologies.
▶ 0:36:13Dr. Brown: These support a broad network of industries from medical equipment manufacturers and diagnostic laboratories to pharmaceutical companies, pet food manufacturers, and distribution networks. In rural communities, the veterinary clinic is a main street business that helps anchor network of local farmers.
▶ 0:36:31Dr. Brown: Policies to support small business such as tech provisions -- tax provisions help veterinary businesses expand services, acquire and adopt new medical technologies and continue providing high-quality care while sustaining economic activity.
▶ 0:36:53Dr. Brown: The reconciliation package includes the ability to expense business assets which helps supports those across the country. If the opportunity presents itself hired congress to pass the rural veterinary workforce act which would free up additional federal funds and allow more veterinarians to serve in these rural and underserved communities.
▶ 0:37:23Dr. Brown: Also passing the association health plans act would expand health care choices for small businesses through health plans. When it comes to growing communities, veterinary practices continue not only to animal health and public health but to the long-term economic vitality I think you for your
▶ 0:37:58Dr. Brown: Opportunity we appreciate the opportunity.
▶ 0:38:15Chair Ernst: Thank you. Mr. van sickle, you are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:38:20Mr. Van Sickle: Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. My name is robert van sickle and I'm the cofounder of polkadog, a boston-based dog and cap treat manufacturer and retailer.
▶ 0:38:46Mr. Van Sickle: Our vision is simple, make the best dog and cat treats we could use our neighborhood shop to form a community. It sounded easy. But we had no idea what we were doing and that was 2002. Fast-forward to today we operate a commissary kitchen on the boston fish.
▶ 0:39:14Mr. Van Sickle: Where we distribute to gift shops around the world. We have two warehouses that support our direct e-commerce business and own and operate 11 retail locations in the boston area and beyond. We have a team of about 100 people. By all accounts an undeniable success and I would agree, but one thing it has not been as easy.
▶ 0:39:38Mr. Van Sickle: Despite our longevity and growth and how her company might look to someone from the outside, within the walls we operate as the small business from day one. And the age-old question of how to maintain access to fair and flexible capital. The line between success and failure is never far away.
▶ 0:40:12Mr. Van Sickle: But what might have been a worry before about needing to call a plumber to fix the toilet it looks like how do we compete to keep our brand. How are we going to balance.
▶ 0:40:30Chair Ernst: If you just may wait one moment. We will check on this. [indiscernible] are we good? Ok, thank you, go ahead.
▶ 0:40:50Mr. Van Sickle: How we are going to balance wage consideration can we afford to match our 401(k) plans this year and continue to innovate on many days it feels like we are swimming to keep our heads above water. Like increasing prices to our customers, creating prices altogether. There comes a point where we can't run any leaner or ask our customers to pay anymore.
▶ 0:41:21Mr. Van Sickle: There is a floor and a ceiling. We believed in the power of american small business to do good. It is the foundation of how we think and do good every day. With about building a company that manufactures itself and does it to pay fair and livable wages.
▶ 0:41:49Mr. Van Sickle: Supporting local economies and gives back to the neighborhoods that support us. We believe in doing things the right way which more often than not is not the easy way. What small businesses like ours need most is stability to plan investments, hire workers, grow methodically, to know and be able to say we support our teams and their families and know we can support our own families, to know that our hard work will pay off I believe we have done that
▶ 0:42:24Mr. Van Sickle: On day 8500. I'm glad what we have become. We grew from one street corner to a global manufacturer, wholesaler, and retailer surveying dogs, cats, and people around the world.
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Van Sickle: It has been the most magical journey I could imagine for my life and am grateful every day for the opportunities and lessons it has afforded for our team and customers and all those who have supported us along the way. We would not have made it a week without that help. What an amazing gift to build a house out of thin air and have complete strangers raise the roof. I don't know any other places where that is possible.
▶ 0:43:10Mr. Van Sickle: We are the american small business story. Tomorrow is day 8501 and I can't wait to get back to work. Thank you for the opportunity to share what I've learned.
