▶ 0:15:43>> the committee on small business and entrepreneurship to order. Happy sunshine week, folks. Here we are. It is the time of year when we celebrate more sunshine in our lives and in our government. While we may be getting a little more sunlight every day, washington still seems to be in the dark.
▶ 0:16:04The government demands to know exactly how much money all of you earn so it can tax every single cent yet once washington gets its hands on your money, it is anyone's guess where it is even going. The federal funding accountability and transparency act has required government expenditures to be publicly available on a searchable website, usaspending not goes.
▶ 0:16:38-- usaspending.gov. Tens of billions of dollars are being intentionally omitted from the site every year. Another law passed 15 years ago requires washington to make an annual list of programs describing the cost, purpose, and results of each program.
▶ 0:17:02Turns out government agencies don't even know how many programs they are running or if they are accomplishing their stated goals. More than 2600 programs have been identified to date but that doesn't include foreign aid and defense programs which have not been tallied yet.
▶ 0:17:23If washington doesn't know how many programs there are and if they are actually working, how can the government guarantee your money is being spent properly? Simple answer is it can't. Folks without transparency, there is no accountability.
▶ 0:17:43That's why I have offered a number of laws to shed more light on washington spending and as a result today, agencies from the small business administration to the pentagon must put public price tags on projects paid for with your tax dollars. A similar law applies to funding for the department of health and human services, education, and labor. This information is intended to allow taxpayers to decide for themselves if the price is right.
▶ 0:18:14Here is an example of how sba and taxpayers are supporting the work of our friends at the iowa center women's business center. These folks are helping women who are trying to start or grow a business in our state where women now own 43% of all businesses.
▶ 0:18:36As you can see from the price tag on the center's website, taxpayers are providing $150,000 of the cost to make those services available. Shouldn't every taxpayer funded program project or product provide a similar price tag? Unfortunately, even where this transparency has already been promised, it isn't always happening.
▶ 0:19:04For example, right here, the navy sunk tax dollars into conducting octopus hypnosis. But you will put yourself in a trance reading through the results, trying to find the cost. Why? Because it's not included. The army is spending taxpayer money on monkey mind-reading.
▶ 0:19:37But the cost is anyone's guess. I'm sure we are all looking forward to learning what is on the mind of monkeys. I already know it is on taxpayers minds. They are fed up with washington hiding how the money they worked so hard to earn is being spent, only to learn it's being wasted. Well, folks, sunshine is the best disinfectant for discouraging wasteful spending.
▶ 0:20:06That is why I appreciate administrator at kelly loeffler for quickly getting her agency into compliance with my cost act. While the pentagon has been required to disclose the cost of research and development projects funded with tax dollars since 2021, the previous administration did little to make that happen.
▶ 0:20:30I am announcing today that the department's inspector general will investigate the matter so taxpayers won't have to resort to mind-reading or hypnosis to find out how defense dollars are being spent. One thing I have learned during my time in the senate is there's more to making a lot and just passing the bill.
▶ 0:20:53Oversight is absolutely essential to making sure the law is carried out an effective oversight requires access to information. I want to recognize the hard work of the offices of inspector general and the government accountability office for assisting my work and standing up for taxpayers. I also want to express my deep gratitude for the work of open the books in the white coat waste project who turned transparency into real-world results that benefit all of us.
▶ 0:21:23I have learned the hard way that exposing inefficiencies and fighting waste doesn't make you many friends in washington, D.C. isolate you for your thankless work and extend the gratitude of the taxpayers in iowa who could not have better friends standing up for their interests in washington.
▶ 0:21:44Before recognizing the ranking member for his opening remarks, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record statements from nonprofit taxpayer watchdog and transparency groups in support of more openness in government including citizens against government waste from the U.S. right to know, the national taxpayers union, and we will enter these into the record without objection, so ordered. I now recognize ranking member markey for his opening statement. >> thank you, madam chair.
▶ 0:22:17I love the name sunshine week. By the way, I am the author of the law that moved to daylight savings time from the last week of april to the first week of march. So we took the hour of daylight from 5:15 in the morning and moved it to 7:15 at night so for the last two weeks, you have been walking and going home and it's daylight out there. It's sunshine.
▶ 0:22:41And you are welcome, everyone, because we know that is really the beginning of spring, when the hour is in the evening and you can go home in it. That's kind of my gift to everyone. That smile in the corners of your mouth to turn upwards, knowing you are going to be able to go home and stop taking your walk or gardening because it is there. The trump administration has said that there administration is the most transparent.
▶ 0:23:12In our history. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. Because this administration low starkness. They wanted to be 5:15 in the morning, you know? Where people just cannot see what is going on.
▶ 0:23:29In the past, -- in the past year, the trump administration has spent all of their time operating in the shadows, operating in darkness, purging the essential programs, disappearing databases, firing nonpartisan federal staff including those that respond to freedom of information act requests. This administration has tried to silence the truth, coerce reporters into staying silent.
▶ 0:24:00Just this past weekend, the chairman of the federal communications commission, or as I call it now, the federal censorship commission, he threatened to revoke broadcasters licenses over reporting on the iranian conflict. So it is an illegal war in iran. Is it enough for the administration? It seeks to wage an all-out war on reality. Don't report on the skyrocketing energy prices.
