▶ 0:15:46Down to 60 saturday afternoon. >> 59 at dupont circle in D.C., 60 one in germantown. 62 and sunny in annandale. >> you are listening to
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▶ 0:49:10Chair Wicker: Hearing is in order. We had a productive classified session, and now we will begin the public portion of this hearing. I welcome back secretary hegseth, general caine, and the acting control Mr. j. Hurst. My next remarks will be no surprise for those that watch our hearings, but for new viewers, I reiterate some context from our remarks.
▶ 0:49:39Chair Wicker: I have said this at almost every hearing, we live in the most dangerous security environment since world war ii. Every uniformed officer who has come before this committee has agreed with that statement. First and foremost, we are locked into competition with xi jinping and the chinese communist party.
▶ 0:49:59Chair Wicker: The competition is high-stakes, and it is about whether this will be an american lead century or a century defined by authoritarian autocratic regimes that care little for the needs of their citizens or those in neighboring countries. The chinese communist party has accelerated its historic military buildup in the predatory economic practices against americans and countries the world over.
▶ 0:50:29Chair Wicker: Xi jinping leads not only china but also aggressors. This growing alliance cannot be denied. It includes china, russia, iran, north korea. United around this goal. To oppose america's interests in the interests of other like-minded democratic countries across the globe. Vladimir putin's war of choice in ukraine has now entered its fifth year.
▶ 0:50:56Chair Wicker: Putin's objectives, we hear echoes of the imperialistic ambitions of world war ii possibly aggressors, including adolf hitler. Vladimir putin has suffered 1.2 million casualties and failed miserably in his military objectives. He has transformed russia's economy into one fueled by war, raising the prospect of an even more aggressive moscow for the foreseeable future.
▶ 0:51:26Chair Wicker: Most of iran's leaders are now deceased. But they and those who survive them have consistently sought violence against america, israel, our gulf allies, and the iranian people. We saw this during the october 7 massacre, during their continued support for hezbollah and hamas, and in their desire to engage in nuclear blackmail.
▶ 0:51:55Chair Wicker: He runs ayatollahs have consistently represented a threat to american interests -- the wrong's ayatollahs have consistently represented a threat to american interests. Kim jong-un has joined russia's word to aggression, and they threaten south korea, japan and the U.S. ties have never been closer among these four dictators, among these four dictatorships. They support each other's aggressive endeavors. They prop each other up financially.
▶ 0:52:23Chair Wicker: And they schemed to undermine america's objectives. We should expect them to continue this behavior. This context plays out a quest every dimension of national power, the economy, technology, diplomacy, and war. Today we are here to talk about the military dimension of this competition. These regimes have regularly tried to take force -- take by force what they cannot secure through the political process.
▶ 0:52:50Chair Wicker: For that reason, we must be ready to deter conflicts and, if necessary, to win them. President trump has used the U.S. military appropriately and effectively for american interests. He has viewed our adversaries as a united block and has taken action in light of that reality.
▶ 0:53:14Chair Wicker: In operation absolute resolve, associated state, the president removed an aspiring dictator off the board and set up venezuela for a future aligned with democratic interests. Operation midnight hammer, he sought to eliminate the ayatollahs nuclear program. When the ayatollah chose to double down, the president launched operation epic fury.
▶ 0:53:40Chair Wicker: That mission, he has worked to remove the regime's conventional military capabilities and force it back to the table for a permanent solution. While we all mourn the tragic loss of the 14 service members who have lost their lives in this conflict, we do so knowing more will suffer without a nuclear iran.
▶ 0:54:03Chair Wicker: This is part of a peace through strength strategy, and in this approach we seek first to avoid war and take military action when necessary to achieve U.S. interests. And so, Mr. secretary, I am pleased that you are here testifying today in support of president trump's historic $1.5 trillion defense budget request. That amount will go a long way toward rebuilding our military capabilities for a generation.
▶ 0:54:30Chair Wicker: I should say upfront that this may be a long hearing, there is much to discuss. This $1.5 trillion request is chock-full of important programs and initiatives that are absolutely necessary to secure american interests in the 21st century. I think this funding underpins and accentuates three comparative advantage is united states possesses over the axis of aggressors.
▶ 0:54:56Chair Wicker: The first comparative advantage america enjoys over adversaries as we have the best innovation and industry in the world. So I hope our witnesses today will cover the progress we have made in just the past year rebuilding the american arsenal. Last year, our reconciliation bill, combined with bipartisan appropriation bills, achieved about $1 trillion defense budget. This year's request would represent a near 50% increase.
▶ 0:55:30Chair Wicker: Every penny of it should be moneypayments on crucial transformational capabilities such as drone warfare, low-cost initiatives, and missile defense . Last year, congress and the executive branch achieved historic acquisition reforms. Consequently, we are well-positioned to make huge gains on efficiency this year and in the years to come.
▶ 0:55:59Chair Wicker: Making it much more flexible and a more timely process. I look forward to discussing how we might accelerate implementation of these actions. In particular, I would like to see the pentagon do more this year to drive competition in the defense industrial base. Competition absolutely drives better outcomes for our service members and taxpayers.
▶ 0:56:26Chair Wicker: Of course, our people of -- are the final comparative advantage we have over our adversaries. We have enjoyed significant improvements in recruitment and retention, but we need to solidify a merit based environment that fully cares for our personnel. I commend you, Mr. secretary, for your efforts over the past year to do just that. That task will never be finished, but we address it gladly and we salute the progress.
▶ 0:56:53Chair Wicker: We will always be striving to care for and equip american service members as much as possible. I look forward to more work between this committee and the department this coming year. With that, and turned to my friend and colleague, ranking member jack reed.
▶ 0:57:08Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman, secretary hegseth, general caine, Mr. hurst, welcome. I want to show my appreciation for our military service members . We owe them our deepest gratitude. Mr. secretary, this does your first public appearance before this committee in nearly a year.
▶ 0:57:32Sen. Reed: Since your last public testimony, you and president trump have unwisely taken the united states to war with iran. He ordered an attack on venezuela. And have directed ongoing illegal campaign in the caribbean and pacific. At your direction, our forces have bombed yemen, somalia, iraq, syria, algeria, and ecuador.
▶ 0:57:59Sen. Reed: The united states, you have deployed thousands of troops to cities like washington, los angeles, chicago, and portland to police american citizens. And you have intervened to end the careers of dozens of military leaders without explanation. These actions will have significant and long-term consequences.
▶ 0:58:21Sen. Reed: Now you appear before us to ask for a $1.5 trillion budget, a 40 5% increase above last year. I must say, I am skeptical and subsequently request and demand intense scrutiny. 61 days ago, president trump unilaterally began the war in iran. He had no coherent strategy. He refused to make the case to the american people or consult congress.