▶ 0:43:19Chair Ernst: Really appreciate that. We will go into the question part of our hearing today and I will now recognize myself for five minutes for questions. We will start with Mr. rodgers. It is great to hear your business will be taking advantage of the working families tax cuts.
▶ 0:43:41Chair Ernst: In your testimony, you described your work with paw-sperity --another paws joke -- in my home state 150 thousand islands are expected to benefit from no tax on tips.
▶ 0:44:07Chair Ernst: Talk to us a little bit about that program and then how is no tax on tips benefiting your employees and their families? And if we could include one more provision in a second reconciliation bill to support you and your business, what would it be? First, talk about no tax on tips and then let's talk about if we had a second shot at it, what would you include?
▶ 0:44:32Mr. Rodgers: Absolutely. Thank you, madam chair, for the question. The no tax on tips, that is kind of a common sense thing. That helps them. They will be able to deduct that during the paycheck cycle and they will get a nice bump from the return from the government which is great.
▶ 0:44:58Mr. Rodgers: Paw-sperity is a non-profit we work with. Grooming is part of our business. It is becoming one of our private growth engines. It helps parents that are in poverty.
▶ 0:45:20Mr. Rodgers: It trains them to be groomers for dogs and that is a very rewarding opportunity for them so they can, and lift themselves out. They can get a hand up instead of a hand out we hire those individuals, we have hired several and it has been a great relationship for us. The one thing that I would like to see is not having to pay the tax on those tips.
▶ 0:45:48Mr. Rodgers: That would be something I would recommend if you can put that in there, that would be awesome. Now, I guess that would be my second reconciliation bill recommendation.
▶ 0:45:59Chair Ernst: Dr. brown, you started and operated a successful practice in west virginia for more than 30 years, providing jobs and critical services in your community. You have also trained that next generation of veterinarians. How has serving a rural area benefited your business and community as it has grown?
▶ 0:46:25Dr. Brown: Thank you, chairwoman. [indiscernible]
▶ 0:47:30Chair Ernst: Wonderful. Thank you so much. Mr. van sickle, you raised the issue of access to capital. And the increasing competitive pet industry where you say you compete with large corporations who have greater access to liquidity.
▶ 0:47:49Chair Ernst: Can you describe how greater access to capital including access to larger loans for manufacturers would help polkadog address these challenges?
▶ 0:48:03Mr. Van Sickle: Thank you, it is an age-old question for us. How do we get access to create -- access to capital? Part of what is challenging for us is where we are as we are not quite big enough to take on a huge amount of debt.
▶ 0:48:41Mr. Van Sickle: That has changed as we have matured. What was hard for us at the beginning was whether we want to take on personal debt to grow this business. We have gotten a little bit more creative with our access to capital for this time using some of our providers.
▶ 0:49:11Mr. Van Sickle: Offering access to capital for their merchants. The real balances is what we feel comfortable with in terms of leverage for a business but also facilitating the growth and supporting our employees and our company and how we get to that next stage. It is a bit of a juggling act in all honesty.
▶ 0:49:40Mr. Van Sickle: As the industry continues to get more sophisticated and well healed, everybody seems to be in the pet industry now, everybody is fighting for parts of the same pie so how do we stand up and say, we are still here? Local banks and things have been helpful. We have been able to facilitate that but it comes at a cost I guess.
▶ 0:50:12Chair Ernst: Wonderful, thank you. I will recognize ranking member markey.
▶ 0:50:17Sen. Markey: Thank you, chair. Health care costs have been skyrocketing. The affordable care act and those programs that expired, 22 million americans were affected by that. 10 of the 22 million.
▶ 0:50:45Sen. Markey: So we know that health care have been skyrocketing businesses and individuals, have you faced increased health care costs and how has it impacted your business?
▶ 0:51:10Mr. Van Sickle: Thank you for the question. We were just talking to our broker before I got the call to come here. The estimate for increases 27% would be our increases on our premium on the backend of having a 10% increase in 2025.
▶ 0:51:33Mr. Van Sickle: So it is a significant expense for us and our struggle is how do we balance trying to do right by our employees, we can't really attract and retain talent if we are not providing reasonable health insurance to our employees. It is a struggle for us for sure.