▶ 0:24:27Don't report on the fact that the strait of hormuz are now shut. Don't report on that. Now even joe can't, the administration's top counterterrorism official who has some problems of his own, he could not stomach. Lies and resigned yesterday in protest. More often than not, we do not hear about this administration's actions straight from the horse's mouth.
▶ 0:24:58Instead, we learn about these actions after the damage is already done so at best, it's unacceptable. At worst, it's a deliver a bit -- deliver it -- deliv deliberate series.
▶ 0:25:12Last month thanks to court filings, we learned that the so-called department of government for the employees agreed to turn over sensitive social security data to a right wing political advocacy group peddling conspiracy theories of voter fraud.
▶ 0:25:33Last week, thanks to a courageous whistleblower, we learned of allegations that a former doge employee put millions of social security numbers and sensitive financial information on personal thumb drives, intending to share them with his private employer. And recently thanks to a lawsuit, we learned that employees asked chatgpt to choose which federal grants were so-called d.e.I.
▶ 0:26:01And should be canceled. No steps to present bias or discrimination were taken. This right and algorithm and figure out who deserves and doesn't deserve a grant. This is a deeply fraught -- flawed process that employees used to cancel 1400 national endowment of humanities grants because the grants specifically address women and minorities.
▶ 0:26:34That algorithm? Bad outcome for women and minorities. None of these grants were secret nor were they controversial. This is not an open and transparent government. Instead of shining light on actual waste and fraud and abuse, the trump administration is once again playing political games and even the american people in the dark. No sunshine. No transparency.
▶ 0:27:00We still don't know what doge data at the small business administration because it has never been breached. If this administration was serious about transparency, it would not conceal information about the donors of trump's 400 million dollar gold plated ballroom. If this administration was serious about ethical spending, it would not have allowed kristi noem to spend 200 million dollars on two private jets for herself and $220 million on an ad campaign.
▶ 0:27:30If this administration was serious about fiscal accountability, it would have halted the record $95 billion end of fiscal year spending the pentagon blew through last september. Those taxpayer funds -- the pentagon swiped the taxpayers credit card to pay for deals with outside contractors, giving $6 billion to foreign governments and foreign home businesses and to buy luxury items like furniture including a
▶ 0:28:02100,000 grand piano. That's not music to the ears of the american people when it comes to transparency and accountability. The administration that believes in transparency should welcome oversight and it should be opening its books, brief this committee, maintain the independence of inspectors general rather than purging its ranks and replacing them with handpicked maa handpicked maga loyalists.
▶ 0:28:29This committee has a responsibility regardless of party to demanding answers on behalf of small businesses and working families we represent. Congress and this administration flipped the switch and shine some light wherever waste, fraud, and abuse exist and I look forward to today's hearing with this witness panel. >> wonderful. Thank you, ranking member. I did not know that you authored that bill. Thank you.
▶ 0:28:57Some people would argue against you but I am totally ok with it so thank you. >> most of those people come from foreign states. >> I appreciate your open-mindedness because I had to hear over and over again from senators how they operate on god's time. Cows don't know what time it is. Move the hour. Wake them up later and they will still get the job done.
▶ 0:29:24It's fascinating to learn more about farms and their relationships. >> I don't know many cows so I don't think it matters to them but thank you. I want to extend a warm welcome to all of our witnesses and I am thankful that you took time out of your busy schedules to share your expertise and insight with our committee today. I will now introduce our first witness, Mr. justin goodman. Mr.
▶ 0:29:52Goodman is the senior vice president of advocacy and public policy at white coat waste. A nonprofit, nonpartisan government watchdog organization, the subject matter expert with over 20 years of experience investigating, exposing, and stopping government waste. White coat waste was the first to uncover that Dr.
▶ 0:30:15Fauci funded gain of function research at the wuhan institute of virology and have been audited to work with them to try and stop unnecessary and cruel animal research. Next, Mr. john hart is the ceo of open the books with a mission to put every dime online in real time, open the box is the premier government spending transparency organization.
▶ 0:30:42Before joining open the books, he served as the communications director to the late U.S. senator, tom coburn, where he worked on landmark transparency legislation that put federal spending on line. His work includes oversight reports on improper payments, government waste, and exposing covid fraud. Our third witness, Mr.
▶ 0:31:03Jeff arkin, is the director of strategic issues at the government accountability gao in washington, D.C. he oversees the work on federal budget issues, states and localities use of federal grants and other financial assistance and the quality transparency -- quality, transparency, and usefulness of the federal data.
▶ 0:31:29He spent over a decade learning -- leading reviews of tax policy and administration. His work for gao identifying ways to improve tax compliance resulted in billions of dollars in additional federal revenue and other improvements of the federal tax system's operation. Thank you again for being here. I now recognize the ranking member to introduce his witness. >> thank you so much.
▶ 0:32:01I'm pleased to introduce Dr. joshua miller who serves as congress watch director at public citizen where he leads a team advocating advocacy on ai, health care, taxes, and government oversight. He previously served in investigative and legislative roles working with congress and multiple inspectors general including supporting oversight efforts at the U.S. house of representatives committee on oversight and reform.
