▶ 0:15:54>> I'm going to call the meeting to order. We are going to talk about nuclear weapons in the national nuclear security administration. All of us know what you do. You are in charge of the weapons stock -- stockpile and nonproliferation and nuclear propulsion for our navy.
▶ 0:16:24The president's proposed budget, I was looking at it for we started, it is a substantial increase by 35%. Most of that has to do with modernizing and buying new nuclear weapons. We are clearly behind other countries, including but not limited to china. I want to hear from you today.
▶ 0:16:59About a number of things. But one of the things I want to talk about is how we are going to accomplish our ends of the next 15 or 20 years, but do it efficiently. The days of blank checks, particularly during the cold war, argon. -- argon. This is very important.
▶ 0:17:24But we have to do better, it seems to me, in terms of our results. The president's budget, it puts a lot of money in this. We had -- we put money in reconciliation for the agency. But we keep putting money, may be in your opinion, not enough, but we do keep putting money in plutonium pits, for example.
▶ 0:17:55We are not getting enough pets. We need more. I'm not sure money is altogether the problem. And I want to talk about that. But I will save all of my other remarks for later. I will turn to the vice chair of the subcommittee and the vice chair of the whole committee, senator murray.
▶ 0:18:18Sen. Murray: Thank you very much, chair kennedy. That national nuclear security administration plays a crucial role detailing our nation's nuclear weapons stockpile, safely and reliably powering the navy's nuclear powered fleet, keeping nuclear weapons out of the wrong hands, and advancing critical nonproliferation efforts. Nsa labs are on the front lines repelling new technologies like ai to answer critical national secured questions. Stakes for this work could not be higher.
▶ 0:18:49Sen. Murray: It is really crucial that we make a balanced investments, inventing important defense programs, as well as nuclear nonproliferation work. The course of that work is also crucial we make sure these dollars are being spent efficiently and effectively. What I see from trump's budget is not balanced in the least. He wants to boost the war spending by roughly half $1 trillion and cut investments from families.
▶ 0:19:19Sen. Murray: When it comes to her nuclear program, he wants to make completely unjustified and exorbitant increases to weapons spending, while cutting the nuclear nonproliferation work. This was already far from a balanced budget in any way, shape or form. The nsa investments are completely lopsided. Especially when you consider the fact that republicans already shoveled nearly $4 billion for the weapons program into the reconciliation bill last year.
▶ 0:19:46Sen. Murray: We still lack details on exactly how the department plans to spend these resources, making our process this year very difficult. On top of that, the $4 billion spending spree, trump is requesting another $7 billion boost. All while he is slashing funding for nonproliferation programs. Not to mention proposed cuts to medical research, affordable housing, cost saving energy programs, and more.
▶ 0:20:15Sen. Murray: We all agree nsa is an important investment. How we handle our nuclear weapons program, and how we diffuse potential nuclear threats is about as important as it gets. That is why we need to be incredibly thoughtful and ensure due diligence here. It is an enormous response ability.
▶ 0:20:34Sen. Murray: But there is nothing responsible about blindly shoveling billions of dollars at an agency without addressing long-running challenges we have seen regarding project management, cost estimates, and sufficient federal staff to oversee that work. It is critical that nsa do a much better job at providing accurate cost estimates, effectively managing projects, and preventing the massive cost overruns and delays we have seen too much of.
▶ 0:21:03Sen. Murray: Ballooning costs in inaccurate estimates waste taxpayer dollars and make it harder for this committee to do its work. I'm also worried about how president trump's policies are worsening cost overruns. We are seeing tariffs and wars and have hazard filings and grant cancellations. Those will worsen inflation, they fuel uncertainty in the country, they restrict our supply chains for crucial materials, and undermine our ability to keep our crucial work on track.
▶ 0:21:29Sen. Murray: With work this important, we can't just throw money at projects and programs without addressing fundamental project management issues. Or acknowledging root causes of skyrocketing project costs. This week, we cannot ignore ballooning costs. On the weapons inside we also cannot and -- ignored trump's plan to shortchange nonproliferation programs. This work help keeps us safe.
▶ 0:21:56Sen. Murray: It is mind-boggling that at the same time trump is demanding trillions for a war in iran and trying to justify this war on the threat of nuclear proliferation, he is blowing off the very program that wills arounds the clock -- that works across the clock from developing nuclear weapons or acquiring weapons used from material, equipment, technology and expertise. Any to continue investing in the essential nonproliferation work, which helps secure nuclear materials across the globe and keeps people out of harms way.
▶ 0:22:28Sen. Murray: We are talking about programs to ensure detection capabilities, prevent tariffs from accessing nuclear materials and more. This is work the pacific northwest national lab in my state is helping lead and we cannot afford to chore --. To shortchange president trump's budget ignores -- chair kennedy and I worked together to reject similar cuts. Trump proposed to make thoughtful investments across the nsa portfolio.
▶ 0:22:59Sen. Murray: I hope we can do that work again together this time, draft a balanced bipartisan bill, and look forward to working with you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:23:06Chair Kennedy: Thank you, senator. Supper -- senator markey, do you have anything you want to say?
▶ 0:23:13Sen. Markey: , I will hold off until questions are thank you.
▶ 0:23:16Chair Kennedy: We are honored today to have you three gentlemen with us. Congressman brandon williams I think will give the opening statement. He is our nsa administrator. The honorable david beck, deputy at nsa administrator for defensive programs. In the honorable matthew nepali, did I say that right?
▶ 0:23:41Mr. Napoli: Yes.
▶ 0:23:43Chair Kennedy: Our deputy at nsa for our defense nuclear nonproliferation. The proposed budget by the president is 32.8 billion dollars. Most of that is in activities, an increase of 30%. Also a quarter of the naval reactors and the nuclear nonproliferation efforts as well. We will talk about all of them.
▶ 0:24:15Chair Kennedy: Congressman, Mr. administrator, the floor is yours. >>>> thank you, ranking member murray and for your candid and insightful comments regarding the nsa, recognizing both its important as well as its challenges. That is what we are here to talk about as well as to address today. Mr. chairman, a written statement has been provided. . I requested be submitted for the record.