▶ 0:51:57Sen. Markey: What are the trade-offs in terms of your employees and the services you can provide.
▶ 0:52:05Mr. Van Sickle: Right, I think that all comes into it. Do we take on a new distribution partner to sell our wares, do we take on a new piece of business that is going to tax our manufacturing capability and our ability to grow and build inventory and hold it and not get paid for 90 days for our dealer, our vendors.
▶ 0:52:33Mr. Van Sickle: So it is challenging because we are trying to balance many different things and all of them are a priority. Making sure they are taken care of. As we get longer into the cycle of our business, they may have started when they are 20 or 25 so that is a huge consideration for them. How do we balance all of these different threads that are being pulled?
▶ 0:53:02Sen. Markey: Last year hiking the premium was 10%. This year it is a 27% hike? That is incredible. So small businesses are often at the forefront of innovation. When it comes to environmentally sustainable products. I know that you seek to do that.
▶ 0:53:32Sen. Markey: You tried to build a business model that can withstand economic shocks and supply disruptions so you are in a business of sustainable pet treats. So what makes your product sustainable and what are the ways you are thinking about sustainability?
▶ 0:53:53Mr. Van Sickle: Within about sustainability and a bunch of different ways. I thing about the core philosophy. When we were making treats at the beginning, we were doing it on our own. We had a friend that is a fisherman. They were selling fillets to grocery stores.
▶ 0:54:18Mr. Van Sickle: They were throwing out the skins and the amount of skins, the amount of waste and food processing, it is an opportunity for us, it is going into the garbage, the landfill. That is the journey of sustainability. We have been doing more work with airway stream products.
▶ 0:54:47Mr. Van Sickle: We are thinking about all the different ways we can treat and care for our employees. If our people that work for us are not able to afford working for us, it does not make a whole lot of good business sense. It also extends to how we support local nonprofits and our communities. The surfrider foundation.
▶ 0:55:17Mr. Van Sickle: We have our hands and a lot of different places. I think it is really creating a holistic sense of the company doing things the right way. As I get older and I look at my kids, that's what I want to leave behind. That we are leaving the planet in the world in a better place.
▶ 0:55:40Sen. Markey: We just have to preserve it and approve it. So we leave it better than we have. I think you and I think the other two witnesses as well. Very good testimony.
▶ 0:55:51Chair Ernst: Thank you. I think we will move into a second round in questions and for all of our witnesses, I travel every year river to river in the state of iowa from the missouri river over to the mississippi and back. The number one concern I'm hearing from all small businesses is the challenge of burdensome regulations.
▶ 0:56:16Chair Ernst: Which federal regulations or government processes have been an issue for your business or the pet industry. Dr. brown, we will start with you.
▶ 0:57:59Chair Ernst: Very good. Thank you very much for that. That was not what I expected. Thank you. Mr. van sickle, please.
▶ 0:58:10Mr. Van Sickle: One of the main things we come up against his registering with the department through the state. There is no unified submission process for that. It is more time-consuming than it is onerous from a financial standpoint.
▶ 0:58:32Mr. Van Sickle: But we basically have someone that has lot of their time figuring out which departments there is no systemic agreed-upon formula and it sounds insignificant but in terms of operating, I will get a note and they say, you didn't register these things. We just forgot.
▶ 0:59:01Mr. Van Sickle: There is a lot of different paperwork and administrative staff, so consolidating that and having one place you can put to pay the states individually whatever it takes, it would streamline a lot of that kind of work.
▶ 0:59:18Chair Ernst: Mr. rogers?
▶ 0:59:21Mr. Rodgers: I would probably say our business is a little different than the other two, but the biggest one which I've talked about already is the franchisee, you are buying a proven model. You pay a royalty based on your revenues for that.
▶ 0:59:43Mr. Rodgers: Once you get open and operating and you start getting bigger and one of the unique things you have to do as a business owner is what is your employee handbook in your policies and procedures. They won't touch it and that is because of the joint employer rule. The liability opens the door for them. 42% of our paean analysis associated with labor.