▶ 0:32:30He is an academic and professional -- his professional career has been impeccable and centered on executive branch responsiveness to the needs of all communities and strengthening transparency and accountability in the government so we welcome you. >> thank you. We will now go into opening statements and first, I will recognize justin goodman for your statement.
▶ 0:32:59I will explain the leading system in front of you. Green means you are good to go. Yellow means you have one minute left so just start wrapping it up, please. Red means time to conclude so with that, Mr. goodman, you are recognized for five minutes. >> did you press the top? >> good afternoon, chair ernst, ranking member markey.
▶ 0:33:29White coat waste mission is to find, expose, and defund government animal testing which cost taxpayers roughly $20 billion each year. We believe taxpayers have a right to know how their hard earned money is being spent so they can hold their government accountable for wasteful spending and animal abuse.
▶ 0:33:45I am honored to testify today about how transparency tools, though imperfect, have helped us eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse in programs funded by the agencies and even spare dogs like oliver behind me from painful experiments. Some of our work with senator ernst shows exactly why transparency is so critical for congressional oversight. In 2022 using federal spending transparency databases, white coat waste uncovered how Dr.
▶ 0:34:15Fauci's division of the nih awarded a one point $8 million small business innovation research contract to develop a seasonal allergy drug. We suspected it funded animal tests but because of deficiencies in reporting requirements, we had to submit a foia request for more details. The records confirmed that the nih approved contract budgeted for a series of drug tests on six-month-old puppies.
▶ 0:34:39The records also reveal that the company admitted internally that the nih funded dong tests were unnecessary and we shared the documents with senator ernst's office and we are grateful she fired off a letter to you Dr. fauci. Within weeks, he personally responded and admitted day out -- they approved it for drug testing. They admitted they were now being canceled following further scrutiny. The drug reached human trials without any human testing on dogs.
▶ 0:35:10Using those tools, we literally saved puppies. More recently using the same transparency tools, we uncovered that wasteful spending on don testing is widespread. We identified at least $86 million in funding awarded by the trump nih to drug companies for other unnecessary testing on dogs. Unfortunately, it's impossible to pinpoint the total amount because of disclosure to fit since he as the gao has documented.
▶ 0:35:40Still, we have shown that in these funded tests, puppies as young as three weeks old are being injected with an force-fed experimental drug's and some are even injected with fentanyl, cocaine, and how their skulls drilled into puritans of millions continues to be wasted on dog tests even though the fda has stated it does not mandate that human drugs be studied on dogs and the fda commissioner has stated why are we testing every single drive on dogs, usually beagles?
▶ 0:36:10It is sad and unnecessary. This wasteful testing persists even though senators and a law in 2022 removing the fda's outdated animal testing mandate. White coats -- white coat waste investigations revealed officials numerous false claims that they stopped funding beagle testing and have prompted bipartisan congressional calls for action.
▶ 0:36:36Taxpayers are so upset about the nih's deception, they are flooding secretary kennedy's phone lines. Instead of thoughtfully responding to public concerns about nih funded bigo abuse yesterday, hhs defiantly changed one of its phone messages to play a recording saying, thank you for calling domino's pizza, before sending taxpayers to voicemail. Torturing puppies without tax dollars is not funny about people at hhs apparently think it is.
▶ 0:37:07Many companies wasting tax dollars on dog tests have violated long-standing transparency laws requiring them to disclose their federal funding. Documents white coat waste show that one biotech company started and run by modernist billionaire co-founder received a one point $2 million contract to test an experimental weight loss pill on dogs. It also violated the law by not disclosing this funding. This is why we need senator ernst to act.
▶ 0:37:36Another transparency success story is white coat waste investigation that prompted president trump to end taxpayer funding for the wuhan lab. All for your request and lawsuits should crude records showing that nih and usaid did fund it that biden and trump agencies is grossly likely cost covid. Senator ernst and others have had to go to great lengths to compel agencies to release records that the public has a right to see under the law.
▶ 0:38:03The records we obtained also support senator paul's allegations that fauci lied under oath when he denied the funding and the bite in hhs even cited the documents when it debarred the lab partner from federal funding. Our investigations have also identified potential covid fraud by eco-health, and others. In closing, sunshine week reminds us that transparency is not an abstract principle. It's a practical tool that protects taxpayers, strengthens oversight, exposes waste, and can even save puppies.
▶ 0:38:34When the government turns on the lights, waste and abuse have nowhere left to hide. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and I look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you very much, Mr. goodman, and welcome to all of her as well. Great to have him here so thank you so much. Next, I will recognize Dr. miller for five minutes of testimony. The floor is yours. >> thank you. Chair ernst, ranking member markey, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 0:39:03I served as director at public citizen where our team works to strengthen government accountability and expose corporate corruption. I also have fond memories of working with this committee while advocating for small businesses at one of the nations -- helping entrepreneurs access responsible capital, especially during ppp. Before that, I served in investigative and legislative roles at gao and several offices.