▶ 0:24:43Chair Kennedy: Yes, sir. Without objection.
▶ 0:24:49Mr. Williams: I want to thank the members of the subcommittee for their consistent support of nsa and are no fail national security mission. The additional funding provided in last year's working families tax cut act in fiscal year 2026 appropriations elevated america's nuclear security enterprise, and unable to progress in our most pressing weapon and infrastructure modernization challenges. We have been able to build on our recent success and deliver for the war fighter and the american people.
▶ 0:25:16Mr. Williams: By anecdote, I have served exactly this mission as the strategic missile officer. And have been both a customer of the enterprise and in-service to this mission I hold very dear. Nsa's fiscal year 2027 budget request is 32 point $8 billion and represents president trump's america first division, grounded in peace through strength, or as we like to say, peace through atomic strength.
▶ 0:25:49Mr. Williams: I'm proud to say every weapon in an nsa is either on or ahead of schedule. The budget request supports the continued full and rapid modernization of all three legs of the nuclear triad. It provides critical funding for the revitalization and recapitalization of the production infrastructure that underpins our weapons modernization.
▶ 0:26:10Mr. Williams: It maintains america's critical edge in national security science by building on the exquisite capabilities of our incredible national security laboratories that they have nurtured for decades. It also supports a robust nonproliferation and counterterrorism portfolio that serves as america's shield against nuclear and radiological attack. These capabilities serve as the first and last lines of defense for the united states and our interests.
▶ 0:26:38Mr. Williams: At the same time, they will advance the president's energy dominance objectives ensuring the global interest in nuclear power will be met by american leadership. Finally, it builds on nsa -- on nnsa, the strongest force for peace and freedom on earth.
▶ 0:27:00Mr. Williams: Our ballistic missile submarines will remain the sentinels guarding our second strike capability while our attack submarines and aircraft carriers will bring american power anywhere on earth to protect our vital interests. In any unprecedented era, we faced two p are nuclear powers. Keeping america safe, mean business as usual.
▶ 0:27:19Mr. Williams: Under president trump's leadership, nnsa will return to its manhattan project roots as an organization focused on weapons production to meet current and future department of war requirements for america's strategic deterrence. The men and women of nnsa are true patriots. They are ready to meet this moment and constitute the greatest scientific and engineering organization in the history of humanity. It is an honor to lead them in service to the U.S. and our national security, and under president trump's leadership.
▶ 0:27:49Mr. Williams: With your continued support, we can ensure they have the resources necessary to sustain the momentum, and keep our modernization efforts on track across the country. I look forward to your questions and will give you candid and direct answers to the dirt -- to the best of my ability.
▶ 0:28:04Chair Kennedy: Thank you. My understanding, gentlemen, is that you didn't want to make statements? Ok. Let's start with questions. I'm going to hold my questions until everybody finishes. Senator murray will be first.
▶ 0:28:25Sen. Murray: Thank you, Mr. chairman. The nonproliferation program plays a really critical role in protecting americans and our allies from nuclear threats, investigating and countering nuclear smuggling, monitoring and verifying nuclear treaty compliance, preventing and mitigating the effects of radiological instance worldwide. I wanted to ask you today, Mr. napoli, as international tensions rise, this work is more important than ever.
▶ 0:28:58Sen. Murray: If we are successful and denuclearizing iran, what programs are responsible for that work and what does it entail?
▶ 0:29:05Mr. Napoli: Thank you, senator, for the question of the national nuclear security administration through the office of defense nuclear nonproliferation has the unique and unmatched capability to deny, detect, and defeat our adversaries from a radiological weapon. Through the funding of this committee, defense nuclear nonproliferation maintains a broad set of capabilities in this regard. And they are very diverse.
▶ 0:29:35Mr. Napoli: That is removing and securing of nuclear materials, the technical ability to address the entire fuel cycle, including centrifuges and uranium conversion facilities. The ability to detect weaponization programs. The ability to enact verification expertise and work in concert with the international atomic energy agency, and respond through our nuclear emergency support team better known as nest.
▶ 0:30:04Mr. Napoli: We draw on experts within the nnsa headquarters and sites nationwide. It takes a weapons program to know a weapons program. Our team has a track record of success in this area, addressing international threats, legacy ones including removing how enriched uranium from kazakhstan after the fall of the soviet union, dismantling libya's nuclear program in the early 2000's, and material removals
▶ 0:30:36Mr. Napoli: From's iraq in the early 2000 as well. We also worked to convert research reactors from highly enriched uranium to lower enriched uranium. We were to have sources -- two primary examples in the recent months, we secured materials from the university of georgia, as well as lebanon across the oceans, showing a broad range of capabilities of our team. Nnsa and the office of -- stands ready to rise to any challenge.
▶ 0:31:09Sen. Murray: I think you made the point that this is really a critical program. You can see why I was concerned when dn and carried out layoffs to cut programs last year after the bad request from trump. Congress rejected that thankfully and worked together to pass a bill, and restore the funding. I wanted to ask you with that funding restored, what are you doing to get those projects back up and running?
▶ 0:31:36Sen. Murray: It takes critically, really great people to run those programs. I want to know what you are doing to get them back up and running.
▶ 0:31:45Mr. Napoli: I appreciate the question. As you noted, people are at the heart of our business. I will continue to be an advocate for all limit -- all men and women of the national nuclear security administration. I want to thank you for the generous appropriations provided in fy 26. We are using those in a variety of methods to scale up and execute our mission priorities. Things like security by design --
▶ 0:32:09Sen. Murray: Are you able to get qualified people back? Are they onboard? Where are you in restoring all of the cuts?
▶ 0:32:16Mr. Napoli: We are continuing efficiency in our hiring and targeted hiring selections to make sure we can execute the totality of our mission.
▶ 0:32:24Sen. Murray: You back up to where you were?
