▶ 0:27:29Chair Mccormick: This subcommittee will come to order. Thank you for being here. This is our first energy subcommittee hearing of this congress and I would like to thank senator gallego for helping put this together. He will be here momentarily. For the other members who are here today who have introduced legislation, the focus of this hearing is on pending legislation. We have two expert witnesses.
▶ 0:27:57Chair Mccormick: I think you both for being here and I look forward to being able to ask you some questions. I will say in advance, in the event that there are any outbursts or disruptions, I'm going to stop the hearing and ask for those folks to be removed. That will allow us to continue through the business of the day. Today's hearing is focused on improving our nations grid.
▶ 0:28:27Chair Mccormick: To ensure that the energy we are producing and delivering, electricity to end-users, in the most efficient and affordable way possible. Today we are in the midst of something extraordinary with this ai revolution and the re-industrialization that goes hand-in-hand with it. These two forces are predicted to drive a 25% increase in demand for energy by 2030, antithetical to the kind of affordability for americans that we want.
▶ 0:28:57Chair Mccormick: That's why I view ai and energy as two sides of the same coin. In this global ai race, we have two choices. Either we win and lead or we follow. In order to help win the ai race against china, we need energy to power this new technology, to power the necessary compute. Today's speed to power is the name of the game.
▶ 0:29:25Chair Mccormick: In pennsylvania the energy we are producing is critical to protecting and advancing U.S. economic and national security. Pennsylvania is the nation's second-largest largest producer of natural gas, the third largest electricity producer in the country and second largest producer of nuclear power. Pennsylvania is providing the power for new manufacturing and electricity but also for well-paying family sustaining jobs, which is critical.
▶ 0:29:54Chair Mccormick: Pennsylvania is also at the cutting edge of a radical transformation. We saw this last year at the energy and innovation summit I hosted in pittsburgh, where $92 billion of investment in new data centers and energy and power was pledged by the ceos around the table. Many public companies making these commitments. We know that we need to get these electrons from the generation source to the end users.
▶ 0:30:25Chair Mccormick: We know that pennsylvanians should not see higher power bills because of data centers or other large load projects. The bills we examine today will address speed to power challenges including unlocking more capacity from existing grids and avoiding long lead times. I'm proud to have offered -- authored two of the bills we will consider. The first is the liquid cooling for ai act.
▶ 0:30:51Chair Mccormick: This is designed to ensure ai infrastructure is the most efficient, resilient, secure and advanced in the world. There is senator gallego. Liquid cooling technology -- I've got some great words of gratitude for you. -- can better accommodate advanced chips and ai data centers while better managing energy consumption and strain on utilities.
▶ 0:31:15Chair Mccormick: The second bill is the existing wires for infrastructure for reliability and expansion. It is something I introduced with senator welch who I think is here. There he is. This bill will cut permitting delays and accelerate deployment of innovative grid technology. Both of these bills are meaningful steps forward in reducing permitting delays and allowing us to win the ai race.
▶ 0:31:45Chair Mccormick: But there is still work to be done. With that I look forward to hearing from our witnesses but first I would like to turn to ranking member gallego for his opening statement.
▶ 0:31:54Ranking Member Gallego: Thank you chair mccormick. We are here to consider a handful of bills dealing with energy systems, a system that is seeing a lot of pressure. Energy demand is rising faster than we've seen in decades and it is not slowing down anytime soon. The U.S. is predicted to see a 25% increase in demand by 2030.
▶ 0:32:19Ranking Member Gallego: In some ways, these are good problems to have as they are signs of a growing economy but there are also challenges we have to get right. At the same time we have seen increased demand, energy has become more unaffordable. Energy prices rose twice as fast as overall inflation last year. One in three americans avoid paying for food or medical bills to pay for energy bills. As demand continues to rise, so will cost.
▶ 0:32:49Ranking Member Gallego: We want to meet this demand without making cost even worse. We need permitting reforms to increase energy production and generation. As generation increases, our transmission systems will need to be ready to move energy from where it is generated to where it will be used. It does not matter how many electrons you produce, if you can't get them where they need to go, it makes no difference. Right now our grid system is not going to meet those demands. 70% of U.S.