▶ 0:39:26I worked with congress to strengthen housing support programs and evaluated fines and penalties for foreign corrupt practices, money laundering, and sanctions violations. I provided investigative support on white-collar criminal cases and helped facilitate the data necessary to -- and finally, I am a political science with an expertise in presidential power and the institutions that make our government work effectively. All of these experiences will shape my testimony today.
▶ 0:39:57I am deeply concerned about the fraud -- fraud and corruption resting in the federal government today. This government walked into office focused on dismantling oversight, firing 17 inspector generals and over 75% of roles are still vacant. Inspector general's are not just there to track dollars and cents. They uphold the wealth, safety, and -- health, safety, and well-being of people.
▶ 0:40:22It was an inspector general's office that uncovered failures to protect our troops exposed to toxic burn pits and it was an inspector general's office that uncovered failures to protect our troops body armor and discovered few most trailers with high levels of toxic chemicals and it was the inspector general's office that uncovered nursing homes failing to manage dangerous infections. The real impact will not be felt here in washington, D.C., but felt by the american people.
▶ 0:40:53It's not just the firing of inspector general's that is the problem. The greatest rock you can perpetrate against the american people is using -- for a political power and that is what we are hearing with the so-called doge initiative. Personnel removed social security numbers from the social security administration. In other times, this would be treated like the outrage it is but fraud is so rampant that is just a footnote to larger stories of corruption.
▶ 0:41:19So it's at moments like this that I cannot help but think about 12 easterners ago when president obama sparked a natural -- national controversy by wearing a tan suit. As a political historian, I support any outrage and accountability as a healthy check on any president perceived as violating our norms. The only thing I'm asking is we keep the same energy that produced not tan suit outrage. When the defense secretary breaks norms and spends millions of dollars on crab legs and stakes, bring the tan suit outrage.
▶ 0:41:49When the dhs secretary breaks norms by spending two hundred million dollars on ads featuring herself riding a horse, bring the tan suit outrage. When the president himself breaks norms, selling his policies on energy, ai, and health care to whichever corporation invests in his crypto pyramid or ballroom, bring the tan suit outrage. Let's make accountability tan again because accountability should not be red or blue. Republican or democrat.
▶ 0:42:15Our outrage should be at corruption no matter who commits it, whether it is biden or trump, bush or obama. Let's take the next steps and pursue reforms. Reforms that turn norms into ironclad law with no opportunity for accountability, reforms governing the selection -- creating a process similar to that of gao. Reforms that protect taxpayer data from the type of abuse they are seeing.
▶ 0:42:44Investigate large-scale fraud and corruption while -- to prevent corporations and government officials from misappropriating billions of dollars in reforms that protect all consumer and oversight agencies including the consumer financial protection bureau. The only agency dedicated to protecting americans from being scammed by fortune 500 companies because the purpose of oversight is not simply to expose corruption. It is to protect the american people from it and if we are serious about restoring trust in government and right -- and then restoring real accountability must be our next step.
▶ 0:43:12Thank you and I look forward to your questions. >> we will move to Mr. hart. You are recognized for five minutes of testimony. >> thank you for the invitation. It's truly an honor to testify during the sunshine week of our 250th anniversary. Our founders were onto something when they wrote transparency into the constitution. Biological life is carbon based. Carbon is the building block of life.
▶ 0:43:43Our civic life is transparency based. Transparency is the building block of other -- our other freedoms and that's why it appears in article one, section nine, clause seven. Before the bill of rights because without transparency, our freedoms come apart. Secrecy can subvert sunshine. Secrecy -- accountability is uncomfortable and ignoring problems is easy.
▶ 0:44:09Fixing systemic inefficiency requires hours of unglamorous and tedious oversight work as you all know. But it could be easier to mow the flower bed instead of pulling the weeds. As flawed humans, the clark -- problem runs deeper. Author cs lewis wrote a famous study of corruption called the screwtape letters which is a dialogue between a devil and his apprentice.
▶ 0:44:34He says it's funny how mortals picture us as putting things into their minds. In reality, we do our best work by keeping things out. Government secrecy is insidious. Philosophers and theologians have long observed that for people -- evil to succeed, it must disguise himself as good. In some countries, it doesn't need to discuss it -- disguise.
▶ 0:45:05In our system, the slope to corruption is more gradual and subtle. The enemy of truth and transparency is not a pack of lies or brazen secrecy. The energy is tribalism. It provides the warmth of association, community, and camaraderie, all good things, but it often comes with the permission structure that allows for selective elimination. A transparency for thee but for me.
▶ 0:45:35It keeps inconvenient facts out of sight and mind but when both tribes prevent partial secrecy, we are on our way to total blindness. Tribalism is incompatible with the founder's vision of transparency. There are no republican facts or democrat facts or conservative facts were liberal facts. There are only facts, data, and evidence, and the recent debate about lobster gate that one of our reports provoked is a case study.
▶ 0:46:00We looked at $93 billion in year and spending at the pentagon and the left condemned secretary hegseth for ordering lobster while omitting the fact that previous democrat administrations did the same thing. The right defended hegseth for boosting troop morale with surf and turf but they largely ignored the fact that we just spent 10 times that amount on furniture and literally 2000 times that amount, $50 billion came in just the last five days of the fiscal year and to put that in context, israel, our
▶ 0:46:32Close ally, spent $35 billion on defense for an entire year. We spent more than five days with use it or lose it. See, both sides committed sins of omission. It was hecklers versus cheerleaders and in washington, there is widespread collusion to not acknowledge enormous problems like use or lose it and our unsustainable debt.
