▶ 0:45:01>> the subcommittee to order. Today's topic is protecting american citizenship, federalism, sanctuary cities and the rule of law. The topic is unfortunately timely as americans have been inundated with stories of fellow americans victimized by criminal illegal aliens who have been shielded by the sanctuary jurisdictions.
▶ 0:45:25I will start with my opening statement and then my friend and making number welch will get his opening remarks. Senator cornyn and then senator durbin after that. We will swear everybody in and go down the line. There are moments when a policy debate stops being a policy debate. When all the abstractions fall away. When the buzzword 10 talking points and legal jargon fall away.
▶ 0:45:53What we are left with is a simple question about the first duty of government. Sanctuary policies force this question. This is not really about federalism or local control. It's not about compassion. It's about who comes first. The american citizen or the illegal alien? Sanctuary jurisdictions have answer that question whether laws, with their policies and their conduct. They put the illegal alien first.
▶ 0:46:24That is what a sanctuary policy means in the real world. An illegal alien commits a crime and gets arrested by local law enforcement. That arrest tells government exactly where the person is. Federal immigration authorities then make a very simple request. Let us know when the person is released so we can take them into custody and begin the removal proceedings. That is not some extraordinary burden. That's not a constitutional crisis. That is not conscription.
▶ 0:46:56It is basic cooperation. The kind of coordination that happens every day between state, local and federal law enforcement in every other context. Yet when the subject is immigration, sanctuary jurisdictions refuse. They withhold the information, block, the transfer release the alien. In this and the alien back to the community. That is a choice. A deliberate choice. It is a choice to get people hurt. Sometimes it gets people killed.
▶ 0:47:27The defenders of these policies always want to keep this debate at a level of theory. They want to talk about values and discussion and trust and constitutional structure and never about the consequences. The consequences are the story. The consequences look like lincoln riley, murdered by an illegal alien who was still turned loose in a system that puts ideology ahead of public safety.
▶ 0:47:54Consequences look like stephanie mentor, an american mother whose killer was shielded by fairfax county's sanctuary policies. The consequences look like an 18-year-old college student in chicago shot in the back while walking with friends by an illegal alien who had already been caught at the border, released, rested again and then released again.
▶ 0:48:21They look like katie abraham, young woman in illinois killed by an illegal immigrant drunk driver who had already been deported once, reenter the country and evaded the laws thanks to sanctuary policies. These are not freak accidents. They are not acts of god.
▶ 0:48:42They are foreseeable consequences of public officials making a conscious decision to obstruct immigration enforcement, these people who should never have been released on the streets in the first place. Then after it happens, the same people who made the choices hide behind the language of principal. Let's be honest about that. The anti-commandeering doctrine is not a suicide pact. It does not require local officials to sabotage federal law enforcement.
▶ 0:49:13It does not require them to conceal release dates. It is not require them to dump removable criminal aliens back into the public and pretend their hands are tied. This is not constitutional fidelity. This is political evasion. It is taking a theory it meant to protect the balance of our system and using it to cover for lawlessness. That is what sanctuary policy really is. Lawlessness dressed up as principal.
▶ 0:49:41It says federal immigration law can be ignored, cooperation is optional, the safety of the american people comes second to an ideological project. That brings us back to the question at the center of the hearing. Who comes first? To american citizens trying to raise a family, go to school, walk home safely and live in peace, or the illegal alien with no right to be here and in many cases has already shown he's a danger to the public?
▶ 0:50:11Sanctuary policies answer that question every single time. Every time they refuse to notify I.c.e., refused to honor a detainer, they release a removable criminal alien instead of coordinating a transfer. Every time they treat immigration laws as an optional suggestion is that of the law the united states of america. Every single time their answers the same. The illegal alien comes first.
▶ 0:50:38Not laken riley, not katie abraham. The illegal alien. Mr. abraham said plainly in his op-ed, "my daughter katie was killed by men who should never have been here." he was right. Policies that predictably create victims are not moral, no matter how compassionately the politicians describe them. An empty chair remains of the family table.
▶ 0:51:07Morning teachers will appear at more family tables on this week end this madness. It is uncomfortable for some of my friends on the other side to confront the reality that there sanctuary policies and open border ideology are producing preventable crimes against american citizens. We must confront it. Sanctuary policies are giving american citizens killed -- getting american citizens killed.
▶ 0:51:34The americans know the americans k people know it. This does not require new theories or sweeping innovations. It requires nothing more than restoring the most basic principle of government, that american citizens come first. State and local governments should cooperate with federal immigration enforcement and allow the government to do his job, deport criminal illegal aliens, prioritize american citizens over the demands of radical ideology. That is not extreme. That is common sense.
▶ 0:52:05At its core this hearing turns on a simple question. When the choice is presented, alert federal immigration authorities and protect the community or release the illegal alien, who comes first? The american citizen should come first every time. Laken riley, stephanie minter, katie abraham should come first. The american people have answer that question. It is time for congress to insist on the same. I turned it over to senator welch.
▶ 0:52:33Sen. Welch: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. We have tremendous witnesses here today on this incredibly important topic. I agree that public safety is absolutely essential and comes first and is the first obligation of government. We have law enforcement people who are here and I going to be testifying about this so-called sanctuary city policy and how it weighs in.
▶ 0:52:58Sen. Welch: The assertion here is that the state and local law enforcement should be assisting in the immigration policy of the president, led by stephen miller. That includes right now an approach towards mass round ups. That assertion is wrong. Our local law enforcement agencies have an extraordinary responsibility to protect the citizens in the communities they serve.
▶ 0:53:28Sen. Welch: They are not there to be an adjunct to implement a policy of the president particularly as the mass deportation. We are in a situation where we made real progress. The border is secure. Mr. chairman, don't tell the president I said this but he deserves some credit for that. We will keep that on the down low. We also agree we should be deporting violent criminals. That is there.
▶ 0:53:56Sen. Welch: Where we are having a dispute is the policy implemented by I.c.e. Of mass deportation and round ups. Number one, he claimed we are going up to the worst of the worst. But only 14% of immigration arrests are for violent criminals. Instead, in order to be what had been quotas emitted by Mr. miller, immigration agencies are rating farms and factories, schools and hospitals.
▶ 0:54:25Sen. Welch: This is wrong and it does not make us more safe. It is creating difficulties for local law enforcement to meet their obligations to their own citizens. In our communities around the country we are reeling from the harm of that, which is from my point of view what we saw in minneapolis, a rampage. The department of inland security has really caused -- homeland security has caused incredible harm in our communities.
▶ 0:54:53Sen. Welch: Our law enforcement age, including in vermont -- we had an incident last week or two weeks ago where the I.c.e. Agent from boston came to vermont to arrest a person. They did not notify local law enforcement. They didn't even notify vermont I.c.e. Then got into a confrontation where local law enforcement really had to keep the peace.
▶ 0:55:24Sen. Welch: There was literally no communication or cooperation from I.c.e. Our law enforcement folks were shocked at the lack of communication which is such an essential component of how law enforcement agencies work together to keep the peace. We saw in minneapolis.
▶ 0:55:45Sen. Welch: A police chief in minneapolis said we cannot let people in our community think our local law enforcement leadership is ok with actions that are not only wrong but illegal. Mr. president, there's a question here. Local law enforcement has an obligation for local public safety. The job is not to be an adjunct to ice. That is not their job it is difficult when we have an I.c.e.
▶ 0:56:17Sen. Welch: That has overreached, exceeded its authority, acted in a way that demonstrates the lack of training. A lot of us have been insisting I.c.e. Have the same training and obligations to their responsibilities, as every law enforcement agency has. It's a hard job, law enforcement. It takes aggression and restraint. It takes an immense amount of emotional self-control.
▶ 0:56:48Sen. Welch: We are all totally devoted to the people who protect us but it's the job the local law enforcement to protect the citizens and their communities. It is not just an abstraction, Mr. chairman. As justice scalia and justice alito indicated, the 10th amendment guarantees the federal government cannot force the federal government cannot force state and local governments to assist in enforcing federal law.
▶ 0:57:14Sen. Welch: This is about protecting the right of local communities to protect local communities. Our state and local law enforcement people have a strong and very valid interest in directing their own personnel and resources towards the issues their communities care about most. Thank you, Mr. chairman, and I look forward to this hearing.
▶ 0:57:34Chair Schmitt: Senator cornyn.
▶ 0:57:38Sen. Cornyn: Thank you for letting me make a brief opening statement. This past weekend we heard about another illegal alien in the sanctuary city of chicago killing an innocent leola college student. No parent should have to go through what her family has had to go through, and what Mr. abraham's family has had to go through.
▶ 0:58:05Sen. Cornyn: What's more devastating is the attitude of everybody from the governor on down that they have no responsibility whatsoever to deal with public safety threats. They seem deaf to the cries of many families who needlessly lost children and loved ones. Joe abraham's daughter was killed last year in illinois after an illegal alien drunk driver caused an accident that took her life.