▶ 0:58:51Sen. Reed: He failed to prevent any evidence -- present any evidence of an immediate threat. And he ignored the advice of military and intelligence experts in war -- and warnings of consequences. Today our nation is in the worst strategic position, the strait of hormuz was opened, now it is closed. 13 service members have tragically lost their lives, and more than 400 have been wounded.
▶ 0:59:15Sen. Reed: We have lost dozens of aircraft, sustained significant damage to our bases in the area, and spending an alarming amount of missile inventory. Morale across the force, especially among units and vessels like the uss gerald r. Ford aircraft carrier have suffered. Gasoline and fertilizer prices around the world have surged.
▶ 0:59:41Sen. Reed: American families are bearing the cost of a war they wanted nothing to do with and have gained nothing from. Yet, secretary hegseth, you declared victory month ago. April eight, you said, operation epic fury was a historic and overwhelming victory by any measure, epic fury decimated iran's military and rendered its combat forces ineffective for years to come.
▶ 1:00:08Sen. Reed: Let me be clear, technically, the united states military performance against iran has been remarkable, and I salute the service members who have executed this mission with skill and bravery. The problem with this sentence, Mr. secretary, as they are dangerously exaggerated. Iran's hardline regime remains in place. It still retains stockpiles of enriched uranium. In the nuclear program remains viable.
▶ 1:00:36Sen. Reed: Iran's military has enough combat effectiveness to keep the conflict at an impasse. It's missiles and drones remain a far greater threat than you have acknowledged. And the regime has demonstrated it can effectively controlled the strait of hormuz. Mr. secretary, I am concerned you have been telling the president what he wants to hear instead of what he needs to hear.
▶ 1:01:02Sen. Reed: Old assurances of success are a disservice of both the commander-in-chief and the troops who risked their lives based on it. Our military has performed heroically, but military force without a strong strategy is a path to long-term defeat. I would like to know what options you are considering now given the cost of this war and the stalemate president trump has put us in. More broadly, Mr.
▶ 1:01:26Sen. Reed: Secretary, too often you have made dangerous statements that are counterproductive to the mission. You posted about "no stupid rules of engagement" days after hundreds of iranian schoolgirls were tragically killed in a missile strike. You have made troubling statements about showing no mercy and orders that would constitute war crimes.
▶ 1:01:53Sen. Reed: As importantly, while our men and women are fighting and dying overseas, you have focused unduly on your own personal agenda. In the past two months alone, you have taken it upon yourself to overhaul the chaplin hall, cancel flu vaccine requirements, repeal firearm restrictions on military post, and bar service members from attending certain universities.
▶ 1:02:17Sen. Reed: Just this week, you brought former kid rock -- performer kid rock to an army base to go for a joy ride on an apache helicopter after dismissing an earlier investigation into the pilots who recklessly chose to hover above his home. That runs directly counter to the chain of command and maintaining good order.
▶ 1:02:39Sen. Reed: Most disturbingly, during your tenure, you fired dozens of our military leaders and personal interviewed -- intervened to block the promotions of many others. That is a betrayal of a merit-based system that forms the foundation of our military. You are hollowing out the military from experience and the highest performing senior officers while making young officers wonder if they should continue to serve.
▶ 1:03:05Sen. Reed: My colleagues and I have heard from countless service members throughout the ranks, many of whom will be watching right now who are confused and disturbed by your actions. Hopefully you can explain them today. Additionally, this committee expects a full update on operation southern sphere. This ongoing campaign against suspected drug trafficking boats has resulted in nearly 200 fatalities.
▶ 1:03:32Sen. Reed: The administration has failed to appoint a long-term objective for the mission or provide any evidence of reduced drug flows into the united states. I would ask for a credible answer to this most fundamental question, what is the operation actually meant to accomplish? Mr. secretary, you here to promote the president's $1.5 trillion defense budget.
▶ 1:03:57Sen. Reed: While this budget provides funding to necessary programs, including shipbuilding and drone manufacturing, many other critical programs like barracks repair and aircraft procurement with rely on the passage of the party line reconciliation bill. Further, this budget cuts research and development, provides no funding for ukraine, and includes no funding for losses incurred from the iran war. Yesterday, Mr.
▶ 1:04:26Sen. Reed: Hurst testified that operation epic fury has cost 25 billion dollars. If nothing else, that helped clarify that we certainly do not need a supplemental anywhere near $100 billion, much less $200 billion. And this record-breaking budget, there's no pay adjustments for the civilian workforce, and with inflation, that is a pay cut.
▶ 1:04:50Sen. Reed: After a year of doge layoffs and a hiring freeze, this is an insult to the 800,000 men and women who support our war fighters every day. I cannot imagine a faster way to distract from our abilities to deter our adversaries. Ultimately, I believe you are causing lasting harm to the country.
▶ 1:05:15Sen. Reed: Like many members of this committee, I had the opportunity and privilege to serve in the military. And every officer knows they are duty-bound to give their best professional advice, even if it is not what their superiors want to hear. Because when leaders speak on us -- when leaders do not speak honestly, people die or missions fail. The american people trust in our military for 250 years, and you are dismantling it in a fraction of that time.
▶ 1:05:48Sen. Reed: It can take generations to rebuild. Mr. secretary, I hope you will take a step forward today toward rebuilding the trust that has been lost. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:05:59Chair Wicker: Mr. secretary, you are now recognized for your opening statement, sir.
▶ 1:06:04Sec. Hegseth: Mr. chairman, ranking member reed, senators, thank you for the opportunity to testify in support of president trump's historic, as you said, Mr. chairman, $1.5 trillion fiscal year 2027 budget for the department of war.
▶ 1:06:22Sec. Hegseth: The president's budget request reflects the urgency of the moment, addressing both the deferment of long-standing problems, as well as positioning our forces for the current and future fights. I am honored to appear alongside general dan caine, and jay hurst, rt chief financial hospitaler -- and j. Hurst. I think the committee in congress for securing the investments needed for a stronger, prouder, and more secure military.
▶ 1:06:52Sec. Hegseth: We focus on acquisitions, your focus on efficiency are a reflection in our department that is in this, as well, and in this budget. A nation's ability to build, innovate, and support the critical needs of its war fighters at speed and at scale is the foundation upon which its deterrence and survival rests.
▶ 1:07:12Sec. Hegseth: However, upon taking office on january 20, 2025, president trump inherited a defense industrial base that was hollowed out by years of america last policies, resulting in a diminished capacity to project strength. Under the previous administration, we were off shoring, outsourcing cost overruns and degraded capabilities.