▶ 0:46:55Senator ernst is a combat veteran and you understand troop morale in all facets of this debate so thank you for having the courage to fix the real problem with use it or lose it with your end of year fiscal responsibility act. So anyone who is concerned about lobster gate should support your bill because it is a real fix and you have been a leader in so many other areas. You stop secret spending at close loophole that are literally concealing billions in spending. I would call these orwellian transaction agreements.
▶ 0:47:26We worked together to stop $1.2 billion and going to china and russia. Taxpayer money and grants. Legislation to bring us closer to real-time transparency which the founders would have written into the constitution if they had access to today's technology. A police report that today representatives josh, a republican from oklahoma, and jimmy panetta, a democrat from california have introduced bipartisan legislation on the house to do just that.
▶ 0:47:58The expedited transparency act builds on the success -- which created usa spending and put all government spending online for the first time. In the scope of history, transparency is radical and revolutionary. State secrecy is the norm. Technologies like ai can tilt the scales in either direction.
▶ 0:48:19At open the books, we are working to create super intelligent citizens because we believe the best way to thwart a surveillance state is with a surveillance citizenry that can track spending so thank you again and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you, Mr. hart. Last but not least, we will go to Mr. arkin and you are recognized for five minutes for your testimony. >> chair ernst, ranking member markey, members of the committee, thank you so much for inviting me to speak at today's hearing.
▶ 0:48:49The federal government is one of the world's largest and most complex organization and access to quality data on the broad array of spending is important for policymaking, oversight of federal dollars, and fostering public trust in government.
▶ 0:49:04My remarks today will highlight aspects of gao's large body of work on the federal government's efforts to improve the quality, transparency, and accessibility of information on federal programs and spending as well as challenges that require additional attention. I will start by discussing usa spending which has been talked about before.
▶ 0:49:24It's the government's official public source of federal spending data and over the last two decades, both congress and the executive branch have taken steps to improve the quality and transparency of spending data available on the website. Gao continues to identify challenges that make it difficult for policymakers and the public to have access to complete and reliable data on the website.
▶ 0:49:50For example, not all types of federal wars are reported to spending to federal agencies were not consistently reporting spending on other transaction agreements which are a particular type of award that provides more flexibility than a standard contract or grant.
▶ 0:50:08And as an example, we identified over $77 billion in other transaction agreements that the department of defense awarded over the last five fiscal years and that information was not recorded on usa spending pin one recent federal agencies may not consistently report with other transaction agreements on the website is that federal law neither explicitly includes nor excludes them as a type of award that agencies are required to report.
▶ 0:50:36We suggested that congress amend the law to include other transaction agreements among the types of awards agencies must report. Enacting the stop secret spending act which chair ernst introduced would be consistent with that suggestion. Next, I will turn to improper payments which are payments that federal agencies make that should not have been made or that were made in the incorrect amount. Improper payments have been a persistent challenge for the federal government.
▶ 0:51:04Agencies are required to determine which of the programs they administer are susceptible to significant improper payments and publish estimates on those programs. For example, for fiscal year 2025, federal agencies reported a total of 100 86 billion dollars in improper payments.
▶ 0:51:23However, gao has long -- the improper payment estimates do not include certain programs that are susceptible to improper payments and as a result, the total reported amount of improper payments does not represent the full extent of improper payments.
▶ 0:51:41Another source of publicly available information to the federal government is the federal program inventory eight website which I is required to develop and annually update and in recent years, it made process towards developing a complete inventory.
▶ 0:51:56In a report we issued earlier this month, the inventory does not get include all programs such as defense or foreign assistance and it does not provide all required information such as each programs contribution to its agencies mission and goals. We made 17 recommendations related to implementing a complete inventory and enhancing its usefulness.
▶ 0:52:25The freedom of information act requires federal agencies to provide the public with access to certain government records either by request or through what is known as preemptive disclosure. We have reported that federal agencies face persistent challenges, processing requests within required time frames and we have found weaknesses and some agency policies and processes to comply with proactive disclosure requirements.
▶ 0:52:53We made various recommendations to it -- to address these challenges which would help fulfill the goal of improving public access to government information and help promote principles of openness and accountability in government. This concludes my prepared remarks and I look forward to any questions you may have. >> thank you again to all of our witnesses. We will move into questions and answers and I will now recognize myself for five minutes for questions. Thank you all for being here today.
▶ 0:53:23I started my political career years ago as a county auditor. In southwest iowa. You bring up the issue of use it or lose it.
▶ 0:53:38We battled to this even at the lowest local level, we had county agencies that were out there, trying to spend as much money as they could in september because they believe the board of supervisors would not improve and increase in their budget the next year if they had not spent all of that money. So I know that's what happens in the federal government. That is not the way we should operate. It is very sloppy. To do it in that manner.