▶ 0:58:35Sen. Cornyn: What did the leaders of illinois, like the governor and others, have to say to Mr. abraham and his family? Nothing. Sadly, katie abraham's death likely could have been prevented if sanctuary cities and states like chicago, illinois would cooperate with I.c.e.
▶ 0:59:02Sen. Cornyn: It's an interesting argument that local law enforcement bears no responsibility to help assist in the public safety mission when it involves federal authorities. There is no law that requires that. In fact, our brave men and women who wear the uniform of local and state law enforcement are dedicated to public safety.
▶ 0:59:27Sen. Cornyn: But how they can stand by because the politicians and those -- in those jurisdictions say you cannot assist federal law enforcement is something I will never understand. We hear stories of individuals harmed by criminal aliens released into the community by sanctuary jurisdictions. Many times, often these criminals offend over and over again.
▶ 0:59:56Sen. Cornyn: Who do the sanctuary policies protect? Certainly not U.S. citizens or the local communities where they reside or they happen to commit their offenses. Or even alien to follow the law. Came to the united states legally. In fact, many of the victims of the crimes committed by illegal aliens are people in our minority communities.
▶ 1:00:24Sen. Cornyn: The reality is that sanctuary policies only protect the wrongdoers, the criminals. According to a recent poll, 75% of the american people support deporting people who are not legally authorized to stay here in the united states. Particularly criminal aliens. Why is it so difficult for our democratic colleagues to stand with the american people, 75%, with the american people, 75%?
▶ 1:00:56Sen. Cornyn: Why is it our democratic colleagues find it so hard to simply support enforcement of the law that congress has passed? Perhaps it's because they are too beholden to radical progressive members of the political base or perhaps they can't shake trump derangement syndrome. Look at the laken riley act. Signed into law by president trump.
▶ 1:01:26Sen. Cornyn: Even though the act clearly targeted some of the worst of the worst criminal aliens, including those who assault law enforcement officers or cause serious bodily harm or death to another individual, 33 democrats and two independents voted against that legislation. As tom homan has stated time and time again, I.c.e.
▶ 1:01:47Sen. Cornyn: And customs and border protection when they're ready to go into the communities like they did in minneapolis with the two tragic deaths occurred of individuals who determine if they wanted to interfere with a law enforcement operation. That would never occur if local communities would cooperate with I.c.e., honor their detainers and see individual safely removed from the country and out of local jails.
▶ 1:02:20Sen. Cornyn: Taking custody of a criminal alien in jail is far safer and better than putting our law enforcement in the community at large at risk. Instead of trying to defund I.c.e., which now are democratic colleagues are in the process of doing once again that refusing to fund the department of homeland security, including I.c.e., instead of trying to defund I.c.e.
▶ 1:02:46Sen. Cornyn: We need to fully fund I.c.e., or, here's a concept, legislators need to legislate. If we don't like the way the laws are enforced by our dedicated law enforcement officials, is the policies we promulgated in the past and those laws can be amended if there is sufficient justification for it. In this instance there is none. These laws need to be enforced. I.c.e.
▶ 1:03:14Sen. Cornyn: And homeland security need to be fully funded in order to perform their critical missions, including identifying, detaining and removing criminal aliens and terrorists -- yes, even terrorists from the country. I would note according to a list of sanctuary jurisdictions but a by the department of justice last year, there are only 11 states and district of columbia that are considered sanctuary jurisdictions.
▶ 1:03:44Sen. Cornyn: Not surprisingly, most of them are run by democrat governors or mayors. There is no good reason for these states to be out of step with what most americans support, which is immigration enforcement when it comes to criminal aliens. We should also not be funneling any federal dollars to any state or locality that continues to protect criminal aliens over american citizens and other law-abiding immigrants as well. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:04:14Chair Schmitt: Senator durbin.
▶ 1:04:17Sen. Durbin: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Last week, a few miles from my place in chicago, sheridan gorman, an 18-year-old student at loyola university was tragically murdered. My heart goes out to her family, friends and faculty and students of loyola.
▶ 1:04:42Sen. Durbin: 's medina -- josé medina has been charged with her murder. He was arrested in 2023 for shoplifting. He did not appear for his hearing so a bench warrant was issued for his arrest. This information was available to the federal government, but medina was not detained by I.c.e. During the fight and where the trump administration.
▶ 1:05:11Sen. Durbin: This committee is the right place to have a series bipartisan conversation about how to prevent further tragedies like this. I'm sorry that the department of homeland security and republican members of this committee have decided this is going to be a political free-for-all. Our broken immigration system is in desperate need of bipartisan reform. We need order at the border. I have said this repeatedly and I will say it again.
▶ 1:05:42Sen. Durbin: We should never knowingly allow a dangerous person to come into this country. If someone is in this country seeking citizenship or legal status and commits a serious crime, they should be deported immediately. Let's start there. Is that a good bipartisan start? I hope so. President trump campaign on you going after that he would go after the worst of the worst. Rapists, murderers, terrorist, criminally insane and other dangerous individuals. What does the record show for his I.c.e. Efforts to date?
▶ 1:06:16Sen. Durbin: Six out of the seven people who have been detained, arrested, some deported were not violent criminals at all. They had virtually no criminal record. Frankly, they were in a situation where there was no reason to stop. Six out of seven. So much for the accuracy of I.c.e.'s efforts. Neither administrations have delivered on promises made.
▶ 1:06:42Sen. Durbin: President trump's reckless mass deportation campaign has not made a safer. Congress needs to step up and do our job. Fix our broken immigration system. Some of the speeches you already hurt in this room given by individuals who had a chance to vote for bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform and voted no. For years I worked on a bipartisan basis.
▶ 1:07:06Sen. Durbin: There were eight of us 12 years ago led by senator john mccain, chuck schumer, myself, lindsey graham, marco rubio -- some familiar names. We worked to put together a comprehensive plan. We submitted it in 2013 to the congress. What to do? It secured our border with more resources than ever so the dangerous individuals could not enter our country.
▶ 1:07:38Sen. Durbin: If required strict vetting and tracking of all legal immigrants when they entered. Listen to this. If required all undocumented immigrants to register with the government and pass a background check. Those who passed or posed any threat will be subject to deportation. Others would pay a fine and taxes and go to the back of the line behind legal immigrants who would work toward citizenship over time. That bill passed this united states senate with over 60 votes.
▶ 1:08:10Sen. Durbin: Unfortunately, the republican house of representatives refused to even consider it. They did not bring it up for debate or discussion. We need to try again. We can continue to have these hearings and end up with nothing other than political rhetoric. Sadly, even our best efforts on a bipartisan basis will bring back -- won't bring back the victims. We can honor their memory by absolutely working together in a good-faith faith effort to prevent the tragedies like this in the future.
▶ 1:08:41Sen. Durbin: I'm ready to try again. >> may respond briefly? You were here when the bill was on the floor -- mark here when the bill was on the floor and I was. I'm sick and tired of our colleagues talking about a failed piece of legislation and somehow -- I bet it is cold comfort to Mr. abraham and other families who have lost loved ones.
▶ 1:09:08Sen. Durbin: Criminal aliens are here in united states thanks to four years of the biden open border policies and are praying on innocent american citizens. Our colleagues say we should have passed a bipartisan immigration law back in 2013, while they refused -- it is too much.
▶ 1:09:29Chair Schmitt: We will sort and the witnesses. It is tradition to swear in all the witnesses. Please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give to this committee is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? Thank you. I will introduce the majority witnesses. First up is jason miyares.
▶ 1:09:58Chair Schmitt: He served as the 40th attorney general of the commonwealth of virginia from 2022 to 2026. He's now a partner at the -- at torridon law. Coinciding with the launch of a public safety strategy targeting repeat violent offenders and directing resources to affect the communities -- affected communities. He's a proud husband and father of three and will come into the committee.
▶ 1:10:29Chair Schmitt: Jessica vaughan, the director of policy studies at the center for immigration studies where she has worked since 1992. She's an expert on immigration policy, including visa programs, immigration benefits and immigration enforcement and public safety. She has testified dozens of times, including before the U.S. house of representatives and the senate. Before joining the center, she was a foreign service officer with the state department. She has a masters degree from georgetown university and bachelor degree from washington college in maryland.
▶ 1:11:00Chair Schmitt: Mr. abraham, joe abraham, lifelong illinois resident, husband and father of three. A corporate finance professional at a fortune 50 company. He has dedicated his life to his family and community. Joe was the father of katie who was killed by a drunk driving illegal alien in january of 2025. Since her death he has spoken on national media, putting fox news and published multiple opposites to raise awareness about the impact of current policies on families like his. >> thank you.
▶ 1:11:32Chair Schmitt: We have sheriff clarence birkhead, who has been in law enforcement for 41 years in north carolina. The sheriff is an elected position and he got a modest 86% of the vote. He's pretty good, I got to say. He started out as a new deputy sheriff in one county. He has been spectacular in his career.