▶ 0:32:26Mr. Napoli: I'm in the process of evaluating our future needs, and continuing to hire the best and brightest in the united states to come to the national nuclear security --
▶ 0:32:41Sen. Murray: Keep our committee informed of where you are in the hiring as we work on this budget. It is really critical we have your agency up running and capable. Administrator williams, congress included leng wish to protect programs and projects in the 26 bipartisan bill. Are you executing the fy 26 funding in accordance with the funding level directives we put in that bill?
▶ 0:33:04Mr. Williams: Yes, we are following the direction of the letter of intent provided by congress.
▶ 0:33:08Sen. Murray: So you are not planning any reprogramming's would save -- move money away from congressionally directed levels?
▶ 0:33:16Mr. Williams: We are doing some reprogramming internally, as we are allowed by law. I think we are very transparent in everything we are doing. We are transparent to you and the committee to keep things moving. If you are talking about redirecting ob ba funds, the answer is no.
▶ 0:33:37Sen. Murray: In our bill, we directed funding to go to the research development nonproliferation stewardship program, nuclear detonation detection reactor conversion and uranium supply. You are not redirecting any of those funds? Those were congressionally redirected.
▶ 0:33:55Mr. Williams: I don't believe so. I really view the nonproliferation mission as part of the deterrence mission. They all serve deterrence for our country and our ability to detect other programs. It is a key part of our national deterrence.
▶ 0:34:14Sen. Murray: Ok. Thank you for that answer. Before trump took office, nnsa had 2000 employees and was hiring more. Under president trump and elon musk in the doge thing, you had a lot of cats. By the time you stopped the bleeding, we know hundreds of, key staff the people who manage the nuclear stockpile, were gone. I know you are trying to undo the damage.
▶ 0:34:43Sen. Murray: Your budget request of 10% increase for federal salaries to support additional hiring across nnsa. What is your target hiring number right now?
▶ 0:34:49Mr. Williams: We are looking to hire about 100 new personnel. In terms of federal employees, across our enterprise. Again, as Dr. napoli said, those are targeted hires. It is the quality of the people that we bring in that is really important, and we do so in an efficient way.
▶ 0:35:13Sen. Murray: I know under the doge cuts, a lot of people were gone. Can you tell the committee how much it costs the taxpayers to recruit and hire back hundreds of those people?
▶ 0:35:24Mr. Williams: Honestly, that all happened before I was confirmed at the end of september.
▶ 0:35:29Sen. Murray: So you can't tell us?
▶ 0:35:31Mr. Williams: I don't have that information.
▶ 0:35:36Sen. Murray: I think it is important the american people understand the reality. Efficiency is good. We need good people and doge was not efficient and it has cost us money. Just wanted to make that point.
▶ 0:35:46Chair Kennedy: Thank you. Senator heinrich.
▶ 0:35:49Sen. Heinrich: Thank you, chairman. Administrator williams, I've been proud to help grow the budget and more importantly, the workforce at los alamos since arriving to the senate their teen years ago. -- senate 13 years ago. One of the challenges that has created is the local housing challenge. I know you have been to los alamos. It is sort of an island community on top of a mesa. There is not a lot of extra space to put housing.
▶ 0:36:20Sen. Heinrich: Hi secured language in the fy 26 energy and water bill asking nnsa to look at that and come up with potential solutions to the housing problem. Even look at ideas like putting some offices in nearby communities that are less housing constrained. When could I expect that report to be completed and shared with the committee?
▶ 0:36:46Mr. Williams: First let me say my family -- my parents are from new mexico. It was my childhood vacations that were all driving to rouse well and santa fe, etc. I've been camping in the wilderness and places that perhaps you know. It's beautiful. Beautiful area. We are very aware of the housing needs, as you know.
▶ 0:37:15Mr. Williams: That is important to our workforce in that region. And it's barrier to hiring. The very best people to settle there. I also will tell you that you should be incredibly proud of the workforce in los alamos that is working on the plutonium mission. I will turn it over to Mr. beck to give more details on our work with los alamos county, in addressing these issues.
▶ 0:37:44Mr. Williams: But the work they are doing is surpassing in pit production anybody's wildest dreams of what was possible. That is directly because of Mr. beck's leadership, and particularly the greatest commitment and effort by the workforce and management at los alamos. For those details, Mr. beck, maybe you can help out.
▶ 0:38:09Sen. Heinrich: Can you get your mike?
▶ 0:38:13Mr. Beck: Thanks, sorry. We are very concerned about, as you are, about housing. I have spent seven years in new mexico working at los alamos. I know it fairly well. The importance of adequate housing is essential for recruitment and retention. On the campus report, there is an analysis underway, and we will share that report with you, the study results come after the completion later this summer.
▶ 0:38:42Sen. Heinrich: Ok. Administrator, I want to jump to the issue of cleaning up excavate and chromium, which was his -- which is related to los alamos. That has currently stalled out because of a dispute between doe and the new mexico environment department. While that dispute continues, no activities are taking place to mitigate that plume.
▶ 0:39:08Sen. Heinrich: There is a real serious concern at the pueblo, a local tribe that is just next-door, about the quality and impact to their drinking water. Is that something you can look into and figure out what we need to do to resolve the dispute and get progress on that plume?
▶ 0:39:26Mr. Williams: Thank you for the question. I'm aware of the issue. And have been briefed on it several times. The strategy we had in place was working, and we would like to continue for that to work.
▶ 0:39:41Mr. Williams: I discussed with my counterpart at doe, tim walz, the head of the mission, and he asked me if we good -- if we could go out and see the governor, and meet with local officials and try to get a resolution in place. I would welcome your advice and any assistance you have on brokering that. Uncommitted to go out there.
▶ 0:40:08Sen. Heinrich: We would be very happy to help facilitate that visit. Mr. beck, I'm running out of time, but I want to bring a fusion real quickly. We have had a number of private sector actors a new mexico partnering with sandia to build on the capabilities. We know china is racing ahead in the space.