▶ 0:54:08So thank you so much for bringing that up. Mr. arkin, your testimony today included the jaw-dropping is that the pentagon, going back to this, I spent over 77 billion dollars on those ota's or other transaction agreements and that the information is not available on a searchable public website like usa spent -- usaspending Dr. oz.
▶ 0:54:37Thanks to the great work of gao -- usaspending.gov. They are reported on the website just like all of the of their government spending. Gao found that tens of billions of dollars of pentagon ota's are not being included for inspection on that website.
▶ 0:55:03Another gao study released last year found the pentagon cannot assess the extent to which ota's are delivering capabilities for war fighters. There simply no record available to search. Would greater tracking and transparency improve the ability to measure and improve the effectiveness of those ota's for both taxpayers and servicemembers? >> thank you for the question. Yes, absolutely. I will talk about two different things.
▶ 0:55:35I mentioned the legislation that has been introduced which would require ota's to be reported. We believe that is an important thing to improve transparency for this type of agreement or a word which is not a contract, not a grant, but still is providing financial information to a nongovernmental institution or organization and secondly, what we found is these ota's are often used for prototypes within the department of defense to
▶ 0:56:05Test a new technology or product and sometimes it can then move to the production phase and that can also be through an ota or regular contract and what dod had not been tracking or has not been tracking is what happens, how many of those are moving to a regular production contract and that is something they need to do to get a sense of our these ota's working, are they doing what we envisioned?
▶ 0:56:26They are designed to bring nontraditional contractors into the acquisition space from the department but it's really hard to tell if you are not tracking it. >> checks and balances, absolutely. Mr. hart, keeping with this thing -- the theme of ota's as well, how would agencies reporting tens of billions of dollars have ota's on usa spending. -- on usaspending.gov help organizations shed light on wasteful spending across the federal government?
▶ 0:56:59>> yes, senator, that's an ascent -- that's an essential step. It is a profound violation of the spirit of the constitution. In my opening statement, I talked about the founders wrote it into the constitution that congress should publish a regular statement of account and that exists before the first amendment.
▶ 0:57:20Free speech is widely important but we cannot speak if we cannot breathe so whenever there is a move to create a new section of spending that is secretive regardless of who is in power, we need to stop it and call it out and I commend you and the committee for focusing on it. >> Mr.
▶ 0:57:36Goodman, in 2022, four years ago, I authored a provision that made it into law called the cost act which requires grantees to disclose how many federal tax dollars they used, what percentage of their costs were federal funds and how much was financed by nongovernmental sources? How will this increased transparency improve your ability to identify and stop wasteful spending?
▶ 0:58:06>> taxpayers have a right to know how their money is being spent and they should not need a data science degree to navigate a federal database to figure that out. It should not take watchdogs like us to give taxpayers basic information like a highway sign that says your tax dollars at work, showing you you pay for that program.
▶ 0:58:24If you see a news report about monkey mind reading or octopus hypnosis, yes, that silly science but you should be able to get a sense of whether that is senseless spending at your expense. What the cost act does is it gives basic transparency to taxpayers across the spectrum you have a right to know how their money is being spent. >> thank you.
▶ 0:58:51Now, I will recognize the ramping -- ranking member hassan five minutes of questions. >> thank you, madam chair. I just loved it. By the way, for everyone here who was not a freshman when I had to read it, you are probably in catholic school, too. It's how a senior devil learns how to teach a junior devil how to corrupt humanity, ok?
▶ 0:59:13Or for the purposes of our discussion, that is donald trump as the senior devil, trying to corrupt humanity. So just in february of 2025, one of his first order as well as to suspend the enforcement of the foreign corrupt practices act, suspend it, which they did. And then six months later, they issued the new rules and there is a watering down of all of the requirements.
▶ 0:59:42What could go wrong with this family and friends roaming around the world, cutting business deals other than a watering down of the foreign corrupt practices act? One third fewer prosecutors now at the agency then there was when he took over, trying to create a climate of corruption.
▶ 1:00:01So even this morning, new york times reported that the trump administration bypass regular procedures to award $13 million in contracts to the company that organized trump's destructive democracy threatening rally on january 6 of 2021. Those contracts made a minor federal contractor into the government's highest-paid event planner.
▶ 1:00:28Seems like exactly the kind of thing that we should be looking at on sunshine week. The new york times has given us an agenda. Dr. miller, how does secrecy in government decision-making create opportunities for corruption, for favoritism, or the misuse of taxpayer funds? >> yes, transparency is absolutely essential.
▶ 1:00:52Without transparency, congress loses its eyes and ears and the american people lose its protection from abuse so it's absolutely essential that the american people know what the government is doing in its name. >> if there is one principle that everyone should know when it comes to transparency, what would you say is one lesson this committee should draw from your testimony? What's that government spending should be transparent and that congress is in control of the person.
▶ 1:01:19>> can you elaborate upon the risk which doge presents to this transparency ethos? Quotes just the basic functionality was highly problematic.