▶ 1:07:35Sec. Hegseth: But under the leadership of president trump, our builder in chief, we are reversing the systemic decay and putting our defense industrial base back on a wartime footing. Urgency informs everything we do. We are rebuilding a military that the american people can be proud of, one that instills nothing less than unrelenting fear in our adversaries and inspires historic morale and recruiting in its ranks. We fight to win in every scenario.
▶ 1:08:05Sec. Hegseth: The $1.5 trillion budget put forward by the president will build upon a previously $1 trillion fy 26 top line and will continue to reverse the four years of underinvestment and mismanagement of the biden administration. $1.5 trillion budget will ensure that the united states continues to maintain the world's most powerful and capable military as we grapple with a complex threat environment across multiple theaters.
▶ 1:08:32Sec. Hegseth: Not to mention, the budget also includes a historic troop pay increase, 7% for junior enlisted, and the budget eliminates all poor or failing barracks. Quality of life for our troops is front and center in this budget.
▶ 1:08:49Sec. Hegseth: By supercharging our defense industrial capacity and transforming how the department does business, we are restoring american commercial dominance at a pace unseen in generations, transforming the defense industrial base from the broken slow-moving systems of the past. We have flipped the pentagon acquisition process from a bureaucratic model to a business model.
▶ 1:09:13Sec. Hegseth: Decisively moving from an acquisitions environment paralyzed by bureaucratic red tape into an outcomes driven organization focused on delivering the most for taxpayer dollars. Over the past year, through historic multiyear procurement agreements that this committee support -- supported, we cut smart business deals, sent unambiguous demand signals to industry to build more and build faster.
▶ 1:09:40Sec. Hegseth: The result has been a surge, a revitalization, of our great american factories, and a massive reinvestment in the skilled american workers who serve as the industrial muscle behind that. [interruptions] [yelling in room]
▶ 1:10:08Chair Wicker: Further interruptions at our hearing will be treated in like matter. We appreciate the first amendment rights of americans to express themselves, but disruption of this hearing will not be tolerated. Mr. secretary, you may continue.
▶ 1:10:27Sec. Hegseth: I will briefly provide some concrete, high-level metrics of what we have accomplished over the past few months. These are announced new facilities and investments to support american war fighters. The department has helped stimulate more than 200 50 private investment deals and 30 nine states, 180 cities, and 150 companies, worth more than $50 billion.
▶ 1:10:50Sec. Hegseth: It has resulted in 280 new or expanded facilities, more than 18 million new square feet of american manufacturing, and more than 70,000 new jobs. These 50 billion in investments and new plans, new assembly lines, and new factories are private investments, not taxpayer dollars. By completely transforming our department's business model, american companies are investing in america, with their own dollars.
▶ 1:11:20Sec. Hegseth: A historic demonstration of american manufacturing and defense revitalization. All with their money, not uncle sam's. This has never been done before and is long overdue, from a bureaucratic model to a business model. These investments equal great things for america, for american families, and american workers, to ensure that our war fighters have everything they need, all american made.
▶ 1:11:45Sec. Hegseth: Together with the help of the policy updates in appropriations passed by congress, president trump's war department has begun to turn the lights back on in our manufacturing towns across this country, forging a lethal arsenal of freedom. Every policy we pursue, every budgetary item we request serves to ensure this department remains laser focused on increasingly valid and survivability from the front lines to the factory floor. This is a historic budget, as you said, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:12:15Sec. Hegseth: This is a fiscally responsible budget. And this is a war fighting budget. Speaking of war fighting, the topic of iran, I am sure, we'll come up often today, which I welcome. I look forward to sharing the incredible success of our military effort, achieved in a matter of weeks. President trump has the courage, has had, unlike other presidents, to ensure that iran never gets a nuclear weapon and that their nuclear blackmail never succeeds.
▶ 1:12:46Sec. Hegseth: We had the best negotiator in the world driving a great deal. Unfortunately, as I said yesterday, I will say it again today, the biggest adversary we face at this point are the reckless naysayers and defeatist words of congressional democrats and some republicans.
▶ 1:13:06Sec. Hegseth: Defeatists from the cheap seats who two months in seek to undermine the incredible efforts that have been undertaken and the historic nature of taking on a 47-year threat with the courage no other president has had, to great success and great opportunity for preventing iran from having a nuclear weapon. Despite this, under president trump we are restoring the unbreakable might of american manufacturing.
▶ 1:13:32Sec. Hegseth: We are providing for our war fighters and putting the people and interests of this country first. May almighty god continue to watch over our troops wherever they are, and may we honor the legacy of those brave americans that we have lost. This is our sacred mission, and this is what we continue to execute on. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:13:54Chair Wicker: Thank you for that statement. General caine, you are recognized.
▶ 1:13:59Gen. Caine: Thank you, ranking member, chair, senators, and the staff. I'm honored to be here along honorable pete hegseth and honorable j. Hurst to testify on the fiscal 2027 budget. I am grateful for the opportunity to testify today and thankful for your continued partnership in support of our war fighters defending the homeland and our interests around the world.
▶ 1:14:26Gen. Caine: It is a privilege to speak with you today about the foundation of america's strength that 2.8 million members of our joint force, and I am continually inspired by the soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, guardians, coast guardsmen, and civilians standing the watch for the nation, supported always by their families. They could have chosen a much easier path, any other path, but they volunteered for a life of purpose and passion in service.
▶ 1:14:58Gen. Caine: Every single day, they rise to meet the nation's challenge, challenges. From combat operations to critical support roles, with the courage, tenacity, and grit that keeps our nation strong and secure. I would also like to express my deep gratitude for the 39 members of the joint force who have passed and training during my time as chairman.
▶ 1:15:27Gen. Caine: Specifically highlight the 14 who have passed and operation epic fury. The secretary and I are deeply grateful for each of them and their families, and their names will never be forgotten. As the chairman, my duty is to ensure our civilian leadership has a comprehensive range of military options and the associated risks required to make the nation's hardest and most complex decisions.
▶ 1:15:55Gen. Caine: I/o the president, the secretary, and the congress the truth at every turn, and my blueprint for this role has always been that of general george c marshall, his firm commitment to civilian control and nonpartisan -- in a nonpartisan military remains my constant standard. And I strive to emulate his candor, delivering the facts. Leaders need to hear it, not always what they want to hear.
▶ 1:16:23Gen. Caine: And once a decision is made, executing it with the absolute dedication while keeping the joint force precisely where it should be. That is the demand of our profession. As I said before you today representing our incredible joint force, I want to emphasize my commitment to this committee and to the congress.