▶ 1:00:10Mr. Rodgers: They have a wide view, what are the best practices they are learning from and these other owners and how do they leverage that and share that and educate the rest of the owners, but that would be creating some kind of capability and is a joint employer, they would pull back and say, don't support all these things because it becomes a liability and that impacts my ability as a franchisee and I
▶ 1:00:40Mr. Rodgers: Don't have seven locations, I haven't figured it out. A new owner is kind of walking and blind from that perspective. Removing that would be huge. One of the biggest things and I think my colleagues here would probably agree with me, taxes on property. Property taxes, we are in colorado and florida and missouri.
▶ 1:01:07Mr. Rodgers: In boulder county and laramie county in colorado, we have a building that we lease, we don't own it but we still have to pay the taxes on it. Two years ago, it was $28,000, we have a bill now, it is $51,000. Why is that money ballooning the way it is? Where are the auditors making sure that money is being spent in the right way and we are getting the bang for our buck. Same for laramie county.
▶ 1:01:39Mr. Rodgers: We don't understand why. That impacts our ability. They don't tell us in advance. It is six months of bills due. That impacts our ability to hire people and impacts the ability to fix things in the building and maybe the roof is leaking because we have to pay a $10,000 real estate bill that was $10,000 cheaper.
▶ 1:02:10Chair Ernst: Thank you and the states to administer those property taxes but I started as a county auditor so I would want to know where those dollars are going. All really good feedback, so thank you very much because there are some things we can work on with this committee. One more question here.
▶ 1:02:35Chair Ernst: You mentioned in your testimony that you used in sba 504 loan to expand the number of locations you had. Tell me about the number of locations you are able to do with that borrowed capital?
▶ 1:02:52Mr. Rodgers: Thank you for that question. Our first locations was a ground-up build. We acquired land and the acquisition of that land became a down payment. You are looking at purchasing this property and there was a bank down the street from the land we are looking at. They introduced us to the sba. Since we were going to build a building.
▶ 1:03:24Mr. Rodgers: It introduced us to ac/dc in rural missouri. We have been working with them ever sense. Our first projection was 20%. We were able to build that building. We were successful after six weeks of course. It is the post-pandemic era, so everyone had adopted a dog from a shelter or acquired a dog some way because they were looking for that fellowship, that friendship.
▶ 1:03:51Mr. Rodgers: So we were at the right place at the right time and it opened the door for the next opportunity. I think we had three loans across several locations and we are getting ready to do a fourth.
▶ 1:04:12Mr. Rodgers: We are going to camp out, one of the things I would ask is look at the cost of building, the cost of acquiring real estate has gone up substantially. It goes away really quickly so asking if you could increase that cap. I think the last time was maybe go $7.5 million.
▶ 1:04:39Chair Ernst: That is good feedback and if we could talk about maybe I don't know if you engaged in any of the loan programs as well, but Mr. van sickle, if you could talk about that cap as well.
▶ 1:04:52Mr. Van Sickle: Yes, thanks, madam chair. We did obtain a facility from the sba when we built our kitchen. We got both. I'm generally in favor generally creating that environment and our towns and cities.
▶ 1:05:16Mr. Van Sickle: I would say the thing I would say it could be challenging for us to fall business owner that doesn't know what they don't know about taking on an enormous amount of debt. I worry about people entering into that agreement, taking on a mountain of debt with being a new business owner, it is a lot to wrestle with and I think it is a pretty heavy weight for a lot of people.
▶ 1:05:49Mr. Van Sickle: That being said, it was fundamental in us getting our business off the ground and getting running, but through mutual bank in new hampshire, the customer was a long story, but trying to get out of that and trying to undo the homes that we pledged and some of the other investments that we pledged. , you start to lose, it starts to lose its meaning.
▶ 1:06:18Mr. Van Sickle: It is onerous in terms of a small business owner just getting off the ground to take on an amount of debt like that. Not really knowing what could come down the line. That is not good for anybody. So trying to be mindful of that aspect is really important to tell small business owners when they do enter into that obligation, what it actually looks like.