▶ 1:01:33To get access to government data from each federal employee is required to have a security clearance so the fact that we had so many unvented folks accessing sensitive data is actually a threat to the american people >> and could you elaborate upon the safeguards or other legitimate agencies would use to protect americans personal data which has been compromised across our government under the trump
▶ 1:02:05Administration customer >> the first thing it will do is require you to have a security clearance to access the data and then they will restrict the database on the need to know meeting you only get level of access based on its necessity for you to do your job and then you have to follow a set of rules thereafter. Quite so it got asked -- access to the social security data which basically outlines how much everyone earned, their age, everything.
▶ 1:02:27Just pretty much the rate of each family so doge got access to that private security data so what is it -- what has it resulted in in terms of the exposure of the corruption in society? >> you know, at this point, the impact is still on set but we do know that it has put the american people at risk for all sorts of malfeasance.
▶ 1:02:54>> so how they identified widespread fraud after gaining access to all of that information? >> not to my knowledge. >> do you have a sense of how much it cost taxpayers? Do we have transparency on that? >> any ranges between 40 to 81 million but those are public. >> that is -- is at the ballpark figure? That's not fenway park if you're looking for a ballpark figure. More like yellowstone park.
▶ 1:03:25Give us the number. You know? Let us know. That kind of range allows for a lot of fraud when you cannot pinpoint what the number is and if you could, what do you think should be the standards that are applying in terms of their transparency, the ethics that should be infused into that agency?
▶ 1:03:48>> from the beginning, I'm not for sure that it should have been deployed into the federal agency but now that it has, we need to make sure we are allowing the inspector general's office to produce oversight over their work. >> great. Thank you. >> thank you, ranking member markey. We will recognize senator shaheen for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair for holding this hearing and thank you to all of our witnesses for being here.
▶ 1:04:15Since the senator raised the issue and their effectiveness, I wanted to follow up on that because we are here to talk about the value of transparency in government spending, especially because it's a way for not only taxpayers to know what is going on but to expose inappropriate spending. It was the focus of that effort at the start of this administration. They pledged to have maximum transparency. That is a quote.
▶ 1:04:45And while they boasted about a lot of very large savings on their public dashboard that they said totaled 215 billion, those numbers simply are not accurate. In fact, the 13 largest contracts on that list are all in accurate.
▶ 1:05:02Can I ask each of you if you have looked at the list doge has posted and you have any comments on the accuracy and what it means when we provide inaccurate information to the public, Mr. goodman? >> thank you, senator. I have actually found the list to be incomplete in my searching. I heard that projects were cut that were not on the list of cuts.
▶ 1:05:31I heard that projects were still active that were on the cut list. There's been a lot of inaccurate misleading information spread by the press but also the doge folks who have not been forthcoming and don't have the ability or the tools necessary to track what is going on. So it has been frustrating because I think there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in the federal government and government spending.
▶ 1:05:57We all agree on that on this panel and I think we have a right to know what the government is doing about it if they are slashing programs that don't deserve it. Are they getting rid of programs that we all agree did not deserve public support? I think there absolutely needs to be more transparency about this type of decisions. >> Dr. miller? >> I will follow-up with you. We have a democratic accountability team that are tracking those things and we are following. >> so you don't have any assessment based on what you have seen to date?
▶ 1:06:27>> the assessment that we have is that the information in the government has provided has been inefficient or has not been a good way to be able to assess doge's activities. >> we looked at this very closely. When I worked for senator coburn, we talked about cutting $1 trillion in spending and I would argue we actually did it over a long period of time. We cut spending 150 billion dollars during sequestration that happened in the wake of the financial crisis.
▶ 1:07:01We enacted and earmarked -- yes, going way back. >> I supported that effort. I don't think that's what we got from doge however. >> I think there's a long way to go and we got rid of 140 billion dollars in savings through earmarks and we work with gao to identify duplication savings and that say 725 billion dollars over 15 years according to their data.
▶ 1:07:26What I have seen is there's a lot to look at and a lot to cut and when you think to take a 50,000 foot perspective, we saved $5 trillion on health care in the country overall, $2 trillion to government programs. The pete peterson foundation estimates may be a quarter of that is not spent effectively. That area alone, there's hundreds of billions of dollars in waste.
▶ 1:07:51I wish they would have leveraged elon musk's star power more effectively to shine a light on the systemic problems and government inefficiency. >> I don't disagree with that. The fact is one of the first things they cut as you all know was usaid and while I think there were some excesses in usaid, the reality is there was no transparency about the way it was cut and there are significant implications to the
▶ 1:08:23Results of cutting all of our foreign assistance from other countries. I'm almost out of time and I want to make another point because we are talking about spending. One of the other issues we ought to be talking about with respect to sunshine week and transparency are policies.
▶ 1:08:40We are engaged right now in a war in iran that follows a military action in venezuela that precedes what the president is talking about with respect to action in cuba and we have not had one public hearing on the decision-making around the policies on this iran war.
▶ 1:09:04All of the information has been classified which means that those of us who have attended those briefings -- I know the chairwoman has attended those briefings as have the senate is because I have been with them in some of those because we all sit on the armed services committee. And yet there is nothing that I have learned in those briefings unless it has been publicly reported that I can tell my constituents about why we are there, what the endgame is, and we hope to accomplish.