▶ 1:12:00Chair Schmitt: He was the leader of law enforcement at duke university and now he is the elected sheriff of durham county. He has incredible experience and what it takes to do good law enforcement, what it takes to cooperate with other agencies, including federal agencies. We are delighted to have you here. We also have stephen vladeck, well-known and frequent witness here.
▶ 1:12:25Chair Schmitt: Professor at georgetown university law center where he is recognized for his expertise on federal courts, the supreme court, national security and the author of a best selling book, " the shadow docket how the supreme court uses stealth rulings to amass power and undermine the republic." I respect that he's just a loving teacher. He pays attention to his students.
▶ 1:12:53Chair Schmitt: He has won many awards which I will not go through but I want to express to you my gratitude for your time. Thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:13:03Chair Schmitt: We will recognize witnesses for opening statement and will start with you, jason. [indiscernible] senator, I have trouble operating heavy equipment. I apologize for that. [laughter] stephanie was 41 years old, a mother from fredericksburg, virginia. Her family described as a beam of light in dark places.
▶ 1:13:33Chair Schmitt: On february 23 of this year, she was standing at a bus stop in fairfax county where she was stabbed to death. Her killer had been arrested more than 30 times and he was in this country illegally. A federal judge ordered his final removal six years ago. An I.c.e. Detainer was lodged in fairfax county refused to honor it. Police warned the prosecutor repeatedly that this man was a ticking time bomb, a menace, kill someone. The police were right. Stephanie mentor did not have to die.
▶ 1:14:04Chair Schmitt: That is why I am here today. I need this committee to understand something critical. Stephanie is not an isolated tragedy. She is tragically the most recent and visible name in a documented pattern of preventable harm and virginia. A pattern with a common cause, sanctuary policies.
▶ 1:14:22Chair Schmitt: In december of 2025, a fairfax county man was shot and killed in his own own home one day after an illegal alien with seven prior charges, including a prior murder charge, was released from jail. The I.c.e. Detainer was refused. The charges were dropped. He was freed. And then he killed a man.
▶ 1:14:49Chair Schmitt: The victim, an innocent virginian, could have been spare with one simple and quick known call from fair faction to every time c. Effort. A woman was raped on a popular walking trail in herndon.
▶ 1:15:10Chair Schmitt: A 4-year-old girl was nearly -- abducted in the middle of the night by an illegal alien who broke into her bedroom. The prosecutor progressively dismantled the charges other 18 months down toe a maryland.
▶ 1:15:33Chair Schmitt: And in the last few weeks alone, girls as young as 13 were groped repeated by in the hailways of fairfax high school by an illegal alien enrolled as a student. This is not incompetence or coincidence. This is policy.
▶ 1:15:57Chair Schmitt: Fairfax county commonwealth's attorney steve descano accomplished I'm on his own website.
▶ 1:16:12Chair Schmitt: "wherever possible, steve will make charging and plea decisions that limit or avoid immigration consequences." this is a formal, written policy giving critical illegal aliens preferential treatment in the justice system. It is not a discretion. It is discrimination.
▶ 1:16:37Chair Schmitt: The department of justice has been formally asked to open a civil rights investigation into his office. Let us be direct about the law. Immigration is not a cheryled power with state or local or federal authorities. It belongs exclusively to the federal government.
▶ 1:17:00Chair Schmitt: Congress has the hot to establish a uniform rule of natural decision ask not what we're seeing today, a match work of local noncompliance. It's affair active obstruction. Fairfax county police says that essentially you can release a man with 30 arrests and a federal removal order from your jail rather than let ice take them in.
▶ 1:17:27Chair Schmitt: This is not noncooperation but a choice to put violent criminals back on the street. What works? We saw it because virginia previously did it. Governor youngkin's executive or the 47 created a state immigration task force and within eight weeks, working together, 521 criminal illegal aliens were arrested including 100 of 132 gang members.
▶ 1:18:01Chair Schmitt: Governor spanberger has reversed governor youngkin's common-sense policies and says even if you are sitting in a prison, you cannot communicate with I.c. Effort. That is unconscionable. I believe government's first and fundamental duty is to protect the people it represents. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:18:34Chair Schmitt: Thank you. Mr. birkhead? >> thank you for the this opportunity to testifyify.
▶ 1:18:56Chair Schmitt: Throughout my career in public service, I have learned that for me to be successful as a law enforcement officer I needed to secure the trust of the community. I have never wavered from this focus to remain public focused and community oriented in my policing philosophy.
▶ 1:19:20Chair Schmitt: This is one reason I became a co-chair of law enforcement immigration task force, a nationwide group of law enforcement leader committed to immigration reforms that enhances safety and community trust. I have found that leaders at the local level know their communities well and are focused son ensuring public safety.
▶ 1:19:52Chair Schmitt: Given this, I believe that federal rich principles are best upheld when local jurisdictions are not impeded in how their limited resources can effectively protect their residents. In my opinion when local law enforcement is perceived as an extension of federal immigration authorities, the trust we all work to secure and maintain is eroded.
▶ 1:20:22Chair Schmitt: As a result, immigrant communities, both documented and undocumented, are more likely to fear engagement with local law enforcement and retreat into the shadows. When authorities believe partition pace could lead to deportation, they are less likely to participate.
▶ 1:20:51Chair Schmitt: Victims witnesses to violent crimes refuse to come forward and corp rite with investigation tsz. Our nation is facing long-standing and complex immigration issues that congress and federal agencies have been trying to solve for decades. Some policymakers have sought to mandate this state and local law enforcement, take on new immigration responsibilities.
▶ 1:21:16Chair Schmitt: However, the supreme court has repeated by held that the federal government cannot commandeer state and local officials to carry out federal regulatory programs. Federalism requires the respect of local law enforcement functions. The term "sanctuary city" the subject of this hearing, has not been defined in federal legislation. The term often obscures more than illuminates.
▶ 1:21:47Chair Schmitt: Durham county is not a sanctuary county. We follow state and local law, including giving state detention orders for review. Inever if it mandates holding an individual for 48 hours, we do so and we also notify I.c. Effort. We nope them again when the 48 hour clock starts.
▶ 1:22:16Chair Schmitt: As a law enforcement leader who must answer to voters, I prioritize local law enforcement above all else. I decide whether to participate in the 280-g program. The goal being to advance community trust and public safety.
▶ 1:22:39Chair Schmitt: This also means they work to ensure that the durham county sheriff's office upholds corps state and federal constitutional laws. Boarder czar tom holman laid outs immigration reporter, I agree with his approach.
▶ 1:23:04Chair Schmitt: I don't agree with targeting people without criminal records who pose no threat to public safety. Protecting american citizenship and the rule of law does not require us to turn our department into immigration offices. It requires autonomy in our cities and jurisdictions and let us serve as the professionals we are.
▶ 1:23:30Chair Schmitt: We all want to apprehend and offend violate offenders, regardless of their immigration status. I urge the subcommittee to support policies that empower local law enforcements to build barriers, not bridges.
▶ 1:23:50Chair Schmitt: Thank you, Ms. vaughan?
▶ 1:23:54Ms. Vaughan: Good afternoon and thank you. Today we come to you with another crime, this time in chicago. He had access to a driver's license and maybe even health care.
▶ 1:24:22Ms. Vaughan: More than half of all illegal aliens live in jurisdictions like chicago with policies that prohibit state and local law enforcement and I.c. Effort. They impose significant human and fiscal costs. My-o has been tracking policy since 2015 and we maintain a map and list on our website.
▶ 1:24:51Ms. Vaughan: The politicians who rely on sanksry claim that the federal government is trying to force local authorities to do the work of I.c.e. When in reality it is usually the local politicians printing local law enforcement from doing their jobs. Which means taking corrales off the streets.
▶ 1:25:19Ms. Vaughan: They claim that cooperation with I.c.e. Is a major distraction to local police when actually it just takes minutes to phone I.c.e. Or other communication, for example, about a deportable inmate's release. They claim it deranges local resources to cooperate with airport c.e. When in reality it costs just a few hours to honor a detainer.
▶ 1:25:46Ms. Vaughan: And generally speaking, enforcing immigration law is a barge for taxpayers. The average cost of a deportation -- 17,000 is much less than the cost of allowing an illegal alien to say which is about $70,000 over their lifetime. They claim that policies are needed to build trust with all I think grants so they feel comfortable reporting crimes.
▶ 1:26:13Ms. Vaughan: In fact, immigrants, including illegal immigrants historically report crimes at the same or higher rate as americans the truth is that sanctuary policies are an irrational political response based on a disagreement with federal immigration policy and opposition to enforcement of
▶ 1:26:43Ms. Vaughan: Immigration laws. While the motivations are ideal and political, ulf, the cobbs are very tang willable. From october of 2022 to february of 2025, jails in sanctuary districts declined more than 40,000 detainers. In just the first month of last year, jails in gordon declined 320 ice detainers or more than one a day.