▶ 1:16:41Gen. Caine: I will always follow general marshall steadfast example by providing clear and candid nonpartisan military advice, working together to ensure the military remains squarely focused on one thing, being prepared to deter and, if called upon, fight and win our nation's war. And that is our mission.
▶ 1:17:04Gen. Caine: America's joint forces operational at its core, purpose built for the realities in the complex world, more organized, trained, and equipped to execute the most demanding missions across the globe with unrivaled precision. And over the past year, our war fighters have consistently demonstrated exactly what it means to be the most capable and most professional force on earth.
▶ 1:17:30Gen. Caine: Our shared goal is to ensure the joint force remains the strategic -- sustains the strategic initiative an advantage and ability to project power to respond to the global challenges on our nation cost terms.
▶ 1:17:48Gen. Caine: Operation rough rider, midnight hammer, southern sphere, absolute resolve, and epic fury, the joint force executed globally integrated missions alongside our interagency and international partners. Once our leaders made a decision, our forces demonstrated the unmatched ability to seamlessly synchronize actions and activities from the seabed to lunar space.
▶ 1:18:14Gen. Caine: We are able to accomplish these complex things that we are asked to do because we draw from the deep reservoir of training, professionalism, and commitment. Our operational temper is high, but we are designed to sustain it, rebuilding readiness every day, training professionals every day, and sharpening our edge every day. I am incredibly proud of this joint force team and the leaders at every echelon of command.
▶ 1:18:43Gen. Caine: As the chairman said, we are living in a complex environment. Today I look forward to discussing how we can sustain america's military advantage, and I know this committee recognizes the challenges and the urgency in the environment we face. We are operating in delicate and dangerous times. Risk is scaling, and the complexity of the modern battlefield demands america's constant adaptation, innovation, and partnership with congress.
▶ 1:19:14Gen. Caine: As a joint force, we are up to the challenge. We are built for this environment. Our continued success is not guaranteed by our past achievements. We must continue to be forward-looking and innovate together with congress, to draw up the pace of change and maintain our superiority requires timely, predictable, and sustained investment.
▶ 1:19:38Gen. Caine: And the resources we are going to discuss today are critical to modernizing the joint force and insuring whatever threats might emerge, we are prepared to defeat them, to protect our interests, and defend the nation. This president's budget for 2027 supports the secretary and the department's goal of reinvigorating, recharging the defense industrial base and the national industrial base, enhancing our readiness and securing our military advantage.
▶ 1:20:09Gen. Caine: To ensure that our war fighters are properly armed, globally integrated, and ready while always taking care of our people. And that is what truly sets america's joint force apart from each other. Especially the 1.8 million members, enlisted members, of our joint force. It is them, the character, confidence of that force that transforms our capabilities into a decisive advantage.
▶ 1:20:38Gen. Caine: An our enlisted force is represented today by the senior enlisted advisor to the chairman , united states navy fleet master chief david isom sitting behind me, a teammate who I greatly appreciate and many of you on this committee know from his time in the indo pacific.
▶ 1:20:56Gen. Caine: While we face dynamic and dangerous times, I have absolute trust and confidence in the extraordinary men and women within our joint force, who every day execute the missions we ask them to quietly and with position. And coupled with the american spirit to outthink, outcompete, and relentlessly innovate, we will maintain our decisive edge but doing so requires your continued partnership. We stand ready today to answer the nation's call.
▶ 1:21:28Gen. Caine: I humbly ask that as we are here today in this hearing, we remember those deployed service members who are out there right now doing our nation's work. And may we always forget -- always remember our fallen and never forget them or their families who continue to show us what courage looks like. Thank you for your enduring support, and I look forward to questions.
▶ 1:21:50Chair Wicker: Thank you very much, general. We appreciate your service. Let's jump right in. Secretary hegseth, let's talk about the money from reconciliation, one $.0 trillion last year. There have been some complaints about the speed, but not everything we hear is actually accurate. How much of the $154 billion from reconciliation has the pentagon put on contract?
▶ 1:22:18Sec. Hegseth: My understanding, Mr. chairman -- first, I would like to say, what an important vehicle reconciliation was for us and how to give us a chance coming out of fy 2025 to advance the president's priorities, whether it was drones, golden dawn, shipbuilding, it was a critical building for us. The number you are looking for is about $26 billion right now, but we have the floodgates about to open.
▶ 1:22:43Chair Wicker: Ok. Unfortunately, you're starting a bit late, through no fault of your own, because the money was not sent timely by the office of management and budget to the department until last month. That is over and done with but should be mentioned. Mr. secretary, where are we on the obligation rates as far as a normal appropriation bill? Are we a little behind, had come or what?
▶ 1:23:12Sec. Hegseth: I would say probably a little bit behind as it pertains to reconciliation. That part of that is, as you know, this is a new funding vehicle for the department. Two-fold, one, you have to do it right and in a fiscally responsible way, in conjunction with congress to make sure we meet congressional intent. But also that we have been using it to energize our ability to exercise new pathways, to get problems in different and more dynamic ways so we are not stuck in bureaucracy. Yes, there's been some delays.
▶ 1:23:44Sec. Hegseth: Ultimately, I think it is all goodness on the other side, given the new nature of this funding.
▶ 1:23:49Chair Wicker: Right, yes, and things have been done differently, and we appreciate that. But Mr. secretary, will -- will you commit to us that you will keep the committee informed frequently of your efforts to get all of this money out the door so our industrial base can start building, as you have described in this flexibility we provided them?
▶ 1:24:12Sec. Hegseth: Absolutely.
▶ 1:24:13Chair Wicker: And you mentioned a few things in reconciliation that you think have been game changers. I don't think we have talked enough about some of the game changers. For years, we failed to take action on rebuilding america's drone industrial base. And critical mineral supply chains.
▶ 1:24:39Chair Wicker: After last reconciliation bill and the national defense authorization, we are in a very different position on drones and critical mineral supply chains come are we not?
▶ 1:24:51Sec. Hegseth: Very much so. Mineral supply chains, drones, we went to an autonomous warfare group, looking at the concept of sub unified command. Looking at $54 billion in the fy 2027 budget dedicated to drone dominance. Ua yes, counter ua us, entering we can scale not just exquisite drums but also those proliferated on the battlefield today. We need to be ahead.
▶ 1:25:16Chair Wicker: Are there any other initiatives from last year's bill you want to point out?
▶ 1:25:23Sec. Hegseth: No, the investment in golden dome for america, ability to get running on that and we are on the schedule to davila -- to deliver capabilities inside this administration. Minerals, though supply chains. The office of strategic capital, its ability to loan gives 10x of new entrants to the department. The running mood to invest in this capabilities, we are approved for that.