▶ 0:40:38Sen. Heinrich: A public-private partnership could significantly accelerate nnsa's ability to deliver a high yield fusion capability. Can you talk to me a little bit about how nnsa is thinking about the space, and what some of the opportunities are?
▶ 0:40:50Mr. Beck: You are exactly right. The competition with china is crucial to our ability to maintain our deterrent. We are working with a number of fusion companies to review their technology process, the progress, and discuss our partnerships. In 2024, we are moving forward on a laser base. We have creative's in place with fusion firms to upgrade the z machine as india.
▶ 0:41:21Mr. Beck: We are in talks with companies to evaluate the technology of coal readiness with competition.
▶ 0:41:29Sen. Heinrich: Thank you, chairman.
▶ 0:41:31Chair Kennedy: Senator hagerty.
▶ 0:41:33Sen. Hagerty: I would like to start with you, you and I had a good meeting in my office not long ago. You articulated your vision for the nnsa. I very much appreciated that, that you want to create and maintain a strong nuclear deterrent, in order to accelerate production. And that you want to build our nuclear capabilities. Those objectives seemed straightforward but also incredibly consequential.
▶ 0:42:00Sen. Hagerty: If I think about it in the context of where our adversaries are going, it becomes even more consequential and more critically important that we build and expand our nuclear capability. I just want to commend you for the budget request you put forward. It calls for a 12% increase, with a heightened focus on weapons activities and production modernization.
▶ 0:42:30Sen. Hagerty: To budget signals a clear prioritization of strengthening the U.S. nuclear deterrent amid rising local competition. At the same time, much of our infrastructure dates back decades. Key programs continue to face cost growth and schedule delays. Bear with me a second here.
▶ 0:42:49Sen. Hagerty: Speaking of cost overruns, according to gao's february 2026 report on nnsa major construction projects, nnsa's q mueller cost on baseline projects increased from $2.1 billion in 2023 up to $4.8 billion in 2025. Most of these overruns are associated with uranium processing facilities. Seven other major projects have incurred or expect to incur a cost overrun of more than 20%.
▶ 0:43:19Sen. Hagerty: While you have only been serving this role for roughly six or seven months, would you mind to discuss your observations thus far of what you think the root causes have been for these cost overruns? How they got so egregious? And under your leadership, how will you make certain these cost overruns are brought back under control?
▶ 0:43:37Mr. Williams: Thank you for the question. I want to start with the importance of the mission. As I shared with you in your office, I was during -- in the protests of may of 1989. I saw firsthand the students aspiration, went and visited beijing university antifreedom wall and experienced that for a couple days. And then the crackdown which I did not observe, but came a month later.
▶ 0:44:04Mr. Williams: It inspired me to volunteer to serve in the nuclear navy and I spent six strategic deterrent patrols in the pacific countering the threat that we are meeting today. This is a very important mission in the production mission that is in support that the cost overruns are deeply concerning and troubling to me. I can tell you under our leadership, we will not do business in the same way. We have spent a lot of time in root cause analysis, exactly as you suggested.
▶ 0:44:37Mr. Williams: I would say just simply that one is that we committed to projects without having all of the requirements, exactly all of our needs nailed down. When you do that and you start designing and eventually commit, that the budgets grow and grow because you have not had the discipline, as any big complex project, to get all of the requirements upfront and nailed down. Frankly, it is very consistent across government programs, particularly acute to nnsa.
▶ 0:45:08Mr. Williams: Second is what I would call a culture of risk aversion. I often refer or compare it to going to a football game where the goal is that the refs never make a bad call. After each play, all of the refs get together and watch 50 replays from every different angle. Anyone referee can stop play, forgetting that there are teams on the field.
▶ 0:45:38Mr. Williams: And that is basically what we have become at nnsa. We have forgotten we are in great power competition in changing our culture. The third thing I will say is accountability. We are going through and looking at every contract, major contract, and making sure, where necessary, will re-competing those contracts to make sure the contractors goals are aligned with the government goals. And that is to move things to the left and deliver them on time. It is a different time at nnsa.
▶ 0:46:11Sen. Hagerty: I appreciate your taking it so seriously. Is there anything you need congress to do that will would facilitate -- that would facilitate your efforts?
▶ 0:46:16Mr. Williams: I wish, including my own experience serving in the house, that there were members of congress in both houses that would take time to understand what I call the nuclear iq. To become aware of the threat from china. You serving as ambassador in japan are acutely aware of the threat and the environment.
▶ 0:46:48Mr. Williams: I think we could all stand as a nation to be more cognizant of why we have a nuclear weapons program, what it's for. We are only 3% in the department of defense budget. During the cold war, it was 6% even as it ramped up to vietnam. Deterrence is cheaper than water. I think that awareness and concern for the strategic deterrence would be a great service to the nation.
▶ 0:47:17Sen. Hagerty: Thank you for your efforts to keep us all aware.
▶ 0:47:19Chair Kennedy: Senator hogan.
▶ 0:47:22Sen. King: Thank you, Mr. chair. Also for visiting yesterday. Appreciate it very much. If you would, please update me on the status and how we are doing both on the replacement for the air launched cruise missile and also for the replacement of the icbm, which is sentinel. You are in charge of doing the work on the warhead.
▶ 0:47:52Sen. King: With the w 87 and the other, how are we doing in terms of staying on schedule?
▶ 0:48:00Mr. Williams: Thank you for your question. The airbase is hugely important as it hosts two of the three legs of the triad.
▶ 0:48:12Sen. Hoeven: Era chairman is really excited about that, and cannot say enough the virtues of the modern air force. He is so fired up knowing that is the only airbase in the country. I can't tell you how excited he is about that.
▶ 0:48:29Mr. Williams: There may be competing interests in louisiana. I will not try to stoke that any further. It is critical we have these capabilities to deter china and russia. I think we are all aware of how quickly they are advancing their own nuclear programs. The lrs o is a critical standoff self weapon -- stealth weapon.