▶ 1:27:13Ms. Vaughan: Dozens of those released had serious prior crimes. Including assault, sexual assault on a minor and even homicide. It happens in small jurisdictions too. From 2024 through early 2025 until north carolina passed a state anti-sinkry law, the durham jail failed to honor 33 deteenees.
▶ 1:27:39Ms. Vaughan: They had pending charges including deformed u.I., burglary, aggravated assault, and even homicide. There is no valid public safety reason not to cooperate with ice in these cases. Sanctuary supporters are you know moved by the pain their policies have caused american families of victims. Americans like sheridan gordon. Stephanie minter. Katei abraham. Denny mccann.
▶ 1:28:08Ms. Vaughan: Matthew denise, dominique durban. Laken riley and so many others whose priceless lives were lost as a result of sanctuary policies. Kong must help in clarifying that state and local accomplice have the authority to cooperate with ice so they cannot be blocked from doing so by state or local laws.
▶ 1:28:36Ms. Vaughan: Timely, those who are seriously harmed vault of sanctuary policies should have some recourse in the courts. Thank you.
▶ 1:28:46Chair Schmitt: Thank you. Professor vladeck? >> thank you for the inhave I ties testify before the subcommittee today.
▶ 1:29:04Chair Schmitt: By dividing power, not just horizontally among the branches of government by vertically between the federal government and the states all of our liberty would be best protected against tyranny and governmental lawlessness. As justice end said.
▶ 1:29:30Chair Schmitt: As justice scalia said in 199 as justice scalia said in 1 1997 -- >> the suck committee cannot administer a sinkry program. Were it otherwise, congress could usurp not just state policy forces but the president's discretion by compelling states to do what the president won't.
▶ 1:29:58Chair Schmitt: I would have thought this principle would be specially persuasive to those whose views of executive power are even broader than mine, alas. Second, the notion that the federal government cannot coerce the states is also reflected in the supreme court's spending injures prudens.
▶ 1:30:21Chair Schmitt: It's not true that congress's greater power to simile not spend money imply as lesser power to impose in and all conditions on whatever it spends news the supreme court has struck down spending conditions because at this point the federal government is effectively dick stating state policy, something it cannot do under they guise.
▶ 1:30:48Chair Schmitt: Even legitimate conditions must be both substantially related for the purposes to which congress is spending the money and clearly stated in the law. It must come from the clear language of statutes, not the him of executive order. Virtually none of this have been based on clear conditions.
▶ 1:31:14Chair Schmitt: I would have thought the subcommittee could be interested in the latent unconstitution that willity of those executive conditions. Alas. Neither the anti-commandeering doctrine allow states to impede law enforcement but there is a congress constitutionally kirill
▶ 1:31:46Chair Schmitt: Distinction between active obstruction and noncooperation. There may well be political points to be story scored in trying to collapse that distinction and in trying to coerce certain cities not to cooperate. The reality is that the law on this fronts, for better or for worse is particularly clear.
▶ 1:32:12Chair Schmitt: It is clear not only that a refusal to cooperate with federal law enforcement is not impermissible obstruction but that motives are, at least for constitutional purposes, entirely irrelevant. Whether one calls it a sanctuary jurisdiction or not, the constitution protects them all the same.
▶ 1:32:40Chair Schmitt: There are deep political and increasingly bipartisan disagreements. Some localities might choose to cooperate with federal immigration efforts. Others might sigh that as impeding the community relationships necessary to solve crimes or to threaten the liberty not just those of who are committing crimes but others who aren't.
▶ 1:33:12Chair Schmitt: Ultimately, whether or not to use such resources in order to aid france is one that the constitution commits to them. Members of the academy may have some volunteer hement disagreements.
▶ 1:33:33Chair Schmitt: I have some myles but states are allowed to have their own reasons for making their own choices and for those who think the government has made the wrong choices, there are remedies. They are in the state and local ballot boxes. Not in a state hearing room.
▶ 1:33:53Chair Schmitt: Mr. abraham? >> january 14, 2025 before that day I was a father enjoying the privilege of seeing their lives unfold.
▶ 1:34:22Chair Schmitt: After that day I became a father who buried his 20-year-old daughter. So before I begin, I want you to picture something pretty overed their. A car sitting at a red light. Five young friends inside, talking, laughing, having a normal night. My daughter katie was sitting in the back seat. The car wasn't moving. It was at a red light. In a single instant my daughter's life was gone.
▶ 1:34:51Chair Schmitt: A car going 80 miles per hour driven by an intoxicated illegal immigrant slammed into the back of them. They never saw it coming. The crack crushed the car. Twisted metal every. First stoppedders worked to pull katie's lifeless body from the wreckage. She didn't survive. He juan.
▶ 1:35:21Chair Schmitt: He was eventually scrap which you wered in milford, texas, trying to three the country and evade cat accountability for what he had done. His name is julio cucul-bol. A graduate mallon national who had already been deported once before.
▶ 1:35:44Chair Schmitt: Katie was a strong athlete, water polo and swam competitively through high school. She deserved a future of life, graduating college, following a career, fall in love. Instead that was stone at a red light at a streetlight in illinois.
▶ 1:36:10Chair Schmitt: The man who killed her described himself in court as unable to read or write or even speak spanish. His primary language was a mayan indigenous language from the mountainous regions of guatemala mountainous regions of guate guatemala. Yet somehow, this man possessed a valid illinois driver's license.
▶ 1:36:41Chair Schmitt: When those incentives exist, the consequences are not an tract. Families like mine live with them forever. My parents imgrated legally to the united states from a third world country. They came here for the opportunities america offered for people who followed the law and contributed to society.
▶ 1:37:06Chair Schmitt: My parents honored that opportunity and raised out to respect the law but that trust was broken whether the government sworn to protect its citizens, katie's death was flott inevitable. It was preventable. That's the question before in committee. Not whether crime exists in society. It always has. Not whether citizens commit more crime than aliens. That's a complete deflection and completely irrelevant to the types of these situations.
▶ 1:37:38Chair Schmitt: The question is whether policy decisions increase or decrease preventable risks. Did failures enforcement matter? Did gaps in coordination matter? Did policy choices create conditions that allowed this to happen? Those questions deserve clear answers because intentions don't save lives, results do. Katie is not a headline. She was not a statistic.
▶ 1:38:08Chair Schmitt: She was someone worth more than being ignored and made invisible, especially in my state. Just because her story was inconvenient. She was my daughter. She should be finishing school right now. She should be planning for her future. She should still be laughing with her family and friends.
▶ 1:38:33Chair Schmitt: Instead, her -- urn sits in a room yes contracted to honor her life. I captain bring indicatey back but in committee has the -- to fix this.
▶ 1:39:02Chair Schmitt: Katie received a death sentences that night. We received a life sentence. I ask which this committee that what happened to my daughter is expected honestly and steps are taken to fewer families ever have to stands where I stand. Thank you.
▶ 1:39:23Chair Schmitt: Thank you. Mr. miyares, I want to start with you. As you mentioned in your testimony, governor spanberger banned the cooperation with state opportunities. After the incident with stephanie minter, if something like that happened, they wouldn't even notify I.c. Effort.
▶ 1:39:51Chair Schmitt: Your former prosecutor, yuriorkis former attorney general, it makes it unlawful for any state or local official to restrict immigration sharing with federal immigration authorities. Do you believe or have any opinion as to whether the governor's order could be breaking federal law?
▶ 1:40:14Mrs. Miyares: I personally think she does but very successful policies under governor youngkin under executive order 70, cooperation with federal immigration authorities. To give you a perspective, if you are dealing with the virginia department of corrections, you're not picked on a d.u.I. Or petty larceny. You're a convicted felon serving-time in a prison, period. Not jail, prison.
▶ 1:40:45Mrs. Miyares: And even then, governor spanberger thinks that if you're a violent convicted felon sitting in a virginia prison, do not notify federal authorities and what is worse, senator, right now sitting on her desk is h.b.-1441 out of hitch monday. This bill would force, force every locality in the entire state of ja, 133 localities.
▶ 1:41:13Mrs. Miyares: 95 localities, 35 independent cities to adopt the same policy as fairfax county. It would be an absolute bar for them, even if a county wants to enter intro a 287-g agreement. Even then with this bill on her desk. She'll probably sign it in the dead of night to apiece her left base. It would be mandatory.
▶ 1:41:43Mrs. Miyares: I think it is an example of what happens too often in government where people ask citizens to judge them not by their results by by their intentions. Too many lives are being lost right now. I was with cheryl minter yesterday and it broke my heart to hear a private citizen so besides herself that as she suicide me, why do the politicians not get it? Why don't they get it?