▶ 1:25:52Chair Wicker: Briefly, general caine, no question that vladimir putin's russia is taking serious action to undermine our efforts for success in iran. Any question about that?
▶ 1:26:04Gen. Caine: Senator, I think there's actions and activities that are mindful of the hearing room we are in, but there is difference in action.
▶ 1:26:15Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Senator reed.
▶ 1:26:19Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Mr. secretary, recent -- you recently fired one of the most distinguished and decorated officers of this generation. General george's nomination came before us, and we reviewed it thoroughly and concurred. Why did you fire general george?
▶ 1:26:45Sec. Hegseth: Well, as I did then and I will say now, I think general george for his service. And out of respect to him and other officers, we never talk about the nature of why certain officers are asked to step down. But we all serve at the pleasure of the president. Ultimately, my view coming into this department, as I stated in my confirmation hearing, was to change the culture of the department.
▶ 1:27:11Sec. Hegseth: It is ultimately challenging to change the culture of a department with the same people who were a part of her in that department. So I have made many changes with general officers. We will continue to make changes as necessary with the general officers, and they will be in keeping with the trajectory of where we want to take the department. But it does not take away from the service of those, and I think you will know that every officer that has been asked to leave has been treated with respect.
▶ 1:27:38Sen. Reed: Interesting. Of the two dozen officers you have fired for reasons unrelated to performance, since you have not indicated any cause, 60% are black or female. The president direct you to single out female and black officers to be dismissed?
▶ 1:28:01Sec. Hegseth: Senator, of course not. And as we have emphasized that this department from the beginning, the only metric is merit. Members on this committee and the previous leadership of this department were focused on heightening social engineering, race, and gender in ways we think were unhealthy for the department, focusing on those things, making decisions based on those things. In president trump's war department, we make decisions based on only one thing, merit.
▶ 1:28:30Sec. Hegseth: And that is how we have made decisions going forward. How we made them and how we will continue.
▶ 1:28:36Rep. Reed: So to general george, what did he fail in terms of his lack of merit to continue to serve?
▶ 1:28:44Sec. Hegseth: As I said, I do not talk about the nature of dismissal. Ultimately, we wanted to take the department in a particular direction. Certain services in a particular direction. We want leadership running as fast in that direction as possible. In some cases, we make changes accordingly but did so out of respect of those officers.
▶ 1:29:02Sen. Reed: I think that direction from your behavior is an intense interest in christianity, in nationalism, and in not recognizing the talent of women and nonwhite gentlemen. And that is the wrong direction.
▶ 1:29:24Sec. Hegseth: I do not know what you are insinuating, senator, but I am not ashamed of my faith in jesus christ.
▶ 1:29:30Sen. Reed: You should not be.
▶ 1:29:32Sec. Hegseth: If you want to shame before it, go ahead.
▶ 1:29:34Sen. Reed: I am not shaming you, but are you critical of other faiths?
▶ 1:29:39Sec. Hegseth: I am a believer, quite open for that, and our department allows for a multitude of faiths. I do not know what you're suggesting. I have heard the likes of things that people like you suggest. I know you try to smear my character, and I will not get into it.
▶ 1:29:56Sen. Reed: I am sorry, Mr. secretary, but broadcasting on a national religious broadcast stressing the need for more christianity in forces does not seem like a neutral position in which you tolerate others. Let me move on. The strategic aspects of this operation in iran, the president declared that we are going to destroy their missiles in ways that brings them to the ground.
▶ 1:30:28Sen. Reed: After more than 13,000 strikes, and classified, concludes iran contain more than 40% of the drone and 60% of the ballistic missile launchers, compared to prewar levels. That is one objective. The second objective was regime change. So the very proud people of iran -- we will finish, take over your government.
▶ 1:30:59Sen. Reed: That has not succeeded. And then, one of his other things is the onset, the president said we will ensure iran does not obtain a nuclear weapon. Military operations have not achieved that goal yet.
▶ 1:31:14Sen. Reed: It also seems to indicate that his pronouncements about operation midnight hammer, obliterating the nuclear policy and structure of the iranians, is fall spirit so you have not achieved any of the objectives yet, that the president mentioned.
▶ 1:31:34Sec. Hegseth: In this setting, I will not talk about the nature of metrics which are classified, as you know, senator. But I can say, looking at the objectives we set out to achieve from the beginning, some of what you laid out, our military objectives have been stunningly effective. Take for example their defense industrial base. They are completely incapable at scale, at any level of reconstituting the capabilities you referred to, which is a devastating result for any country.
▶ 1:32:03Sec. Hegseth: Especially one whose ambitions are as wide as a ron's. So we have put the president in a very strong position to ensure iran never gets a nuclear weapon. That is the take away under every aspect of this. For 47 years, iran has tried to blackmail his way to a nuclear weapon. There were bad deals in the previous administration. President trump was going to do something about it and not allow their conventional missile shield, the north korea strategy -- to be clear, that is what iran was pursuing.
▶ 1:32:34Sec. Hegseth: Hiding their nuclear ambitions, revealing them over time, the building a conventional shield of missiles so powerful that no country would challenge them for fear of what would happen if they unleashed that arsenal. After the 12 they were at midnight hammer, which did obliterate their sites, president trump saw an opportunity because their ambitions continued to ensure that umbrella of nuclear blackmail did not allow them to get to a nuclear weapon. And to the world a safer because of his bold and historic choice.
▶ 1:33:05Sen. Reed: Mr. secretary, I think that is rhetorical but not factual. Thank you. >> thank you, senator reed. Mr. secretary, Mr. hurst, general caine, welcome. Over the last several months, I have worked closely with some of the new direct reporting program managers, and I have been encouraged by how they are approaching the department's most complex acquisition systems .
▶ 1:33:35Sen. Reed: General weitz pulled forward the next milestone for this internal program by at least six months. Another general has completed the initial blueprint for the golden dome architecture and is beginning to build it out. For years, this committee has known that we must improve our ability to defend our homeland against a wide variety of threats. And we finally have a partner with the full backing of the department to lead the charge. Mr.
▶ 1:34:04Sen. Reed: Secretary, what is the advantage of this new type of program management structure?
▶ 1:34:10Sec. Hegseth: Thank you for the question, senator. It is acquisition authority, technical authority, contracting authority, consolidating decision-making in one place. Under a highly screened, highly capable general, general white and the other general, who know the terrain extremely well and understand what mistakes have been made in past programs of that magnitude and are given the authority to cut through the red tape. That is the key. Success or failure lands with them and they know it.