▶ 0:49:00Mr. Williams: And the sentinel is long overdue replacement for that. In an essay is responsible for providing the warheads for those, as you point out. We are going to deliver a head of the air force needs, and keep those programs on schedule. We are going to do everything possible to help our partners in the air force stay on track and pull those missions to the left, those programs to the left and deliver earlier wherever we can.
▶ 0:49:32Mr. Williams: Very strong partnership and cooperation.
▶ 0:49:33Sen. Hoeven: That is very encouraging. How about -- this is a budget hearing. Is your budget adequate to keep up with what we are considering? Are you getting any money through reconciliation?
▶ 0:49:46Mr. Williams: We are working on the reconciliation message, in coordination with omb and with the president. I would just point out that historically, the nuclear weapons enterprise, whether that is the atomic energy commission or nnsa is about 3% of the relative spending for the department of defense.
▶ 0:50:08Mr. Williams: I would say if we are going to plus up our defense spending, that that should also be in the nuclear deterrent as well, specifically for the weapons program proportional to 3%. We are working with the appropriate authorities in the administration to make that case.
▶ 0:50:30Sen. Hoeven: Talk about why it is so important that we make this investment in our nuclear triad. Why is that absolutely vital to national security?
▶ 0:50:38Mr. Williams: My model for strategic deterrence is very different, if I may say, for what I think we all grew up with. . I think we all grew up with the model that mutual disturbed -- that we have nuclear weapons so that if they launch theirs, we launch hours and that's it. That is not the greatest threat that we face right now.
▶ 0:50:59Mr. Williams: I think the threat we face is putin or xi who specifically believe that they can use a theater or tactical weapon, or just a handful of weapons, to get on the escalation letter, and to get strategic concessions for the united states and our allies, by crossing the threshold first use of nuclear weapons, it is not an all-out exchange.
▶ 0:51:24Mr. Williams: I think they know that would be suicidal, because our weapon systems are absolutely exquisite and ready, and they know that. If they think that they can escalate to de-escalate, that they can cross the threshold and threaten us and we don't have an adequate response, I think that is the greatest threat to global stability. It's critical we maintain our strategic forces so that we dissuade them of that idea.
▶ 0:51:54Mr. Williams: We have focused really on the big exchange and the bigger weapons systems. I owned that mission on uss georgia. That is why the lrs o is so important. That is why our rapid capabilities is so important. We are moving out on that mission to provide stratcom, to provide combatant commanders exactly that prompt precise and proportional weapons necessary to deter our adversaries.
▶ 0:52:22Sen. Hoeven: The nuclear enterprise, are strategic enterprise, the triad, is the bedrock on which all of our conventional forces rest. And it's vital to make sure somebody doesn't try to escalate for us to be stronger than our adversaries.
▶ 0:52:42Mr. Williams: Second place in deterrence is annihilation or subjugation. And we cannot fail.
▶ 0:52:48Sen. Hoeven: I want to emphasize that our partner for b-52's and others, and we appreciate that very much as does our esteemed chairman.
▶ 0:53:01Mr. Williams: I will visit in the summer and the other in the winter.
▶ 0:53:06Chair Kennedy: You're welcome anytime.
▶ 0:53:09Sen. Hoeven: Thanks to all three of you. Appreciate what you are doing.
▶ 0:53:12Chair Kennedy: Senator hoeven, [indiscernible] senator merkley.
▶ 0:53:21Sen. Merkley: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Thank you all for bringing your expertise. I wanted to ask about the plutonium pit production program. The reason I wanted to ask about that is that we have two different sites for this. We have been doing pits from the very first bomb. We had two different bonds in world war ii, they had two different designs paired one is a pit with compression, a shotgun strategy.
▶ 0:53:53Sen. Merkley: We have been doing this for a long time. When I see $5 billion a year to simply do a new version of something we have done for three quarters of a century, it raises a question of whether this is a program just to keep funneling millions of dollars a year, because this is stuff we know how to do.
▶ 0:54:18Sen. Merkley: Plus, the lawrence livermore and los alamos have done studies where the artificial agents pits and they found no dye good -- no degradation. Is this really a carefully elevated program based on absolute scientific need, or is this a whopper of a subsidy?
▶ 0:54:46Mr. Williams: It is certainly not a subsidy. I studied the plutonium pit aging and I can only provide a scientific explanation. Our weapons are made to survive the most extreme conditions, including in space, including any ballistic missile capabilities that our adversaries offer, which would be to pass through and close to a nuclear detonation.
▶ 0:55:19Mr. Williams: And to arrive on target and deliver the yield as calculated. That is precisely -- and by the way, with tremendous certainty that they will do that. Anything that degrades that is an invitation to our adversaries to test the capability of our deterrence. My job is to make sure they are never tempted in that way. If you have specific questions, I would direct them to Mr. beck who can tell you more.
▶ 0:55:46Sen. Merkley: Mr. beck, we you maybe later come back and go through this? If one looks at those studies from two different laboratories, they are saying this is unnecessary. We have been doing these pits for -- forever. It is not the wrapping and compression that goes around it. It is not a broader weapons system.
▶ 0:56:09Sen. Merkley: Rather than take up my time now, but I do think that it is important to look at programs where there is repeated questions being raised about whether they are critical to national security. We have two different pit production facilities. This is just one of those areas that keeps drawing attention. I would like to get more into the actual science and goal. I don't pick we need to do that today.
▶ 0:56:39Sen. Merkley: Could you come back and a brief those of us who might be interested?
▶ 0:56:43Mr. Beck: I would be glad to.
▶ 0:56:43Sen. Merkley: Thank you very much. Administrator williams, one of the justifications for the war and iran was to secure our nuclear materials. We certainly have made that a priority over time. Not just because of the potential for nuclear secure materials controlled in different states to be a risk for nuclear weapon production, but also a risk for potential terrorist attacks including dirty bombs.
▶ 0:57:18Sen. Merkley: In this budget, it drastically cuts the programs to secure nuclear materials worldwide. I just wanted to get a little sense of why that would be a smart move for us.