▶ 1:42:12Mrs. Miyares: Why are so many of them sitting back and saying my daughter got stabbed multiple times by someone who had 30 -- 30 prior arrests. So you can see where the average citizens looks at what's happening and shake their head. And see what's happening not just in richmond but in washington with those who have cheerleaded these sanctuary policies so I do think it is a violation of federal lay of law.
▶ 1:42:45Mrs. Miyares: Thank you, Ms. vaughan, your testimony urges congress to penalize those who obstruct this. One thing might be conditioning federal municipal bond funding on a jurisdiction certifying that it's note a sanctuary city. How would that work? Like a minute?
▶ 1:43:13Mrs. Miyares: >> currently municipal bonds are tax exempt and I think the adoption of sanctuary policies, which I believe many are operate which I believe many are oper operating in vials of federal law section 16 3 and 1634.
▶ 1:43:30Mrs. Miyares: That's a governance issue and it's affecting public safety and -- the fiscal standing of these jurisdiction and it's important that investors be informed about that and also that these municipalities that are in vials of federal law not be able to be subsidized by taxpayers when they have serious governance issues like this. >> thank you.
▶ 1:43:58Mrs. Miyares: >> it makes it more expensive for them also to borrow money. >> thank you. Mr. abraham, first of all, thank you for being here. As I talked to you before the hearing, I cannot imagine the grief you and your family still have and the loss that you've suffered and I appreciate your courage in being outspoken about this. What message would you give to these politicians who defend sanctuary cities. What are they missing?
▶ 1:44:28Mrs. Miyares: What do they not understand about the impact that this has that you've lived? What would you want to say?
▶ 1:44:38Mr. Abraham: First I know they have no consideration for life. That's my take from my own experience. That's one. I wishing early in able to put themselves in someone else's position and look at what their policies are doing. This whole intention thing or the moral high ground they all think they have. When they're doing it for really an immoral purpose does not make it moral, does not make it right.
▶ 1:45:04Mr. Abraham: You're going to tell me that four or five years ago you had everyone in the world bum rush or border and that's ok? And now you're saying, we can't be extreme in what we're doing. Where were knee these voices four years ago and it didn't take legislation to stop what happened over those years. You want to get down to the nitty-gritty here.
▶ 1:45:30Mr. Abraham: Anybody who came in during the biden regime ought tock looked at. Katie's killer was not the worst of the worst. That moore girl in chicago -- he wasn't the worst of the worst. It shouldn't just be worst of the worst. I'm sorry they missed that.
▶ 1:45:48Chair Schmitt: Thank you. Senator welch?
▶ 1:45:53Sen. Welch: Thank you very much. Mr. abraham, I want to thank you for coming in and acknowledge your loss. Sheriff, there are some practical challenges here. There is a goal for public safety. We've had tragedies that have to be attended to. There have also been tragedy question saw in minneapolis. I'd like to get to a place where we have public safety for everyone.
▶ 1:46:17Sen. Welch: What level of training do your officers have to go through before you're going to give them a badge and send them out in the public with a well to protect the public.
▶ 1:46:32Sheriff Birkhead: Thank you for that question. The durham county sheriff's office, we run our own academies and in north carolina, the basic training is almost 700 hours of training. At the durham county sheriff's office, once they successfully complete that we run a most committee for another 10 to 12 weeks to fully ensure our deput weeks to fully ensure our dep deputies are fully trained and qualified.
▶ 1:47:03Sheriff Birkhead: Training that includes de-escalation, cultural sensitivity. C.I.t. Training and how to identify the resources that we need to get those individuals the help that they need and to make obviously clear and correct arrests and detention of others. It's a lot of hours of training.
▶ 1:47:26Sen. Welch: Thank you. My understanding that communication with other departments that maybe affected is incredibly important. What's been your experience with the communication with I.c.e.?
▶ 1:47:44Sheriff Birkhead: The communication with I.c.e., unfortunately is next to none. I've asked them to come see someone to no avail. And when they do come to my courthouse, the subjects was supposed to appear in court, he did not and left. So we assisteds them in looking for that individual.
▶ 1:48:09Sheriff Birkhead: That's the communication level I'd like to see every single time when someone in my jurisdiction needs to be apprehended.
▶ 1:48:22Sen.Le With Much: Up the. This question of intention that now needs to be imposed -- I want you to go over why you believe that's unconstitutional but even from a policy stand points is very detrimental to the well-being of our communities?
▶ 1:48:43Sen.Le With Much: >> the unconstitutionality part is that the spending clogs is not a power the president has but a pure that the supreme court has. So that's a legislative choice.
▶ 1:49:01Sen.Le With Much: President cannot change the meaning of legislation through an executive order and in so far as the supreme court has said during presidencies of both parties that spending conditions must be clearly, be clearly expressed in law, be voluntarily entered into entry the recipients. You can't clearly excess in law a condition that exists only in executive order.
▶ 1:49:24Sen.Le With Much: Senator, to your policy points, I think larger issue is that spending conditions, as the supreme court has said, are supposed to give the recipients a meaningful choice and part of that is to reflect that spending conditions cannot be a back door around the ban on comment rip.
▶ 1:49:42Sen.Le With Much: When folks talk about proposals, for instance, conditions to mew nice malbond tax exemption, I don't know how much of a choice that is for local jurisdictions with limited budgets. So, again, folks are going to have myriad policy views about what the right approach here.
▶ 1:50:09Sen.Le With Much: Is I think we just lost sights of what the constitution imposes as a constraints.
▶ 1:50:17Sen. Welch: So the bottom line, this legislative body could provide as much chutes voted on by the house and senate. >> as long as they were clearly expressed in law, reasonably related to the underlying money being spent, so long the state or recipient voluntarily accepted then and as long as they didn't violate the
▶ 1:50:47Sen. Welch: Constitution. Most of the courts to consider whether 1373 is constitutional have, yes, it is.
▶ 1:50:56Sen. Welch: Thank you. I have to run and vote. That's where senator schmitt is. I'll be right back and he'll be right back. I turn it over to senator kennedy. Thank you.
▶ 1:51:09Sen. Kennedy: Sheriff, you're sheriff of durham county? >> yes, sir.
▶ 1:51:21Sen. Kennedy: Beautiful, beautiful parrish. We call our counties parrishs. Beautiful county. Is it at least part of your job to protect the public?
▶ 1:51:35Sheriff Birkhead: Yes, it is.
▶ 1:51:39Sen. Kennedy: You believe that vetting people at the border is racist, do you not?
▶ 1:51:45Sheriff Birkhead: I'm sorry?
▶ 1:51:47Sen. Kennedy: You believe that vetting people at the border is racist, do you not?
▶ 1:51:55Sheriff Birkhead: No, I've never said that. I-believe that having secure borders is important and we have processes that allow individuals to come into the country the right way, absolutely.
▶ 1:52:11Sen. End: Do you believe that people should be able to violate federal immigrations lawses without consequences, don't up? >> no, sir. Anyone who violates states law needs to be held accountability and suffer the consequences.
▶ 1:52:31Sen. End: You don't believe in cooperating with ice?
▶ 1:52:37Sheriff Birkhead: I believe in cooperating and I certainly would cooperate with isles if they would cooperate with me.
▶ 1:52:45Sen. Kennedy: You were elected in 2008, sheriff, is that right?
▶ 1:52:50Sheriff Birkhead: That's correct.
▶ 1:52:53Sen. Kennedy: On april 18, 2018, you gave an interview with a media organization called indi week, do you remember that?
▶ 1:53:07Sheriff Birkhead: I'm familiar with the paper, yes.
▶ 1:53:11Sen. Kennedys: Here is what you said. I'm quoting you. I disagree with the incumbents sheriff's cooperation with ice. That's the guy you beat. I will make a clear and uncompromising commitment to not cooperate with I.c. Effort. As sheriff, I will not honor other ice detainers and we will not participate in I.c.e.
▶ 1:53:43Sen. Kennedys: Round-ups, end quote. Did I read that correctly?
▶ 1:53:48Sheriff Birkhead: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:53:50Sen. Kennedy: Ok. In april of last year, you -- you spoke to a group of I.c.e. Employees, do you remember that?
▶ 1:54:05Sheriff Birkhead: Not particularly, no.
▶ 1:54:08Sen. Kennedy: There was an article in a media entity called "the assembly." are you familiar with them? Do you remember giving them an interview?
▶ 1:54:22Sheriff Birkhead: I've heard of them. I gave self-interviews, I don't remember that particular one.
▶ 1:54:30Sen. Kennedy: Here's when you said in the interview, apparently only the record. These I.c.e. Employees that you spoke to, you were referencing them and you said "these ice officials asked me, so sheriff, if someone is about to be releaseeds from your jail and the detainer is about to expire, you will call us and let us know? What was my answer, you said.
▶ 1:55:00Sen. Kennedy: No. Because that's not what the law says. No. I will not call ice. End quote. Did I read that correctly?