▶ 1:34:41Sec. Hegseth: As a result, they are incentivized to ensure that program, then given every dollar and authority needed to move it as quickly as possible. Whether it is sentinel, 747, golden dome, these critical strategic assets, the direct report construct, along with deputy secretary feinberg, who is a national treasure and is changing the way we do business in this department, giving us a chance to ensure these critical systems are delivered.
▶ 1:35:08Sen. Fischer: Thank you. General caine, can you give us your thoughts on why the golden dome received -- what they must receive that requested 17 million dollars in funding for the fiscal year 2027?
▶ 1:35:23Gen. Caine: As you know, it is an essential part of our homeland security layer of defense. As they begin to do the work you are asking about and helping to advance the insurance around that down payment, charging the defense industrial base with those capital allocations will allow them to get after it much quicker. We appreciate the help.
▶ 1:35:49Sen. Fischer: And if there is a delay in that funding?
▶ 1:35:52Gen. Caine: Hopefully there will not be, senator. As a leader on that account 24 /7, three 65, we will come back to congress to help that constraint get removed from the production system, and that is really what we are asking these leaders to do, to be able to get past the constraints.
▶ 1:36:18Sen. Fischer: Thank you. Secretary hegseth, I agree with your statement on nuclear deterrence, when you said nothing else matters if we do not get this right, so we will. We need a modernized nuclear triad and architecture that can credibly deter multiple adversaries, instead of an insufficient nuclear structure based on fundamentally flawed assumptions made 16 years ago.
▶ 1:36:47Sen. Fischer: Our presidents must have a diverse set of options so they can effectively manage more complex nuclear escalation dynamics. Mr. secretary, how does this budget request achieve those objectives?
▶ 1:37:04Sec. Hegseth: Thank you for your leadership on this issue for a very long time. First and foremost, it invests in it. $71 billion in our nuclear triad and nc3, understanding that if you get that wrong, you get everything else wrong. Frankly, it is why the iran effort is so important. Imagine what the situation in the region would look like if iran also wielded a nuclear weapon and the limits it would put on our capabilities in those situations.
▶ 1:37:33Sec. Hegseth: Our adversaries have to deal with that delimiter because the strength of our nuclear triad. The $71 billion investment, the domes over top of it to move those systems left, as you acknowledged, it has just been a priority since we came into the building and we are funding it accordingly.
▶ 1:37:50Sen. Fischer: Chairman kaine, secretary hegseth, whoever would like to answer this, should our nuclear command control and communications systems be the -- given the same level of priority as congress considers the department's budget request, as our triad?
▶ 1:38:16Sec. Hegseth: I think so, but I defer to the chairman.
▶ 1:38:19Gen. Caine: Yes, ma'am. We have to be able to see to anything, so yes.
▶ 1:38:25Sen. Fischer: Thank you. Senator shaheen, you are recognized.
▶ 1:38:28Sen. Shaheen: Thank you, madam chair. Secretary hegseth, congress enacted the $400 million to provide security assistance to ukraine in january. The committee received a notification just yesterday confirming only that the funding would go toward ukraine, contained no details about the type of equipment, no delivery timelines, nothing that is typically included in these notifications.
▶ 1:38:54Sen. Shaheen: When asked about the delay in funding, the committee was told that a spin plan was being developed. But we have received nothing. So when can we expect the full spend planned for this appropriation? And madam chair, if this is not already part of the record for the committee, can I enter it the record?
▶ 1:39:18Sec. Hegseth: We acknowledge and are executing on the european capacity building amount of $400 million that you refer to. Undersecretary colby has done a great job looking at options and worked very closely with our european commander. So his requests are what makes the most sense and will inform what ultimately is invested.
▶ 1:39:43Sen. Shaheen: This notification says they coordinated only spent plan in march, but general franco fitch told this committee on april 16 he had not been asked to review any spend plan and this appropriation. So, general caine, have you received at the spend plan for funds in ukraine, and have you asked ucom command for concurrence?
▶ 1:40:08Gen. Caine: I do not believe so, but I will find out, senator, and get back to you by the end of the day.
▶ 1:40:14Sen. Shaheen: Thank you. Yesterday, Mr. hurst, you told the house that you needed to seek legal review to appropriate the funds as congress intended. So can you share with us what the nature of that legal review is? Seems to me the law was pretty clear, I saw it, was part of the defense appropriations bill that we passed in january. And as you know, violating congressional intent on appropriating funds is a violation of the impound and control act.
▶ 1:40:44Sen. Shaheen: So what is the nature of the legal review you have to get?
▶ 1:40:50Gen. Hurst: Thank you for the question. We are looking to see if we can use the funds in the same manner as usai. Council provides a legal opinion on how to support that.
▶ 1:41:01Sen. Shaheen: Can you share with this committee what that legal opinion is?
▶ 1:41:05Gen. Hurst: Ma'am, I do not have a copy of that, but we can ask the office to supply it to you.
▶ 1:41:11Sen. Shaheen: Madam chair, can we ask that that legal opinion is shared with the committee? Officially. Thank you. Also, I don't know who can answer this, but it says that consistent with the president's priority to ship the financial burden of ukraine support to european partners, the united states will seek commensurate financial contributions via the
▶ 1:41:41Sen. Shaheen: Prioritized ukraine requirements list, or purl, from european partners on this program. So what is the justification for using purl when there's $400 million in appropriated funds?
▶ 1:41:57Sec. Hegseth: That is a reflection of the president's priority and belief that it is paid for by european partners and used as they see fit.
▶ 1:42:05Sen. Shaheen: But that was not the intent of congress in providing that $400 million. As I understand, the purl program, the europeans purchased those weapons from the united states, and they pay for them. But this appropriation was $400 million that congress expected to be provided to ukraine, not paid for by the europeans, but provided from the united states to support ukraine.
▶ 1:42:33Sen. Shaheen: So, again, I do not understand what the justification is for using purl when that is not the intent congress provided.
▶ 1:42:42Sec. Hegseth: We are following the intent of european capacity building. But at the same time recognizing that wherever purl can be utilized in europeans contribute to that fight, part of the burden sharing --
▶ 1:42:56Sen. Shaheen: But that was not congressional intent. That is what I am asking you, why you are using purl to do something congress intended to go directly to ukraine? Can you answer that? What was the legal opinion on this? Did you ask the attorneys if the $400 million could be used for the purl program?
▶ 1:43:19Gen. Hurst: Let's get back to you. We will take it to the record.
▶ 1:43:23Sen. Shaheen: And what portion of the funding committed under purl is being used to assist ukraine rather than restocking our own shells?