▶ 0:33:18Ranking Member Gallego: Lines are over 25 years old, more than halfway through their operational lifespans, and 55% of transformers are older than that. Estimates are that the national transmission system will need to double in size by 2050 to maintain reliability and keep costs low. One study found that in 2023, insufficient capacity in the grid cost customers $11.5 billion. The grid we have is not the grid we need.
▶ 0:33:47Ranking Member Gallego: It's not just cost, it is also a public safety issue. An outdated grade makes us vulnerable to widespread blackouts. In arizona a black count in 115 degree weather is a matter of life and death -- a blackout in 115 degree weather is a matter of life and death. A reliable grid is impossible unless we get energy where it needs to go quickly and when it's needed.
▶ 0:34:17Ranking Member Gallego: All this is to say there is a strong consensus among the challenges we face. We are here today to work on solutions that are feasible, productive and effective in growing our grid and meeting demand. There are some strong bills in today's markup to do that. One that I am proud to support is the liquid cooling for ai act which would make sure we have cooling systems capable of supporting chips manufacturing which is a big deal in arizona.
▶ 0:34:44Ranking Member Gallego: Another promising bill is the advantage -- advancing -- which will incentivize developers to bring new grid efficiency tools to increase transmission capacity. The goal today is to figure out how to move forward and to make sure the best ideas will be put forward and pressure tested. Congress is ready to do -- ready to act.
▶ 0:35:11Chair Mccormick: I see senator welch is here, which is great, to speak on one of his bills so I will turn to the senator from rhode island.
▶ 0:35:21Sen. Welch: I will violate protocol by saying something nice about the chairman. It is terrific to work with you on this. It is not just the term bipartisan, but the reality is you are getting significantly higher rates in pennsylvania. We are getting higher rates in vermont. A lot of the challenges we face affect the people we represent. It is not a red state-blue state bill.
▶ 0:35:51Sen. Welch: Hi electricity bills are tough on whoever we represent. Senator gallego was talking about needing to modernize our transmission system but the bill that senator mccormick and I are promoting says let's take the system we have and enhance it through technology. There's a lot more electrons that can flow through what we have. That is such a less expensive way to increase the access to the electrons we need.
▶ 0:36:25Sen. Welch: We use the term common sense but I so appreciate you being willing to work with me, and we share the view that working together can make more progress. It is because the identical challenges that those ratepayers in pennsylvania face are identical to the challenges for ratepayers in vermont. Take what you have at get more out of it. Use it more efficiently.
▶ 0:36:54Sen. Welch: I appreciate this committee partnering with you, senator mccormick and thank you for the opportunity to be here and promote this legislation.
▶ 0:37:01Chair Mccormick: Thank you senator welch. I share that sentiment. I would also like to thank two witnesses that we have here today. First we have david morenoff, deputy general counsel of the federal energy regulation commission group. The second is Mr. kal ayoub, director of the office of electric reliability.
▶ 0:37:26Chair Mccormick: I would like to ask the witness is to come forward and we will ask you to each have five minutes and then turn to questions. For my fellow senators who are here, I am happy to cede my time to each of you after senator gallego, and you can ask your questions and I will wrap up at the end. Ok. All right Mr.
▶ 0:37:55Chair Mccormick: Morenoff, the floor is yours to give your opening statement.
▶ 0:38:00Mr. Morenoff: Chairman mccormick, ranking member gallego and members of the subcommittee. My name is david morenoff. I appreciate the opportunity to sit before you today as a member of the staff of the federal energy regulatory commission. I currently serve as the commission's deputy general counsel. The views I express today are my own and not necessarily those of the commission or any individual commissioner.
▶ 0:38:29Mr. Morenoff: The commission jurisdiction covers a range of energy response abilities -- response abilities -- responsibilities. Transmission of electricity as well as the transportation of natural gas by pipeline and interstate commerce. The commission also is responsible for overseeing the reliability of the nation's power system.