▶ 1:55:11Sheriff Birkhead: Yes, you did. And senator, that was before the new law, now house bill 318 which requires me to make that second phone call. Prior to that it was not state law, which I follow and all my deputies follow. So now we do make that seconds phone call but ice agents are notified whenever someone is processed into my jail.
▶ 1:55:38Sen. Kennedy: Do you need some water? Because I think your pants are on fire. Do you remember a gentleman by the name of carlos, alberto mendoza martinez?
▶ 1:55:52Sheriff Birkhead: Not right off.
▶ 1:55:55Sen. Kennedy: You should. He was in our country illegally from mexico. He was in a street gang. Back in mexico he was convicted of manslaughter. And he was in your jail. And because in 2021 and 2024, Mr.
▶ 1:56:17Sen. Kennedy: Martinez was arrested for assaulting a woman in domestic violence and ice placed a detainer on this guy because he was in our country illegally and he was a criminal. And he was in your jail. And you wouldn't honor that detainer, would you?
▶ 1:56:41Sheriff Birkhead: I can't say I did not honor the detainer. I did honor the issues released by a judge.
▶ 1:56:55Sen. Kennedy: You really believe in public safety? >> yes, sir, I do.
▶ 1:57:01Sen. Kennedy: You would allow someone in our country illegally, convicted of manslaughter, convicted of domestic violence in your jail. Ice says please hold him. When his time is up, we want to get in criminal out of our country and you said no?
▶ 1:57:20Sheriff Birkhead: Ice was notified that they could come pick up the individual and for some reason they did not and the judge issued the conditions of release. I am a custodian, I do not determine who is released or head. I follow the court's order.
▶ 1:57:35Sen. Kennedy: Sheriff, I don't mean any disrespect but you ought to be ashamed of that. How can you possibly be for public safety if you hate our immigration laws so much that you would let a convicted murderer back on the street? Do you really hate immigration laws that much?
▶ 1:57:56Sheriff Birkhead: It's not a matter that I hate immigration law --
▶ 1:58:00Sen. Kennedy: You could have fooled me, sheriff.
▶ 1:58:05Sheriff Birkhead: Thank you, sir.
▶ 1:58:08Sen. Kennedy: Yes, thank you for your service. You're now in charge, I have to go vote. Holly is in charge, it's a dangerous moment. >> all kinds of things could happen. Senator durbin, believe.
▶ 1:58:22Sen. Durbin: Sheriff, tell me about your background since move declared an enemy of public safety? >> I grew new randolph county and started my law career there?
▶ 1:58:40Sen. Durbin: 1984 then I went to north carolina, duke university, servinged there for almost 17 1/2 years and 10 years after going to work at duke university I was hired and appointed as the chief and director of public safety for both the university and the medical center and from there, after seven years I served as the chief of police in hillsborough and now I'm I am the sheriff in durham county, elected in 2018.
▶ 1:59:11Sen. Durbin: >> elected by the people? What was your percentage? >> in past election I got 86.2% of the votes.
▶ 1:59:19Sen. Durbin: Whatever has been said at this committee meeting may not really reflect any knowledge of who you really are. I listened to the chiefs of police reactioning to ice leaping up to the killing of two people in minneapolis and many others.
▶ 1:59:39Sen. Durbin: To the points where a young woman in chicago driving to her church to donate some clothing was shot five times by the ice agents and survived it by some miracle and then no charges were filed against her. The chiefs of police in minneapolis and chicago report that because of ice activities, they've got two obvious problems.
▶ 2:00:02Sen. Durbin: One, responding to reports of ice activity and number two, the fact that the community, which is being we set by these ice agents is living in fear and doesn't reach out as they once did to law enforcement officials. As a former chief of police in at least several jurisdictions, does that explanation ring true to you?
▶ 2:00:28Sheriff Birkhead: It does, sir, unfortunately it does.
▶ 2:00:32Sen. Durbin: That would seen to be the mehmet we face. If we don't target specifically bad individuals is, we run the risk of scaring and frightening order people. As one said to me they're going after the gardeners, not the gangsters. Do you see that as a problem?
▶ 2:00:58Sheriff Birkhead: I do and as I said in my opening testimony, I agree with going after the individuals in this country, documented or urn documented if they commit vints crime. That's what we do in durham county. Anyone who violates the law in my jurisdiction will be identified, an hen ended and presented to the dave for hopefully successful prosecution.
▶ 2:01:24Sen. Durbin: Six out of seven of those who have been detained and some deported by the ice operation have no criminal record of any substance. Does that surprise you?
▶ 2:01:37Sheriff Birkhead: It disappoints me. Again, I think we need to be going after those individual who commit crimes across this country and not terrorizing individuals and certainly not those who are trying to make a living and not violating our laws.
▶ 2:01:58Sen. Durbin: This immigration bill supported and floundered in the U.S. house of representatives but it had a provision that every undocumented person in america who wants to work has to report themselves, where they live, go through the federal government and a background check and every employer has to use e-verified.
▶ 2:02:26Sen. Durbin: That seemed to me to be a pretty good system. Changing what we live with today but creating an opportunity for people to work legally in this country if they pass a criminal background check. Does that sound reasonable to you?
▶ 2:02:42Sheriff Birkhead: It does and I think that would be a step in the right direction.
▶ 2:02:48Sen. Durbin: I introduced the dream act over 20 years ago. I think its basic justice for people of this country to toddlers and infants because of the decision of their parents, have a chance to come part of that country, to get up there every day in the classroom with the rest of the children who are pledge the allegiance to the flag which doesn't allow them to have a changes.
▶ 2:03:18Sen. Durbin: It and doesn't allow american police shooting american citizens on the streets of minneapolis or chicago. I think we can handle this in the right way. Thank you for your testimony.
▶ 2:03:32Chair Schmitt: Thank you, sir. Senator devicehouse? Sen. whitehouse. : thank you. I come from north carolina and as said sanctuary cities is not a legal term. Let me say a word about the law. In the first circuit where my capital city, provides, for instance, is located.
▶ 2:04:03Chair Schmitt: It is not lawful for a local law enforcement agency to detain someone for a minute, for an hour, for a day. Just on an ice detainer. If somebody is arrested the head by the boulevards police and the cause for which they're being held evaporates, the existence of an ice detainer does not justify continuing to hold them.
▶ 2:04:30Chair Schmitt: In fact, continuing hold them would justify a liability suit. Against the department and the officer for that. All of the to which is fun and games for ice because ice has no
▶ 2:05:00Chair Schmitt: Responsibility. But everybody else can you sued. So to me it's a little bit rich when people call my capital city a sanctuary city and command that our police officers, our real law enforcement officers put themselves unless harm's way for civil liability when our courts have said that's actually against the law. You can be liable for that.
▶ 2:05:29Chair Schmitt: The second thing that I'd note is that cooperation matters and as the sheriff has pointed out. Cooperation is a two-way street. But even if cooperation is not a two-way street, there is something called deconfliction. Sheriff, does that word mean anything to you? >> yes, it does. >> it's pretty standard law enforcement practice to deconflict. That's law on that.
▶ 2:05:57Chair Schmitt: It's an accreditation qualification. There are courses taught on deconflict, are there not? >> yes, sir, there are.
▶ 2:06:06Sen. Whitehouse: And what I've seen is that ice refused to deconflict. S.e.c. Noem didn't even know what decon next was. That's how unparents to these agents the basic principles of law enforcement are. And then when they come in and do harm at local law enforcement. Sheriffs, attorney generals, local police departments have to investigate, let's say, a killing, a homicide.
▶ 2:06:37Sen. Whitehouse: They make the decision that they're not even going to cooperate. They're not going to turn over any evidence. They're going to hide the evidence that they have from local law enforcement. That's exactly qualification done in minneapolis so, again, it's a little bit rich to come in and say, well, the providence police should do more to cooperate with these so-called law enforcement officials, these savers, when they refuse to deconflict and if they shoot
▶ 2:07:07Sen. Whitehouse: Someone and there's a local headlines investigation, their hide the evidence rather than cooperate with local law enforcement. So the last thing I'll just point out. I just want to tell this story to give everybody an idea of what in really looks like in realtime. Luckily nobody was hurt in this episode in rhode island.
▶ 2:07:30Sen. Whitehouse: Ice was operating in our superior court hours contrary to a written agreement with the court that they would knot operate in that courthouse. Er in taking pictures of people in the courthouse contrary to a court rule that for very good and proper reasons forbids taking pictures of people in the courthouse.
▶ 2:07:53Sen. Whitehouse: They were pursue they were pursuing somebody who can was over 30 years old and for some reason they'd got spited their heads that a high school intern working far state judge was that 30--year-old-plus person so they started pursuing the intern who went to the judge and said I'd like to go back to school. My time's up, can you give me a ride back to school? So a sitting state judge walked his intern out to his car.