▶ 1:43:33Sec. Hegseth: That is up to europe. Ultimately, europe pays for any weapons we provide and can utilize them as they see fit, whether it is ukraine or otherwise.
▶ 1:43:45Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator shaheen. There have been a number of times when our witnesses have stated, both in closed hearing and up here, that they will get back to us, and we certainly hope that will happen very expeditiously. So thank you very much, and thank you, senator shaheen. Senator cotton.
▶ 1:44:03Sen. Cotton: Thank you for your appearance today. Mr. secretary, you provided us with a chart here entitled the arsenal of freedom, which includes a lot of sites you visit. My favorite one is down here in south arkansas, camden, where you and I had a chance to visit just a couple months ago, highlighting the great work that the people there are doing to help rebuild our arsenal of freedom.
▶ 1:44:30Sen. Cotton: Thank you, first off, for being there and for your kind words, e work of people of south arkansas. Isn't it fair to say that the more in iran, just like the ukraine war before it, still today, it has not caused any challenges with our munitions the way some of our democratic colleagues would say, but has exposed a decades-old problem of fragility in our defense industrial base before you and general caine took over and are
▶ 1:45:00Sen. Cotton: Trying to address right now?
▶ 1:45:01Sec. Hegseth: In many ways that is precisely what we're trying to address. We also have a situation where president trump we build our military in the first term. A lot of those munitions and capabilities were sent to ukraine under the previous administration, to the point when we ask our commanders all relook at plans, the answer is often that was sent to ukraine.
▶ 1:45:24Sec. Hegseth: The recognition of those two things, the president gave us a charge from day one to rebuild the arsenal of our freedom, to fast forward, not provide a little bit more of each thing about three x, four x the number of exquisite munitions we need, expenditures that we have seen under this administration's we can account for them and we can assure that other plans are to care of. On the munitions front, we are in good shape, but we need to accelerate.
▶ 1:45:50Sen. Cotton: An important point you make, we are not trying to fill a hole that was created by epic fury or support for ukraine, we are going to fill that and go beyond that for our needs in the future so we are never caught my room or last several years, these were present at munitions running short, is that right?
▶ 1:46:10Sec. Hegseth: Exactly right. The president has charged with filling it up to the tippy top, as he would say, remainder of this term and future presidents have all the munitions they need for any level of contingencies especially considering the dangerous world we live in.
▶ 1:46:27Sen. Cotton: I want to turn to operation epic fury, a smashing military success. Unfortunately, we have suffered casualties to include soldiers killed in the line of action. Obviously, our military takes the greatest steps possible to protect our troops whether an action or whether they are on bases in the region. Mr.
▶ 1:46:52Sen. Cotton: Secretary, can you explain the steps we have taken to minimize to the greatest extent we can the number of casualties we are taking in the middle east?
▶ 1:46:58Sec. Hegseth: First of all, every day we live to ensure we follow through on the legacy of those who gave everything. That is front and center for us. The chairman may want to weigh in. From the beginning of looking at the possibility of this contingency, setting the defense, insured admiral cooper and everyone throughout said, had every possible measure they could to ensure that our troops had protection was the top priority.
▶ 1:47:25Sec. Hegseth: Moving as if to the region, we integrated our air defenses with local gulf countries to ensure our shot doctrine was nationalized, their ballistic missiles or on drones, flowing in the most recent capabilities to ensure we can intercept drones, moving troops off the x.
▶ 1:47:44Sec. Hegseth: What people mostly don't know is that a massive effort was undertaken before this conflict to move as many humans off of targets to other places and maintain operational security about where they might be to minimize the space with which iran could hit. We always knew something getting through was a possibility, tragic possibility. I can assure you from our perspective that was priority number one as it was admiral cooper's to ensure fortification and missile defenses were right there when we went on offense if we had to.
▶ 1:48:13Sen. Cotton: General caine, anything to add?
▶ 1:48:17Gen. Caine: In addition to mourning those soldiers, after every tragic loss, commanders within our joint force go back and look at what was our plan, what lessons we can learn from this so that we protect and defend our soldiers, sailors, other members of the joint force the next time.
▶ 1:48:40Sen. Cotton: I know you do. I just wanted to give you the opportunity to speak to what you've done to try and prevent casualties and minimize them. One final question, I understand you been accused of lying to the president. Mr. hegseth, have you lied to the president about what is happening in iran or epic fury?
▶ 1:48:58Sec. Hegseth: I only told the truth to the president.
▶ 1:49:01Sen. Cotton: General caine have you lied to the president about operation epic fury?
▶ 1:49:05Gen. Caine: Never.
▶ 1:49:07Sen. Reed: Because you were accused of it, I wanted to give you a chance to answer on the record that of course you've always given the president an accurate record of what is happening.
▶ 1:49:15Chair Wicker: Senator gillibrand and then senator rounds.
▶ 1:49:21Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you for appearing before this committee and thank you for the closed session prior to this. I don't know if you fully appreciate how much the american people do not support this more. It is an unauthorized war. Normally when you come to congress, it's a way for the american people to be a part of that discussion. The american people, particularly in my state of new york, are upset for a lot of reasons.
▶ 1:49:46Sen. Gillibrand: First of all, there's more is costing so much money, over 25 billion dollars already, estimates a billion dollars a day, and they are feeling it every day at the gas pump with higher prices for both fuel, diesel, gasoline for their cars. They are also feeling it with higher grocery costs, and they are exhausted. They are truly exhausted.
▶ 1:50:09Sen. Gillibrand: On top of that, they have so many grave concerns about how this more is being prosecuted -- war is being prosecuted. They read in papers that 22 schools are hit. They read about a girl's school, hundreds being killed. We have a debate going on in this country about ai. A serious debate about ai.
▶ 1:50:37Sen. Gillibrand: I have not heard from you that you will not allow ai to make final targeting decisions even when nuclear weapons are being used. That is a huge issue we need to discuss. So I want to start from the top, secretary hegseth. Why do you continue to prosecute a war that the american people are not behind?
▶ 1:50:55Sec. Hegseth: First of all, I appreciate the opportunity for the closed session where we had it on surprisingly very different discussion then we have here with the cameras on.
▶ 1:51:05Sen. Gillibrand: Because my job is to represent new yorkers. I can tell you, when I talked to them, all across my state, they are furious. They expect me to explain to them why they are furious.