▶ 0:57:33Mr. Williams: It is absolutely critical that iran not be allowed to possess a nuclear weapon. I agree with the president on his statement that that is the redline, and that is repeated often by the secretary of war as well as the white house.
▶ 0:57:55Mr. Williams: The tools that we need to detect a weapon program and detect their capability and to interdict it are very well supported, as Dr. napoli pointed out. Maybe you can provide more context in terms of our abilities.
▶ 0:58:19Sen. Merkley: This is not just about the pathway to a nuclear weapon. This is also about various materials in various countries where there is a change of government, and often in the chaos of surrounding that, there is concern of the control of nuclear weapons. That is why we have had a robust program to track those materials around the world and get involved, often in secret programs to secure those when they are at risk. So they don't end up in a dirty bomb. Go ahead.
▶ 0:58:43Mr. Beck: Thank you for the comments. The office of --
▶ 0:58:46Mr. Napoli: Our mission is to deny, detect, and defeat state and nonstate actors from acquiring radiological weapons. We have a dedicated team of men and women here at the national nuclear security administration and across the labs, plans and sites to execute that mission. That is from material removal, to ensure it does not get into why do we cut this program?
▶ 0:59:13Mr. Napoli: I would argue the president's budget request is mission capable and will continue to allow us to execute our mission worldwide. For example, we are conducting material removals across the globe. I previously mentioned the material removals we are doing here at home. We just made the state of south carolina the 13th state seizing free and we are on track to meet all requirements here in the united states.
▶ 0:59:38Mr. Napoli: Then we go into other areas around the globe to conduct that business as well, including a removal team we had in lebanon, which was a difficult situation, but we executed that mission with precision.
▶ 0:59:49Sen. Merkley: Thank you. Appreciate that. My time is up and I think it is a very important mission.
▶ 1:00:02Mr. Williams: There is a number of missions we can't refer to in open testimony. If there is an invitation, we would be happy to brief you on that. I would say Dr. napoli's team is extraordinarily capable and are doing extraordinary missions around the world, and are very successful at it. No one comes close worldwide to that.
▶ 1:00:22Mr. Williams: For example, if I may, following the invasion of russia into ukraine, because of the long-standing cooperation between dn and and the ukrainian government, we were invited by the ukrainians to help secure their nuclear power plants. The world has never faced a situation of a nuclear power plant in a war zone before. It was Dr.
▶ 1:00:48Mr. Williams: Napoli's team before arrival but that same team who helped advise the ukrainians and securing their grid and providing backup power to their nuclear power plants. And really coming up with creative ways to interdict grounds and protection of those facilities. We really are extremely capable and it think the president's budget continues that capability as Dr. napoli indicated.
▶ 1:01:16Sen. Merkley: The thing that motivated my question was the $135 million cut to the global security account. And just wanting to make sure that that cut would not reduce the success in this very important mission.
▶ 1:01:34Mr. Napoli: We will absolutely be successful. Our business is scalable. We will execute that in an efficient manner as we move forward.
▶ 1:01:42Chair Kennedy: Senator murray has more questions.
▶ 1:01:47Sen. Murray: Mr. beck, I wanted to ask you a question about the pit mines. You released a memo outlining a series of transformation objectives, including a reevaluation of all of the ongoing major production infrastructure projects across the nnsa complex. One of the most costly efforts at the agency now is the pit production mission.
▶ 1:02:10Sen. Murray: Nnsa is slated to release a long-awaited integrated, master schedule for pit production that outlines the two site construction schedule. Can you clarify, does the fy 27 budget proposed funding for projects based on the existing plan for pit production? Or does it factor in changes you are pursuing in your transformational objectives effort?
▶ 1:02:35Mr. Beck: I'm so glad you asked that question. One of the reasons why -- there are a couple reasons I met this job. I care about the mission. The other is I'm frustrated about some of the things you have already mentioned, about how expensive it is to build facilities in the world that we are in. The administrators mentioned some of the reasons for that.
▶ 1:03:00Mr. Beck: The transformation objectives are an effort to try to impart greater urgency into our production so we can create -- get to the deterrence level we need going forward in the future. We are looking hard at the pit strategy. Our pit strategy is we are looking at it from this affect where we are bringing all of the pit capabilities together into looking at it as a systems approach.
▶ 1:03:29Mr. Beck: We have an integrated plan for the work that has done -- that is done at los alamos. We don't have a complete schedule that includes cement river because the cd2-3 is not quite in. We expect that the summer. We are moving forward with an improved strategy to be able to make more pits faster. Our intent is to change the way we do business.
▶ 1:03:58Mr. Beck: This is not the nnsa of two years ago. We are moving fast to make -- the number of pits we plan to make this year at los alamos, we got that done in the first half of the year. We will make three times that number by the end of the year. That is done in cooperation with all of the sites. So it's a total team effort across the sites.
▶ 1:04:30Mr. Beck: The facility of savannah river will not be ready until the 2030's. We are trying to move that forward faster. But we are going through -- one of the objectives in that list is to evaluate every line item and capital project we have to read -- to look at three things. Do we have the right leadership? Federal and contractor leadership. We have the right strategy? Many times we do not. And do we have the right operational drumbeat and metrics to achieve where we go?
▶ 1:05:00Mr. Beck: As we look at that, we are making significant improvements to move forward faster. I'm encouraged by that. By the great work that has been done by the savannah river and los alamos. People that are assigned pits. They are doing extremely good work this year and I'm proud of what has been happening so far.
▶ 1:05:17Sen. Murray: From appropriations perspective here, that is our job, if the execution strategy on some of the largest projects you have changed, how will you work with this committee so we understand where the resources are going that we are providing?
▶ 1:05:34Mr. Beck: This is my second time in government. This is my 50th year in the nuclear weapons business. Having an agile strategy is one thing. One of the challenges you have is the budget is not as agile as you would like it to be. It takes a long time to get to this stage. We will work with you closely, we will work with your staff and brief your staff.
▶ 1:06:00Mr. Beck: We have spent many times briefing the staff on how to move forward and where we need help. There are some things in particular, some programs that I think makes sense to move forward, to be more agile.