▶ 0:38:52Mr. Morenoff: The commission is also responsible for citing meeting -- needed energy infrastructure including natural gas pipelines, hydroelectric facilities. I for filling these responsibilities, we ensure our -- by fulfilling these response abilities, we ensure our country has reliable energy. The commissioner has recognized that our country is at a historic crossroads.
▶ 0:39:21Mr. Morenoff: Keeping the lights on and the pipelines flowing at reasonable rates. Doing everything within our power to facilitate the connection of large loads in data centers while ensuring the resulting costs are fairly allocated. Maximizing the commission's ability to facilitate infrastructure development, critical to our reliability, safety and our economy.
▶ 0:39:47Mr. Morenoff: These response abilities -- responsibilities aligned with the themes of the proposed bills of today's hearing. Spurred in part by the demands of data centers, our country is experiencing rapid growth unlike anything we've seen in decades. To meet that growth it is important to -- expeditiously.
▶ 0:40:18Mr. Morenoff: The commission has approved proposals for grid operators for several regions of the country, to expedite interconnection for generation resources and are more likely to be constructed to meet those needs. The commission has also acted on filings made by all jurisdictional transmission providers in compliance with the commission's order 2023, a final rule on the interconnection of new generation systems.
▶ 0:40:47Mr. Morenoff: Addressing a related issue, the commission directed the nation's largest grid operator to establish transparent rules to serve data centers and other large loads colocated with generation. Those rules will safeguard reliability and protect consumers, impacting over 67 million americans.
▶ 0:41:05Mr. Morenoff: The commission has also approved innovative proposals from other grid operators to expedite interconnection of large load additions and associated generation in a manner that accommodates unique operational demands of large loads while also facilitating reliable connections. The bills that are the subject of today's hearing serve similar themes of reliability and affordability.
▶ 0:41:32Mr. Morenoff: Some of the bills identified reliability challenges, such as the frustratingly slow processes to connect new sources. Other bills underscore the importance of making full use of existing electric -- electric infrastructure to support affordability including through appropriate application of grid enhancing technologies.
▶ 0:42:00Mr. Morenoff: The congress determines these important issues and authorize further tools for the commission's use. The commission stands ready to take on these additional responsibilities. Thank you for the invitation to testify today happy to answer any questions you may have.
▶ 0:42:18Chair Mccormick: Thank you. Mr. ayoub.
▶ 0:42:21Mr. Ayoub: Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am the director of the office of electric reliability at the federal energy regulatory commission. The office is responsible for leading the commission's responsibilities in protecting, improving and overseeing the reliability of -- establishing the energy policy act of 2005.
▶ 0:42:50Mr. Ayoub: I am here as a commission staff witness and my views do not necessarily represent those of the commission or any individual commissioner. My testimony summarizes the commission oversight of reliability and recent commission activity implementing that authority. The energy policy act of 2005 added section 215 to the federal power act giving the commission authority over mandatory enforcement of reliability standards for the power system which includes the interconnected U.S.
▶ 0:43:19Mr. Ayoub: Grid but excludes alaska, hawaii and local distribution systems. Under this provision, the commission certified is the electric viability -- for commission review, approval and subsequent enforcement by regional entities, subject to commission oversight. The commission may approve based on statutory criteria but cannot write or modify the standard itself.
▶ 0:43:49Mr. Ayoub: Instead they may direct us to provide new standards to address, identify reliability gaps. Reliability today is shaped by factors that test resilience. Those include rapid growth, from large loads such as data centers and more diverse resources that require accurate modeling and consistent performance expectations and increasing frequency of extreme weather events.
▶ 0:44:16Mr. Ayoub: On top of this is the ever prevalent -- present and constantly evolving plant -- threat landscape related to cyber security. Protecting the grid for malicious actors whether through cyber intrusions, physical attacks on critical facilities or exploitations in supply chains remains fundamental to maintaining reliability. The commission has taken extensive actions over the years to ensure reliability.