▶ 2:08:25Sen. Whitehouse: The ice agents work not have been operating there in the first place followed him out. Here's something that law enforcement does. It's called clues. The man's car was in a parking spot redeserved for judges so even if they hadn't bothered to figure out who the judges were in the courthouse they could have deduced with just a little have deduced with just a li little bit of brain activity that perhaps the man getting into the car in the judge's only
▶ 2:08:56Sen. Whitehouse: Parking spot was a judge. Instead they insisted on trying to seize the high school student who they thought was over 30 years old, evidently and they told the judge get out of the f-ing car. Another they're didn't restrain themselves to n. I'm going toffish your fing windows in your car and drag you out if you don't.
▶ 2:09:23Sen. Whitehouse: This to a judge who they just followed out of the courthouse and for some reason they didn't know he was a judge. It doesn't take a lot of brain power to deduce that this was a car from where the car was parked. That's how they operate.
▶ 2:09:41Sen. Whitehouse: Hyped anyone in their right mind in law enforcement want to cooperate with that kind of behavior when local law enforcement could be held civilly liable for going along with that kind of nonsense and only federal isles agents can hide from any civil consequences.
▶ 2:10:01Sen. Whitehouse: That's the predicament that we have and I would urge my colleagues to recognize those facts ask that law when they start throwing around terms like sanctuary cities about my capital city.
▶ 2:10:16Chair Schmitt: Thank you, senator. Mr. miyares, I want to ask you, let's be clear about what we're talking about when we talk about sanksry jurisdictions, not holding anyone after. It's about before they're being released, right, that local officials would notify when a rapist or a murderer or a violent criminal is being released from prison. >> correct.
▶ 2:10:45Chair Schmitt: Cow talk about that process in your experience works? And then also pointing out make in answering the question, why that is an infinitely safer process for people than ice agents having to go into communication to find the same person.
▶ 2:11:06Mr. Miyares: No question. Fairfax county. You have a local board of supervisors and a half a trust policy that explicitly predicts local officials' cooperation with federal immigration authorities and then you after local sheriff that does not honor ice detainers and steve descano takes immigration into accounted in his charging decisions.
▶ 2:11:35Mr. Miyares: I've seen this firsthand because several years ago I actually talked to ice agents and asked them to walk through the process and I saw this with my own two eyes. They decided, you should see what we have to dole with. All they have to do is make a phone call on the fern's release, we meet them in the parking lot. I asked how does this work?
▶ 2:12:02Mr. Miyares: Mcis noticed they're going to be released and get total when, they meet them in the parking lot. Infinitely safer than releasing them in the community. Ice had to put together three different eight-man teams what repairs people who had previously been arrested.
▶ 2:12:21Mr. Miyares: One was on a drug charge, a weapons charge and one was a gang member and a left judge in fairfax county gave in person bond even though they were here illegally. They had to do an enormous amounted of manpower to determine where they lived, determine the best time to confront them.
▶ 2:12:49Mr. Miyares: A man was leaving his townhouse late and a school bus showed up with young children right there about to board the school bus. He identified who the federal authorities were and he started running through neighborhoods and through the states. They could not get cooperation from local law enforcement. That was infinitely more dangerous to the community from what I saw.
▶ 2:13:19Chair Schmitt: Thank you, senator padilla?
▶ 2:13:23Sen. Padilla: Thank you, plaintiff. I want to thank all the witnesses for coming here today and more participating. Particularly, Mr. abraham, for your loss. Inexcusable regardless of who the perpetrator was. I can't imagine how heartbreaking that was. I just want to know that we feel for you and it takes a lot for you to be here to share your story.
▶ 2:13:57Sen. Padilla: Plaintiff, I know we've heard a lot, for years about the dangerous of sinkry cities. My colleagues sometimes choose to describing a city or a state as some sort of lawless wasteland where anything goes and that's either a misunderstanding, intentional or otherwise of what sanctuary
▶ 2:14:28Sen. Padilla: Policies are and I think the american people deserve to know what sanctuary policies are and what they are not. Sank rhode island policies do not mean that there are no laws. It's not mad max. In fact, as a national immigration law center and others have found, there's a notable decrease in crime overall in cities and state that prioritize welcoming immigrant communities rather than targeting them.
▶ 2:15:00Sen. Padilla: These jurisdictions also report higher median household income, less levels of poverty and lower rates of unemployment. By and large, these are positive indicators. Mr.
▶ 2:15:19Sen. Padilla: Chair I asked that I'm able to enter the record sty studies from the university of texas, university of arizona and the national immigration law center. Thank you very much. Sanctuary policies, again, to be clear. Also does not mean that the federal government opportunity doesn't have the ability to enter into that state or those cities.
▶ 2:15:46Sen. Padilla: All sanctuary policies do is affirm that state scholar local authorities cannot be co-opted into performing immigration enforcement. As professor vladeck explained in his testimony. That's because immigration is a federal responsibility and enforcing it is the job of the federal government. I know some state and local jurisdictions choose to cooperate but chant be forced into it.
▶ 2:16:17Sen. Padilla: That's been upled by the courts. State and local law enforcement can choose to focus their time, their energy and finite resources on providing for the needs, the safety and well-being of the people living in their communities as they best determine. So let me say that again.
▶ 2:16:38Sen. Padilla: Sanksry policies do not provide ice -- sank rhode island policies do not prevent ice from going into this state or city to arrest an illegal alien arrested for vints crime. What we're not discussing today is this administration's failure to live up to their own claim that they're arresting simply the worst of the worst.
▶ 2:17:06Sen. Padilla: Their own data tells us that the vast majority of the people that have been picked up by ice and c.v.p. Do not have a violent criminal history so I wish we were talking about that failure instead of trying to disfant this administration's failures by going down a sanctuary policy misperception rabbit hole.
▶ 2:17:31Sen. Padilla: My colleagues who disagree with these policies, that's the nature of our work in nature of our work in a democracy but the disagreement doesn't make sanctuary policies unlawful and it clearly doesn't make our communities less safe based on the data that researchers have provided. So I'd like to call out what this detective really is about. It's not about public safety because the evidence shows communities can be safer.
▶ 2:17:59Sen. Padilla: It's not about the law because courts have upheld sanctuary policies time and again all the way to the supreme court. It's clearly about politics. And scapegoating. At a time when americans are asking us to help make their lives better, and more affordable, by the way, we should be focused on real solutions in that direction. Not recycling the same tired, misleading talking points.
▶ 2:18:26Sen. Padilla: Sanctuary policies are constitutional, practical and allow local and state officials to do what they do best. Focus their time, energy and finite resources on providing for the safety of their communities as they best see fit. So let's give the american people honesty and ends the fear mongering of these false narrative. Thank you michigan.
▶ 2:18:50Chair Schmitt: Senator cruz.
▶ 2:18:52Sen. Cruz: Thank you. Last week, 1-year-old college freshman cher dan gordon went to the shores of lake michigan to look at the sky, to take a glimpse of the northern lights. Instead she was met with death. As she walked with friends along michigan's lake front.
▶ 2:19:21Sen. Cruz: Sheridan was shot by a masked coward dressed in back. Her killer? An illegal alien who entered the united states and remained here to commit murder. Shield pi chicago's failed sanctuary cities.
▶ 2:19:45Sen. Cruz: Is it true that sheridan's killer had been picked up twice by law enforce" but released four times? >> that is my understanding.
▶ 2:19:57Sen. Cruise: Also picked up by joe biden's ford better a patrol in 2023 but released to wander in the united states. >> yes.
▶ 2:20:07Sen. Cruz: Also true that macy's officials picked him up but then released him on the ridiculous assumption that he would report to his court date. >> yes. According to records.
▶ 2:20:21Sen. Cruz: Sheridan's killer has been hiding in chicago. A city that gleeny has become a sanctuary for criminals and now doled blooded murderers for nearly three years.
▶ 2:20:53Sen. Cruz: Do sank rhode island cities make americans safer orem boaden criminal they only protect criminal aliens. They did not make our cities safe.
▶ 2:20:59Sen. Cruz: It is a fundamental duty of government to protect its citizens, yet this tragic scenario is for itself in sanctuary jurisdictions again and again and again. Thank you, Mr. abraham, for being here today. I want to extend my deepest condolences. >> appreciate it.
▶ 2:21:29Sen. Cruz: I also appreciate ranking member walsh and senator padilla. What I don't understand is why my senator of illinois, Mr. durbin, I have not heard a peep from him.
▶ 2:21:40Chair Cruz: I think it is a fair question to ask. >> I'm kind of happy that he's calling it quits.
▶ 2:21:50Chair Cruz: To the extent that you feel comfortable sharing, can you tell us about katie? >> katie was great. She had this amazing personality. She was sharp as a tack. Her weight was unbelievable. She was going to be, wherever she was going to go was going to be amazing. She had a great sense of reading the room, how to behave herself in those situations, ever since she was little. She was a terrific athlete.
▶ 2:22:18Chair Cruz: Had so many different friend groups, always was, you know, just an amazing support for our friends and family. To me, this world and illinois is a worse place now without her.