▶ 1:06:17Sen. Murray: Speaking on behalf of the chair and myself, we need to know what those are and where you are going so we know what resources need to be provided, and where those are going. Those are critical decisions for us to understand.
▶ 1:06:26Mr. Beck: We have met with your staff this week and last week and we are working through that process to make that happen. Thank you. >> thanks, german. Administrator williams, I want to talk about the genesis mission. Because it is highlighting what I care most about in the ai space, which is solving hard science and engineering problems. I don't care as much about chatbots. I want to be able to do big things in the science space. Nnsa is at the forefront of a lot of those problems.
▶ 1:06:57Mr. Beck: I know sandia national labs is really excited about what the genesis mission could mean for their work. I want to make sure that nnsa is an equal partner with the new ai quantum office in developing genesis mission platform capabilities. Can you talk a little bit about how the fy 27 budget we split between you and undersecretary guilt?
▶ 1:07:21Mr. Williams: Let me tea that up by a broader discussion of genesis. I think it is critical. You will see secretary gill out in front he is a tremendous leader, very qualified. And the office of science has a big impact to make on our economy, on materials, on health, all kinds of things that matter to all americans, as well as to the world. They will enable that mission.
▶ 1:07:48Mr. Williams: They get to do that with the national labs, the science labs, and energy labs. To get to do that in an unclassified setting. Because of that, they are able to attract cooperation and participation by universities, companies, by all kinds of researchers, and any open environment to develop those tools. Our mission is very different. We exist at the classified side.
▶ 1:08:19Mr. Williams: But we are partnered side-by-side. My statement is the platform of genesis, even though there will be a very hard boundary between unclassified and classified side, but the platform will be the same. I think if ai is like a river, and if you are not in the middle of the river where the current is the fastest, you will fall behind. If we get all of the silos in U.S.
▶ 1:08:44Mr. Williams: Government of different projects, with their own technology stacks, their own technology decisions -- I come from the I.t. Industry -- that you will end up in these backwaters. And when they are finished, they will look up and the canoe will be way down the river, and they will not be able to contribute to it. The idea behind genesis is that it is a common platform across the permanent of energy.
▶ 1:09:12Mr. Williams: We are working with inter-agencies, the department of war, nasa, others, to come participate in this. I don't want to control it or control how they spend it or where they spend. That's the plan going forward. To your question, our funding through appropriations, through your committee, goes to programs. There is a lot of concern about program money leaking over into science projects.
▶ 1:09:43Mr. Williams: Through an and -- through nnsa instead of a national security mission. The office of science does not have that problem. Are appropriation requests look very different. It is our hope that we get, and I am directing that we start cap standing of the capabilities in total lockstep partnership with science, so that any of our programmatic spending, which we spent $600 million this past year on ai technologies and capabilities inside the nnsa mission.
▶ 1:10:14Mr. Williams: That we are able to do that in lockstep. That is a broad brush but it is critical as U.S. government, that we do this in a really thoughtful way. Because the competition with china is absolutely existential. I believe conquering ai and using it for the benefit of all americans is as important as mastering the strong force of the atom that led to the manhattan project and lead to our strong strategic deterrent. It's that critical.
▶ 1:10:43Sen. Heinrich: Mr. beck, before I run out of time, the crest project will modernize the aging annular core research reactor at sandia. That is what enables their radiation affects testing. Can you give me an update on the status of the project, and talk about what is in the budget request for crest this year?
▶ 1:11:06Mr. Beck: Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. I reviewed that project this week. We are looking hard at our path forward in preparation from the 20 a budget bill. -- 28 bill. Further reactors, there are funding gaps causing staggered awards. We are working on those.
▶ 1:11:35Mr. Beck: The nnsa is working on ways to speed up the project because it is essential to our mission. I use enabling the mission as a litmus test for everything we do. This passes that test by far. We have to be able to do what this reactor does for us. We are looking to reduce the schedule risk, but crest is an important part of our program that we look forward. It is the only survivability testing option that we have.
▶ 1:12:01Mr. Williams: I may add that I believe approval and first funding for the crest program is maybe the very first thing I signed when I was confirmed as administrator. Like 48 hours after being confirmed.
▶ 1:12:13Sen. Heinrich: Let us know how we can help. Thank you.
▶ 1:12:18Chair Kennedy: Gentlemen, I have listened very carefully. You guys are good. And I really appreciate that. This is an area you want to screw around. -- this is not an area you want to screw around. I hope you can go back and get some of your former colleagues back on board.
▶ 1:12:48Chair Kennedy: I want to talk in a second about money. But first, I want to ask not -- Dr. napoli a very unfair question. I look around the world, this is not a criticism of anybody. Anybody. I look around the world. I look at the conflict in the middle east. I look at ukraine. I look at russia.
▶ 1:13:20Chair Kennedy: I look at north korea. It has been really quiet but that doesn't mean under the surface they are not moving. Obviously I look at china. I look at the things going on in south america. Some of our neighbors are moving for its democracy, but some of them are moving towards authoritarianism. Certainly the case in sub-saharan africa.
▶ 1:13:54Chair Kennedy: And we have learned a lot from the conflict in iran, it seems to me. A lot of people have had to show their cards. And you know, the question I ask myself, let's take japan. Wealthy country, smart people, developed. If I'm running japan, I'm going to be thinking about getting a nuclear weapon. Aren't you?
▶ 1:14:27Chair Kennedy: I mean, are not you? Let's be honest. If I'm the uae, they just got out of opec. If I'm the uae, thinking, my god . I've got a neighbor who is charles manson. I would be thinking about getting a weapon. How do we stop that?
▶ 1:14:59Mr. Napoli: Senator, that is a great question. If you care about nonproliferation, if you really care about countries that are aspirational and express interest in getting a new their weapon, but are allies of the united states, and you can pick any country.