▶ 0:44:43Mr. Ayoub: Since adopting the critical infrastructure standards in 2008, it has expanded protections against cyber and physical threats including supply chain risks, network monitoring and incident response. The commission approved a new standards directed improvements to cold-weather preparedness and required vulnerability assessments. It also directed n -- which the commission has since approved. Currently the commission is closely following the emergency of large language models.
▶ 0:45:13Mr. Ayoub: This includes ongoing nerc to identify it large loads and develop new reliability standards that address their associated reliability risks. Once completed, nerc will submit the standards for review and approval. The commission's core mission as the german emphasizes is to ensure reliable secure and affordable energy.
▶ 0:45:40Mr. Ayoub: The focus on regulatory certainty is essential for timely infrastructure investment and enabling large loads to connect to the grid predictably while retaining reliability is reflected in the work that is highlighted today. The legislation under consideration reflects these challenges, highlighting the need for clear planning processes, accurate risk assessment, timely development and coordination.
▶ 0:46:05Mr. Ayoub: The commission remains committed to working with congress, nerc and industry to uphold reliable resilient and secure systems. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:46:15Chair Mccormick: Thank you. Senator gallego, you may go ahead with your questions.
▶ 0:46:21Ranking Member Gallego: I will defer to senator king, if he wants to ask questions and head out.
▶ 0:46:30Sen. King: Thank you very much. Perhaps ai could do a better job of scheduling the senate. I have three hearings at the very same time this afternoon, so I appreciate that. I just wanted to mention two bills that I think are particularly important.
▶ 0:46:51Sen. King: One is the advancement of gats act which was basically a mandate to provide an incentive to developers to counteract the current incentive which is to build things the old way. Mr. ayoub, my study indicates that it can have a significant, up to 30% increase in the throughput of the grid at a much lower cost. Is that your judgment?
▶ 0:47:23Mr. Ayoub: Grid enhancing technologies provide tremendous value to the grid such as re-conductorig. Any more electrons we can get on the grid is a positive especially in terms of building unit transmission lines.
▶ 0:47:48Sen. King: One of the advantages is time. This would be something that could be done immediately. Secondly it is much cheaper and one of the problems that we face is this gigantic expansion of the grade is going to be expensive and we are now seeing transmission and distribution costs that exceed the cost of generating electricity. That is why I think this is an important initiative. It provides an incentive to the developer of the transmission.
▶ 0:48:20Sen. King: The second bill is one I am proud to cosponsor with the chairman, the rewiring act which is about conductors. This is a conventional conductor. This is a carbon-based conductor. It is smaller, lighter, it will carry twice the electricity.
▶ 0:48:40Sen. King: This is another way of significantly increasing the grid capacity without new poles or rights of way huge expense and the rewire act would basically say you don't have to go through a long permitting process because there is no environmental impact except for the good, but it is also a way of considerably cutting the cost of the expansion that we all agree is necessary.
▶ 0:49:11Sen. King: You mentioned re-conductoring. Expand on that. You are welcome to say that I'm just right. [laughter]
▶ 0:49:20Mr. Ayoub: Thank you for the question. I would agree that grid enhancing technologies which include re-conductoring provide tremendous value because they are improvements to existing lines. Imagine having a tooling road and you are getting congestion over the years and you ask yourself, rather than building a new highway, can we expand that tooling road temporarily until we address the other issue? It is all of the above.
▶ 0:49:51Mr. Ayoub: I will always stand getting -- I will always say getting more electrons is a positive for us.
▶ 0:49:58Sen. King: We do have to be thinking about cost because electric rates are already going up and are too high in many countries -- if we don't watch the expansion of the grid, it is going to substantially increase.
▶ 0:50:16Sen. King: I remember when tmd was 30% of the bill and now it is approaching 60% and it's going to be even more of that unless we adopt a technology that will enable us to do this expansion without burdening the ratepayers. That is your mention -- that is your mission at ferc is it not?
▶ 0:50:38Mr. Morenoff: I agree. The mission is to ensure just and reasonable rates for consumers and that goes to the issues we -- you have raised.