▶ 2:22:31Chair Cruz: I'm the father of two teenage daughters. >> don't even think about that. Don't even do it.
▶ 2:22:38Chair Cruz: I can only imagine. >> yeah. Don't even.
▶ 2:22:54Sen. Cruz T: Pain and grief. She was 20 years old when she was killed by an illegal alien drunk driver. >> that is right.
▶ 2:23:00Sen. Cruz: You know, just this week, there is a clip of democrat senator chris murphy on tv, being interviewed, and he says that we care about, and he is speaking about senate democrats, are illegal aliens.
▶ 2:23:25Sen. Cruz: You know, there is an old line that a gasp is when a politician tells the truth. Mr. abraham, how does it feel listening to an elected representative say quite proudly that the people he cares most about, and he was speaking for every democrat senator, he was saying the people we care most about are illegal immigrants. How does that feel?
▶ 2:23:49Mr. Abraham: Look, that is an indictment on him, I've got to say. I'm not sure where citizens fit in all of this, but at least my experience over the last 14 months is we don't sit at the top. Our stories are inconvenient, and therefore they are erased and ignored, so does it surprise me? No. It does not surprise me at all.
▶ 2:24:20Mr. Abraham: In today's world, that does not surprise me at all. And really just an unserious thing to say, and I'm not sure why anyone would pay attention to that.
▶ 2:24:28Sen. Cruz: The only thing that I would respectfully disagree with is the word unserious, because I actually think he was deadly serious. I think he was telling the truth. And every democrat has the chance to disputed at the state of the union address, when president trump turned to the democrats and said, stand if you agree with this, that it is our duty to protect american citizens and not illegal aliens.
▶ 2:24:55Sen. Cruz: And every democrat, every democrat in the senate, every democrat in the house, sat stonefaced, and they told the american people, we agree with chris murphy. The people we love the most are the illegal immigrants.
▶ 2:25:12Sen. Cruz: You know, the paper was shared, the school paper, this week, apologized to her murderer, because the first story correctly described him as an illegal immigrant. What the hell is wrong with these people? I'm sorry, Mr. abraham.
▶ 2:25:38Mr. Abraham: Yeah. It's -- they talk about compassion. I have not seen any yet. It's disgusting come in a way. We should not be left alone on an island because we do not fit a certain ideology. I'm so sorry that certain folks only live by the ideology come of the north star, and that's a bad life to live. I think they are missing out on so many other things get meanwhile, my daughter is taken away. I will never see her again.
▶ 2:26:08Mr. Abraham: I have not seen her, her laugh, her talk, grabbed her, hold her, 14 months now. Does anyone consider that? Sheriff? I cannot believe what I'm hearing today. But, you know, I'm not some politician or bureaucrat. I'm a dad with a head down, worked his tail off for his kid, thinking foolishly she was safe in some city.
▶ 2:26:36Mr. Abraham: I know illinois is corrupt, they had guardrails come of the old school guys did get in that I hear some of the stuff here. I'm sorry. It's also. -- awful.
▶ 2:26:50Sen. Cruz: Yeah. You have nothing to apologize to commend and what happened to your daughter should have never happened.
▶ 2:26:57Mr. Abraham: It was preventable. That did not have to happen. He was identified, he was pulled over by local police come bang up job on that one, let go to do this. And now we are ok did you know, governor pritzker will say, you got justice. We found him. Crime happens. You are good to go. We got him, and he is incarcerated now. My point there is --
▶ 2:27:26Sen. Cruz: Your daughter should still be alive.
▶ 2:27:32Mr. Abraham: My daughter is in a grave. She will never see the light of day. And now he will spend decades in jail. Bang up job, illinois, on that one.
▶ 2:27:43Sen. Cruz: They are the people democrats care about the most.
▶ 2:27:47Mr. Abraham: It's so simple that is beyond my comprehension, to sit here and deflect, deceive, just call it what it is. I'm sorry.
▶ 2:27:55Sen. Cruz: Thank you, sir. >> senator hirono.
▶ 2:28:01Sen. Hirono: Last year, the trump administration try to commission federal grants. Other cities and counties support federal immigration enforcement. This is a question for professor vladeck. To question fema emergency preparedness funding, they tried conditioning department of transportation infrastructure funding. This regime has a propensity to tie various types of funding to various etiological positions that this regime takes.
▶ 2:28:32Sen. Hirono: And, by the way, the regime keeps losing in court. Professor vladeck, why does tom keep losing in court in trying to withhold funding for these other important programs?
▶ 2:28:46Prof. Vladeck: Well, senator, I think as the supreme court has that for decades, there are four different conditions that they have to satisfied to be constitutional, and the conditions that the trump and administration has imposed has violated, senator, there is between two and three of them, depending on the condition we are talking about.
▶ 2:29:06Sen. Hirono: In one conditioning violet.
▶ 2:29:08Prof. Vladeck: So, first of all, the conditions have to be clearly expressed in law, an executive that interpret the statute to allow the president to impose a condition is not clearly expressing that condition in law. The condition has to be substantially related to the purpose of the funds, tie in all of the transportation funds in, whether it is not have d.e.I. Practices, not related to transportation funding.
▶ 2:29:33Prof. Vladeck: The third category is some of the grant cancellations of the sun above the senate cancellations rcv -- seemingly first amendment retaliations.
▶ 2:29:41Sen. Hirono: Executive orders, which is how this president wants to run the country, apparently, in addition to taking us into an undeclared and therefore illegal war, is by executive order, that it is not law. That's why there are over 500 lawsuits to prevent this regime from its continuing lawlessness.
▶ 2:30:08Sen. Hirono: So, let me come in fact, the court requires things, how about evidence? Thank goodness the courts still require factual evidence in order to go along with this regime. Again, for professor vladeck, local law enforcement already had a lot of important missions. They respond to mental health challenges, missing children, wildlife encounters.
▶ 2:30:39Sen. Hirono: They also drive traffic, provide first aid, and conduct search and rescue. They help the public during natural and man-made disasters. And right now, hawaii law enforcement officers are helping our north shore communities dig out from a massive flood. Of course that is all in addition to preventing and responding to crime and ensuring public safety.
▶ 2:31:07Sen. Hirono: Professor vladeck, local law enforcement, as I mentioned, have said a lot of things. And this may require the trust of a community. So, in your view, are they also required by either federal law or the constitution to enforce federal immigration law, in order to everything that they already do on behalf of the community?
▶ 2:31:31Prof. Vladeck: They are not required to, senator, and I'm not sure they can compelled to. The relative -- relevant point is different counties love different priorities commandos will vary based upon who the populace is, based upon what happens in that locality. New york city and a small town in montana are not going to have the same law enforcement priorities.
▶ 2:31:53Prof. Vladeck: So part of what this constitutional structure recognizes, for better or for worse, and I'm not here to suggest that is what I which have chosen if it were up to me, is that local governments are better positioned to make those calls. They are more accountable to their populace is, and that the federal government does not have the power to tell local governments what their policy choices ought to be.
▶ 2:32:13Sen. Hirono: Thank you. The president's of session is not making americans safer. Look at what I.c.e. Is doing in minnesota, in chicago, and other places. Terrorizing immunities and further eroding the relationships between immigrant communities and law enforcement.
▶ 2:32:38Sen. Hirono: Sheriff birkhead, as long as you are talking about how important that is to enable local law enforcement to provide public safety.
▶ 2:32:45Sheriff Birkhead: Madam senator, it is critically important that we secure and maintain that level of trust with our public. It is impossible for my deputies to do the job we do day in and day out, as you already articulated. We do a number of things, and we provide a number of services to the community, but when that trust is broken, then we are unable to provide services, we are unable to solve problems as effectively as we would like to.
▶ 2:33:18Sheriff Birkhead: And, unfortunately, what we see and play out over the past few months, with I.c.e. And cbp coming into our communities, it has eroded that trust and has dismantled our ability to be successful in combating crime.
▶ 2:33:31Sen. Hirono: By the way, that trust takes time to build.
▶ 2:33:36Sheriff Birkhead: Yes, it does.
▶ 2:33:37Sen. Hirono: Mr. chairman I asked unanimous consent to enter into the record an article entitled how interior immigration enforcement affects trust in law enforcement, which finds a significant decrease in trust of local public and their police, when they support federal immigration enforcement. Thank you.
▶ 2:33:59Chair Schmitt: Thank you. That will conclude the hearing. Written questions for the record can be submitted until wednesday, april 1 at 5:00 p.m. We ask the witness is to submit responses within two weeks, so by wednesday, april 15, at 5:00 p.m. I would like to thank all of the witnesses for being here today. The -- oh, the ranking member hassan of what do you have?
▶ 2:34:31Sen. Welch: A law enforcement immigration task force I would like to submit for the record.
▶ 2:34:34Chair Schmitt: Without objection. We are adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]