▶ 1:15:21Mr. Napoli: Poland, germany, japan, saudi arabia, any country that might have those aspirations, confidence in the american deterrent, the american extended deterrence, capability and credibility, is the best argument for not developing their own weapons program.
▶ 1:15:39Chair Kennedy: Is the confidence there?
▶ 1:15:41Mr. Napoli: If we continue to demonstrate our commitment to modernize our strategic deterrent, to address the tactical and theater threat and counter that threat in earnest, if we do our jobs right, yes, they will believe in peace through american atomic strength.
▶ 1:16:07Mr. Napoli: As has been set for the last 80 years. If our allies doubt that, we will have a proliferation problem and that's exactly why we need to make historic and generational investments in the infrastructure and commitment to our strategic weapons capability.
▶ 1:16:23Chair Kennedy: Thank you.
▶ 1:16:26Mr. Napoli: Before I answer your question, I want to lament that I was born and raised in the great state of louisiana, I was educated in louisiana so I want to take you for your leadership in the state. I am a graduate of louisiana tech and I'm proud of that.
▶ 1:16:43Chair Kennedy: Good school.
▶ 1:16:43Mr. Napoli: After I graduated I joined the military. I served my entire career in the department of the navy, defending our nation. The topics you bring up are profound. The administrator hit it well on extended deterrence. Or support of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, I will be on a train to new york to attend the nonproliferation treaty review conference and lobby for nonproliferation.
▶ 1:17:15Mr. Napoli: So I take the questions you ask with absolute gravity, the responsibilities associated with that and I will work tirelessly to accomplish that during my time in office.
▶ 1:17:28Chair Kennedy: Here is what I see. And I could be wrong. I see xi jinping and vladimir putin and the supreme leader in iran, the new one as well as the deceased former, working together. I see xi as the quarterback. It is a partnership, but the managing partner is president xi.
▶ 1:17:57Chair Kennedy: Their goal is to have russia dominate eastern, central and eastern europe. And have iran dominate the middle east. It is their goal.
▶ 1:18:16Chair Kennedy: And their goal is to have china dominate the indo pacific, with freedom to roam in sub-saharan africa, and freedom to roam along with putin, in south and central america. By the way, putin and xi have plans for both the arctic and space.
▶ 1:18:46Chair Kennedy: Now, you can call yourself what you want, and isolationists, and interventionist, a neocon. You can call yourself what you want. That is -- not a world with the sick for america. I don't want america to be the world's. I don't want those guys to be the world police. I don't think america first needs to be america alone but it's complicated.
▶ 1:19:18Chair Kennedy: America together implies that everybody has to pick up their share of the check. We can't afford to do all of this anymore. I guess every generation says this. I have never seen the world more dangerous than it is now. I haven't.
▶ 1:19:38Chair Kennedy: I think we have to come to some sort of understanding, I would like to see friendship but understanding, with europe. And with japan, and south korea and australia and canada. I think it will take all of us. Everybody has to pay their way.
▶ 1:20:11Chair Kennedy: I think we can hold the line on the proliferation. Unless people think they can't count on us. Ok? The south koreans are a proud people. And what they have done in a short period of time is a miracle. They have gone from dirt poor to gosh, just breathtaking. They aren't going to sit there and not protect themselves.
▶ 1:20:43Chair Kennedy: Right now they think they can count on us. They can, but that's part of what this is all about. I'm not going to ask you to comment on this and I know I'm putting you on the spot because we don't need someone saying Dr. napoli says japan is going to. Get a nuclear weapon you didn't comment on that, but I'm not bambi's baby brother. I know they have talked about it. Here's the deal on the money.
▶ 1:21:15Chair Kennedy: The president says we are going to spend $100 trillion extra on defense and that includes you gentlemen and your confidence. I don't know yet how we are going to do that.
▶ 1:21:31Chair Kennedy: My guess is that if we try to spend an extra $1.5 trillion on the fence -- defense over than -- the budget, our democratic friends will have something to say. Just honest.
▶ 1:21:50Chair Kennedy: So at some point, the powers that be around here, I'm still trying to figure out who they are, are going to say we need to do another reconciliation bill and spend some of that money on reconciliation. Right now, the record on reconciliation is not real good, ok? So I don't know how all of to fit in.
▶ 1:22:16Chair Kennedy: But it's clear to me that we have to spend more money on defense. It's clear to me that we have to spend more money on our nuclear stockpile and nonproliferation, and reactors. But guys, we don't have a penny to waste. I want to ask the hard questions. Do we need two newtonian pitch productions facilities?
▶ 1:22:47Chair Kennedy: I'm not saying we don't but we will have to talk about it. How do we hire the people we need? Every single one of you can go tomorrow in the private sector and quadruple your salary with stock options. How do we attract people like you to come into government? And help us deal with all of this? It is easy to raise questions. You know.
▶ 1:23:16Chair Kennedy: I admire the hell out of the problem but I don't know the solution. That's what we are going to be doing together. There is no bigger part of this energy and water development budget than what you listed. Ok? We will get together privately, publicly, if we need to have a classified briefing, tell me. Don't get pissed off and quit.
▶ 1:23:48Chair Kennedy: We need you on board because this is serious stuff. Serious, serious stuff. I've -- it's not just the number of weapons. It's what they can do. And how we deploy them. And I am going to hush, but we have to keep the u.k. And australia hitched up on the submarine program.
▶ 1:24:19Chair Kennedy: There are lots of things we need to explore. So we want your input. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thanks to the folks behind you, who do a lot of the work. Thank you, guys. Take the rest of the day off. Listen, I have to say this. Written questions for the record submitted by 5:00 p.m.
▶ 1:24:48Chair Kennedy: Wednesday, may 6, we would appreciate your prompt responses although I know you have other things to do. We may meet again, because I have learned a lot today and I want my colleagues who couldn't be here today, one of whom is senator graham, we had to put a muzzle on him this afternoon and we will take it off. Like him to be here so we can talk about the plutonium.
▶ 1:25:20Chair Kennedy: My guess is he will have something to say. With that, thank you for your time. The meeting is adjourned.