▶ 0:50:52Sen. King: I appreciate you allowing me to go forward.
▶ 0:51:00Sen. Padilla: Thank you Mr. chair. I would like to voice my support for two bills in this hearing. Senator king's advancing gets act, and of course your rewire act. These bills to crucial steps toward modernizing our grid, which is needed and in many places it is overdue. With the advanced technologies we talked so frequently about, as you can tell he is a big fan.
▶ 0:51:32Sen. Padilla: They also represent key pieces of what needs to be done to build out a reliable transmission system, particularly as the population and economy grow and the need for electrons continues to grow will stop separately I want to highlight the discussion draft on transmissions that I along with four of my colleagues in this committee have been circulating to address the system more holistically.
▶ 0:51:58Sen. Padilla: The package includes provisions for both of the bills on the agenda today and I want to thank the chair for his focus on this topic. My first question, Mr. ayoub I know you have been responding to senator king's questions about the benefits of these technologies. I want to hear from Mr.
▶ 0:52:19Sen. Padilla: Morenoff on any identified barriers from an administrative or legal standing to the deployment of re-conductoring or re-enhancing technologies at scale? How do we go as quickly as possible?
▶ 0:52:39Mr. Morenoff: Thank you for that question. I think it is currently less of an issue of legal barriers and more about establishing proper incentives. There may be reasons why individual utilities in the particular situation choose to make a different investment rather than utilizing grid enhancing technology.
▶ 0:53:00Mr. Morenoff: I think some of the bills on today's agenda seek to address that challenge, make more incentives and provide those benefits to ratepayers.
▶ 0:53:15Sen. Padilla: What specifically may come from congress at the federal level versus what states may provide?
▶ 0:53:32Mr. Morenoff: Thank you senator. Many utilities would have matters before the commission at the state level. I suspect that there is a common interest across those locals, certainly the case of ferc and here at the committee, doing everything to ensure that rates are just and reasonable. Hopefully the incentives we are discussing can drive forward effort as well as the type of new investment we need.
▶ 0:54:02Sen. Padilla: Moving on to a related topic, folks spent the last five years looking to accelerate generator interconnection. I see the heads nodding. Last year proved -- to get new generation connected to the grid quickly. All of these programs included battery storage.
▶ 0:54:31Sen. Padilla: This is the subcommittee and I will repeat it at the next opportunity for the full committee but I think the chairman would appreciate hearing this. All of these programs included battery storage. All of them were fuel neutral and all characterized projects that are commercially available. Mr.
▶ 0:54:51Sen. Padilla: Morenoff, is further action to reorder interconnection really going to help move the ball forward when so much has already been accomplished?
▶ 0:55:04Mr. Morenoff: As you noted, the commission has taken many steps to accelerate interconnection, both with respect to establishing rules for all jurisdictional transmission providers as well as in responding to the individual filings we've received from multiple regions highlighting their needs.
▶ 0:55:26Mr. Morenoff: Whether there are additional steps to prioritize additional types of resources, we would defer to congress and be available to implement whatever congress may determine is appropriate.
▶ 0:55:35Sen. Padilla: The concern would be if we get to be too prescriptive on the types of projects, then we are no longer neutral on that front and that could undermine the implementation work that has been underway. Thank you for your participation today.
▶ 0:55:57Chair Mccormick: Senator gallego.
▶ 0:55:59Ranking Member Gallego: Thank you chairman. It took the commission more than two years to issue its landmark interconnection order. Conversely the grid power act would require final regulations issued on the bill within 180 days of enactment. Could you explain how the commission could benefit from having more than six months to implement this type of rule?
▶ 0:56:20Mr. Morenoff: Thank you for that question. Large-scale rulemaking involves a series of steps, usually including at least the issuance of a notice of proposed rulemaking. We often receive extensive comments back which we take seriously in developing anything that would be a final rule. It has been the case typically that we have needed longer than six months in order to reach a final rule.