▶ 1:09:35That is a travesty in terms of the amount of money that is being spent on this war, the implications to the american public that there has not been one public hearing. So I think for the record, that needs to be said because it's a huge oversight that does a disservice to the american people. Thank you, madam. >> you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair.
▶ 1:10:04I would like to begin by associating -- associating myself at the comments made by the senator just now. As we sit here today to talk about sunshine week, sounds good. But I question the seriousness of this effort to bring sunshine into government spending.
▶ 1:10:29Basically, we have a president who by any measure has been the least transparent of any president in recent history. We look at what happened to doge .
▶ 1:10:42They were the people who were supposed to bring about the effort to cut waste and fraud, etc., but instead, doge ended up costing us money and there's very little to nothing about what doge was doing that was transparent and at the same time, the doge employees, whoever these people were, whatever qualifications they had to even undertake any of the kinds of efforts that doge was supposed to focus on, what they
▶ 1:11:13Did with their access to millions of personnel records, to this day, I do not know what these people did or plan to do with all of this information. We have a president who basically engages in self dealing and pretty much, we are not far wrong in thinking that whatever he does is intended to help himself and his family and that is why he has made in just a period of time in which he has held office for billion dollars
▶ 1:11:47-- $4 billion. He's $4 billion richer than when -- since he took office. We talk about transparency, we talk about accountability. Where is the accountability in a president who engages in the kind of self-dealing that we see from this president and the chaos in accepting a $400 million -- destroying half of the white house and accepting hundreds of millions of dollars in donations and contributions
▶ 1:12:18From entities, many of whom are awaiting decisions relating to their businesses, their interests by the white house. I feel like saying, please, don't make me laugh at this effort at transparency. I do want to ask Mr. miller one question. If you were to describe what doge is up to, how would you describe doge?
▶ 1:12:44>> I would describe doge as an ill-fated attempt to reduce government spending and the outfit that may have put taxpayer data at risk. >> do you think it had any kind of a blueprint or anything that guided what they were doing? >> I think they were trying to move fast, you know, fail fast, but unfortunate, they put the american taxpayers data at risk.
▶ 1:13:13>> would a word like chaotic efforts, would that be a pretty accurate way of describing what they were doing? >> yes, because decisions around programs should always follow certain protocols. >> how about total lack of accountability? That describe how doge behavior? >> that is an accurate scription. >> we have -- description. >> we have a regime that does not even bother to obey court orders.
▶ 1:13:42We have any suggestions of how we can look to a regime that would actually abide by court orders? Do we have any suggestions of what we in congress can do to ensure accountability along those lines? >> I think a long-term strategy is we have to make accountability bipartisan again, recognizing we owe it to the american people to ensure that whoever is president, that they are doing the right things in their name.
▶ 1:14:11>> that would be nice but on the other hand, we don't have that apparently bipartisan goal for accountability so short of that, is there some kind of an institution or change that we can make to force us -- force the administration committed regime to comply with court orders? >> some of the things that we can do is ensure we are strengthening and protecting the inspector general's office.
▶ 1:14:40They have investigative authority and so I think it's important to strengthen the institutions that we have. >> we also have a regime that got rid of another -- a lot of the ids and that doesn't help when we want independent agencies c1 to call attention to that. Thank you.
▶ 1:15:06>> I would like to be clear that under the trump administration we have been charged with rooting out fraud, waste, and abuse. During the pandemic, I will focus is on the small business committee. The small business administration. During the pandemic and under president biden's administration, loans were given out like candy.
▶ 1:15:37Let's not forget that the individuals who use barbie dolls for their photo identification were approved. That is unexceptional. Because of that work, he was the
▶ 1:16:08Equivalent of millions of dollars. Where they listed the borrower. As 11 years old. We should be ferreting that out.
▶ 1:16:38What we saw it was they tried to sweep it under the rug. I did not like that. Those dollars went out the door. I would like to see fraud enforcement extension.
▶ 1:17:13Right now the bill is being blocked by my friends across the aisle.
▶ 1:17:20Sen. Hirono: No one is talking about that.
▶ 1:17:25Sen. Ernst: You did actually use all of your time. You did use all of your time. The fraudsters who defrauded the federal government will get away with it. I don't know why democrats would block the bill. When it means it would be too for improper payments.
▶ 1:18:04Sen. Ernst: I will quickly ask you, if my bill is not passed bythey will . How that affects the government's ability to recover a stolen cash? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 1:18:28Sen. Ernst: If the statute of limitations expires, prosecutors will not be able to recoup that. We have been supportive of that. That has already happened.
▶ 1:19:00Sen. Ernst: Thank you. I do appreciate all of the thoughts today. I think it has been a really important conversation. To have everyone here. There is a lot more that we should be doing the federal government. I want to stress that this should not matter. Between a democratic administration or a republican administration.
▶ 1:19:30Sen. Ernst: We need transparency and we need to be accountable to our taxpayers for all of those dollars going out the door. I want to thank you again for being witnesses today. Sharing your thoughts. I ask unanimous consent of the record of today's hearing remain open for two weeks for questions. Add additional information. With that, thank you all again.
▶ 1:20:02Sen. Ernst: Happy sunshine week. The committee on small business and entrepreneurship stands adjourned.