▶ 1:06:42Chair Ernst: Wonderful. I appreciate it. I think we will go ahead and wrap up unless you have any further comments. Dr. brown? On that topic? Ok, we will go ahead and wrap up the hearing but I would like to do in the spirit of bipartisanship here at the end of this committee hearing is just to give you all the chance to extend a shout out of gratitude.
▶ 1:07:08Chair Ernst: I know a number of you mentioned your families, your supporters in your opening statements, but I will give you the final word if you would like to share a moment of gratitude for those who have supported your businesses. So, Dr. brown, why don't we start with you?
▶ 1:07:22Dr. Brown: Well, certainly, I think family is the most important and that has been true for me. My wife and family have been very supportive. Whether it be late nights, time spent together, going farm to farm. What have you. That has been a pleasure.
▶ 1:07:48Dr. Brown: My think it is tough at a time, but it has been a pleasure with that. I want to, I guess I'm I want to thank senator justice who brings a lot of animal contact appearance for that. And of course babydog is a really good example to do that as well, a representative.
▶ 1:08:15Dr. Brown: But I do thank you for your time and all of that here, so welcome to ask any questions other than that during these hearings as well. Thank you.
▶ 1:08:24Chair Ernst: Thank you. Mr. van sickle?
▶ 1:08:27Mr. Van Sickle: Thanks, madam chair. If you told me to any four years ago I would be sitting here doing this 24 years later, I would have told you things went really well are not well at all. [laughter] I'm extremely grateful for this opportunity and this experience and being a business owner, a lot of it has been like this, just sort of you get in the river and it takes you downstream and you don't know where you are going to end up most of the time.
▶ 1:08:51Mr. Van Sickle: Sometimes it is great and sometimes it is terrifying but it is really a magical journey and I hope that others, I'm sort of at the age now where I'm making way for the next crop. I hope that the next generation of entrepreneurs is afforded the same opportunities that I had when we started our business and I do mean it sincerely when we say we wouldn't have lasted a week without the support of our families, or neighborhood in the south end, the city of boston.
▶ 1:09:22Mr. Van Sickle: You start to think back on all the things that happened to get you where you are and it is literally one day at a time. So I'm just extremely grateful to all of them.
▶ 1:09:31Chair Ernst: Thank you. And Mr. rodgers.
▶ 1:09:35Mr. Rodgers: Yes, I can relate. If you were to ask me six years ago if I would own seven camp bow wow bow wow -- locations across three states, I probably would have laughed at you. I worked for large fortune 100 companies in the technology space.
▶ 1:09:57Mr. Rodgers: Seeing my parents work really hard, but the effort in to build the business they have today, that was always an itch I needed to scratch because I wanted to do that myself. I think my wife is in the same boat.
▶ 1:10:16Mr. Rodgers: Our parents our neighbors, our friends, and then the blessings that god bestowed on us enabling us to do these things and make these good decisions to take on the debt that we did and move forward to be profitable is no easy undertaking. I want to thank the franchise because there are others owner -- other owners out there that we got to stand on their shoulders and we would not have been able to do what we did in such a short period without their help. Lastly, I would think our customers. Thank you for letting us care for your dogs.
▶ 1:10:48Mr. Rodgers: They are the family members, the ones that get to snuggle with you and come up to you when you are having a bad day and they can sense it. We really want to make sure we constantly do right by them and take good care of those customers and their four-legged friends. In you.
▶ 1:11:02Chair Ernst: Thank you. I want to say thank you so much to our witnesses for being with us here today. And we know how hard it is to start a business and keep the business going and expand your operations and I know there are so many pet owners out there that are really grateful for everything that you do. Thank you for that.
▶ 1:11:28Chair Ernst: I ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for two weeks for members to submit questions, and submit additional information into the record. Without objection, so ordered. Again, we want to thank you all today and is there an update at all? So let's not go to my office after this.
▶ 1:11:56Chair Ernst: There is an issue on the second floor so if you can just avoid that, it will be fine. Thank you all for being here today and with that, the committee on small business and entrepreneurship stands adjourned. [gavel] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]