▶ 0:56:50Mr. Morenoff: We also recognize the importance of the types of issues being addressed and that when congress sets a timeline, ferc takes those timelines very seriously and has a good track record of meeting those timelines.
▶ 0:57:04Ranking Member Gallego: Mr. ayoub, does ferc currently have the expertise needed to propose agency actions for right -- for reliability concerns? How helpful is it to have -- nerc sorry, expertise as part of the reliability assessment process?
▶ 0:57:22Mr. Ayoub: Thank you senator. We do have expertise and our priority right now is focused on managing reliability of resources in response to extreme weather and protecting the grid from physical and cyber attacks. In terms of cross agency expertise, I think if it is ok with you I may differ to Mr. morenoff. -- I may defer to Mr. morenoff.
▶ 0:57:54Mr. Morenoff: Thank you. Some of the depth of studies, it is particularly beneficial to have that type of expertise and in particular, the computing power that may be available.
▶ 0:58:10Mr. Morenoff: Some studies that were described in the bill you are referencing, we believe nerc would have the capability of doing, perhaps the national labs and ferc would benefit very much from that information but would not have the capability of doing the studies ourselves.
▶ 0:58:25Ranking Member Gallego: Mr. morenoff -- in a more political process in these determinations. As ferc approval appears necessary to stop members of both parties have spoken about the importance of consistency in permitting across industries for stability of grid and private business. Would adding the risk of more political process hurt certainty and stability for the grid?
▶ 0:58:51Mr. Morenoff: Thank you senator. I would agree that the more certainty we can provide with respect to permitting, and chairman sweatt has spoken more generally about the benefits of providing greater regulatory certainty at a time when it is so desperately needed.
▶ 0:59:10Ranking Member Gallego: Mr. ayoub, turning back to the grid power act, can you talk about prioritizing certain forms of generation over others could impact grid reliability or affordability in the long run?
▶ 0:59:21Mr. Ayoub: As the director of the office of reliability, focusing on strictly cyber and physical security and extreme weather, I want to clarify, is your question specifically to interconnection reform?
▶ 0:59:38Ranking Member Gallego: I'm generally speaking about -- sorry, I'm backing up here. Prioritizing certain parts of generation, when it comes to renewables versus carbon-based versus nuclear. In terms of -- I believe personally that the government should be agnostic. Try to figure out how to get as many electrons on the grid as fast as possible and from everywhere.
▶ 1:00:09Ranking Member Gallego: I want to hear your assertion, whether you agree there should be an agnostic approach to power generation.
▶ 1:00:13Mr. Ayoub: Thank you for the clarification. The commission is technology neutral and it does not pick winners or losers, like specific technologies to be considered.
▶ 1:00:25Ranking Member Gallego: The reason for that is we have seen this administration decide that carbon-based energy is better than renewables and I think at some point when it comes to being able to generate and then move it, sometimes it might be better for us to be using renewables, and cheaper. Sometimes it is good to use carbon and I would be fine with that but I want to make sure it is being decided on an agnostic basis.
▶ 1:00:55Ranking Member Gallego: That is the most important thing to bring down the cost for the consumer. I yelled back. -- I yield back.
▶ 1:01:03Chair Mccormick: Thank you. Mr. morenoff, let me begin by asking about the rewire act. As we know, re-conductoring allows us to increase capacity using existing transmission lines. Based on ferc's experience, how much additional capacity can re-conductoring make on the system and to what extent are existing utilities already using this approach?
▶ 1:01:32Mr. Morenoff: I could talk about that broadly and then my colleague may have additional thoughts but I think the observation is correct, that there is great potential from the application of re-conductoring and other advanced technologies in order to get more out of our existing system. Although I don't have a particular percentage in mind. I do think we have seen as some utilities --
▶ 1:02:01Chair Mccormick: Where are we at this point?
▶ 1:02:04Mr. Morenoff: I don't have a number.
▶ 1:02:06Mr. Ayoub: I don't have a percentage of utilities adopting it but I know it is becoming more popular for the obvious reasons, where we are pushing more electrons through the transmission lines without building new lines.
▶ 1:02:22Chair Mccormick: Great. This question would go to both of you I think. We are seeing renewed growth across -- in terms of electricity demand, across and over sectors. How is ferc assessing the implications of that growth for grid reliability, and what trends are you seeing on the interconnection queue today?
▶ 1:02:51Mr. Ayoub: I can speak to the reliability side. Thank you for the question. As you are aware, the nerc issues a long-term reliability assessment every year that looks 10 years ahead and looks at the entire continent and through that assessment, really looks at where there are generation deficiencies, transmission issues, and they come up with a map every year as a snapshot.
▶ 1:03:21Mr. Ayoub: We work closely with nerc looking at the long-term reliability assessment and through that, the commission does approve some processes which Mr. morenoff could go into more detail on but from our standpoint, working with nerc we do identify through studies where those reliability gaps are.
▶ 1:03:43Chair Mccormick: Thank you senator --
▶ 1:03:45Mr. Morenoff: Thank you senator. I think the slow pace of interconnection, it can sometimes take seven or eight years for a proposed project to move through the queue. Always a problem for drawing the investment that was needed. As the pace of load growth has increased so dramatically, that has become not just a frustration but a dramatic problem in terms of having the adequate generation resources.
▶ 1:04:14Mr. Morenoff: I think the commission's actions over the last several years reflect steps to address that. Both in terms of establishing more effective baseline rules through order 2023 and also recognizing that individual regions face different challenges. Looking at the proposals they brought to ferc, to say one are the resources they need and trying to look for ways in the short term to further expedite the processing of those generated resources.
▶ 1:04:46Mr. Morenoff: One other observation in that respect is that above and beyond what the commission has already improved comp -- approved, there are some transition providers looking for ways to adopt other advanced technologies into their interconnection processes and there seems to be great potential to further expedite that processing through the use of those technologies.
▶ 1:05:06Chair Mccormick: Good, thank you. Mr. ayoub, I want to ask about the liquid cooling for ai act. As we know it is centers are crucial to winning the ai race with china. Data centers annual energy use could grow from 4.4% of the total annual consumption to 12% by 2028.
▶ 1:05:28Chair Mccormick: What changes has ferc observed in the scale and pace of those large requests and is the current system keeping pace with that demand or do you see strains emerging?
▶ 1:05:40Mr. Ayoub: I will start with the legislation. I understand it is directed at the doe but I did want to comment that while the commission is technology neutral, any technology that could lower the consumption from data centers would be a good thing for the grid.
▶ 1:06:01Mr. Ayoub: In terms of large load connections and applications to the commission as my colleague had said, there have been some orders that the commission has issued but I could turn it over to Mr. morenoff for details on the orders themselves. I want to make sure I am careful with what is x partake and what is not -- what is ex parte and what is not.
▶ 1:06:27Mr. Morenoff: The issues that will be jurisdictional and what will be state jurisdiction is not entirely clear but the commission has taken actions within our jurisdiction to ensure that there are -- there is greater clarity about the rules. As to the context of large loads in the context of generation, and I think that clarity will help provide greater investment incentives as well.
▶ 1:06:53Chair Mccormick: Is there anything either of you would like to offer in addition to the question you were asked or your initial statements?
▶ 1:07:05Mr. Morenoff: Just to thank you for the opportunity and for the leadership that this committee is demonstrating on these important issues. Ferc values the opportunity to be part of that continuing discussion.
▶ 1:07:20Chair Mccormick: Mr. ayoub?
▶ 1:07:25Mr. Ayoub: My family is thrilled to be here today and speaking for my office, they are always available for technical assistance on future bills.
▶ 1:07:35Chair Mccormick: Thank you for your time. Thank you for your families, for being here. I want to recognize each member in attendance and have them noted by the clerk. I want to thank you for coming. We are trying to get a lot done and your expertise is very helpful. Official questions for the record, I don't think we had any but those questions and statements are due by 6:00 p.m. Today.
▶ 1:08:05Chair Mccormick: And with that, the hearing is adjourned. Thank you.