▶ 1:51:19Sec. Hegseth: When I talk to americans, especially the troops, they are grateful for a president that has the courage to take on this threat of what he seven years, what iran has done, targeting and killing americans, and will room into the world if iran's nuclear ambitions were actually achieved. The question I would ask to you and others is what is the cost of a nuclear armed iran? What is the cost to the american people --
▶ 1:51:42Sen. Gillibrand: That is a rhetorical question you're asking everyone. They don't want were coming to this show are. When you do decapitation operations, the likelihood is exchange in the united states. There is no evidence that we are safer because of this war. We don't have evidence that iran intended to imminently attack this country in any way, shape, or form. I disagree with the assessment that we were under threat.
▶ 1:52:07Sec. Hegseth: Do you not believe them when they say death to america?
▶ 1:52:11Sen. Gillibrand: Our adversaries use rhetoric all the time. What I'm concerned about is we are not safer. I would like to know why you have not sought the support of the american people? Three out of five americans are against this more today.
▶ 1:52:26Sec. Hegseth: I believe we have the support of the american people. We have briefed regularly what this mission looks like and why it is clearly important that we undertake it. I would remind you and this group that we are two months into an effort. Many congressional democrats want to declare defeat two months in. Erected how many years, afghanistan took how many years? They were nebulous mission that people went along with david this is different.
▶ 1:52:55Sec. Hegseth: This is defined mission set that we have had great success in pursuing against a determined enemy.
▶ 1:52:59Sen. Gillibrand: Mr. hegseth. You don't care if the american people are not supporting this more? =-- war?
▶ 1:53:09Sec. Hegseth: The american people are quite smart. They see through spin. They know a resume that says death to america, that six nuclear weapons. Did they lie about the range of their missiles?
▶ 1:53:21Sen. Gillibrand: How much more will he ask the american people to pay for this war? You want to billion dollars a day, $2 billion a day? You are asking for $200 billion more to fund this more.
▶ 1:53:35Sec. Hegseth: I don't know where you got that number from. I think you got it from the news. You should be careful what you read in the news.
▶ 1:53:42Sen. Gillibrand: Here are a few more. Let's talk about how you are prosecuting the war. What is your response to targeting that has resulted in the destruction of schools, hospitals, civilian places? Why did you cut by 90% the division that is supposed to help you, not target civilians, and do you know the impact of a strategic failure at a war when you have so many civilian casualties?
▶ 1:54:11Sen. Gillibrand: You may have technically completed a mission well but strategically is not meeting your goals because of the harms to civilians.
▶ 1:54:18Sec. Hegseth: No country, no military works harder at every echelon to ensure they protect civilian lives than the united states military. That is an ironclad commitment that we make no matter what systems we use.
▶ 1:54:31Sen. Gillibrand: Why did you cut the department by 90%?
▶ 1:54:34Chair Wicker: There will be on the rounds of questions. Senator rounds, you are recognized.
▶ 1:54:41Sen. Rounds: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you all for your service to our country. I will allow you to finish the answer a little bit with regard to the senator from new york. Does the united states military ever target a civilian center?
▶ 1:54:59Sec. Hegseth: Thank you, senator. Unlike our adversaries, unlike radical islamists, unlike those who target civilians are you civilians as shields, united states military never targets civilians and puts contracts in place to ensure that the maximum extent possible, we do not harm or hit civilians. Is war a difficult place with a lot of complexities? Absolutely right.
▶ 1:55:29Sec. Hegseth: No country and no department is more than our department.
▶ 1:55:30Sen. Rounds: Do you have all the resources necessary to ensure that every opportunity to eliminate that as a threat, in terms of that happening, do we still have the resources available in the department to make sure that we do the best we can never to hit a civilian target?
▶ 1:55:47Sec. Hegseth: Every resource is necessary at every echelon is available, legal, intel, otherwise to ensure we minimize at every extent possible civilian casualties. The suggestion was made that somehow ai might be used without a human in the loop which is a classic anthropic talking point which is half of what we talked about previously. There is a human in the loop on decisions that are made. The suggestion otherwise to suggest that somehow ai is running targeting operations.
▶ 1:56:16Sen. Rounds: Part of what we are also talking about is not just be engaged right now in terms of trying to eliminate the threat from iran, in terms of being a nuclear armed country, but we also have the fact that we have an ongoing principle with regard to a pacing threat with china.
▶ 1:56:40Sen. Rounds: The dual capable be 21 reader will be a capable part of our conventional and nuclear deterrence against china and russia. As you know, the army's program of record has plans to procure 100 b 21s but many national leaders including indopacom commanders are calling for a greater number of b 21's. The admiral testified last week that he would favor buying 200 of them.
▶ 1:57:11Sen. Rounds: Sec., chairman kaine, could you speak to the progress and the importance of the b 21 program, and if you agree with the growing sentiment that the U.S. needs to visit the b 21 program of record and assess the requirement for at least 200 to match the global threat. Could you speak to what the probability of that is?
▶ 1:57:34Sec. Hegseth: Thank you for the question. I appreciate the fact that you are listening to and hearing from combatant commanders because that is so we listen to as well. We are looking at the operational plans and what we required to deter and if necessary defeat assets like the b-21 or f-47 are critical to that. That is why we are funding them and increasing the funding. Where necessary, would increase the allocation.
▶ 1:57:58Sec. Hegseth: I think you see a budget that reflects the reality that we have to invest in more capabilities to include the b-21 which is ahead of schedule. We will be funding to the tune of $6 billion, will require a lot more over 100 in the future.
▶ 1:58:15Gen. Caine: Thank you for the question. Working through the jroc and the vice chiefs, I was stacked hands around the assessing of the requirement. We are glad to see b-21 on the flight path, no pun intended. Operational testing.
▶ 1:58:35Gen. Caine: On the specific numbers, the big picture strategic thing I want to say is, we want to make sure as we think through what is airpower of the future look like based on the evolving threat that we are staying well in front of it. I'm on board with assessing the numbers. I want to make sure we are buying ahead of the technology developing curve so that we give all of those young war fighters out there the capabilities that we need well into the future.
▶ 1:59:04Sen. Rounds: Any question at all that we will need more than 100 b-21s?
▶ 1:59:10Gen. Caine: Here is how I will look at it, senator. I want to look at the o plans we have right now to make sure that we allocate those numbers. I don't believe so but I do want to do the due diligence if you will allow me to look at that.
▶ 1:59:25Sen. Rounds: Appreciate the opportunity to visit with you, clarify what that number should look like in the future.
▶ 1:59:32Chair Wicker: Thank you.
▶ 1:59:36Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you for being here today. I want to talk about the cost of war. The cost of war includes caring for our veterans. We have had an estimate from Mr.
▶ 1:59:52Sen. Blumenthal: Hurst yesterday that the cost to date in dollars for this war has been $25 billion, which I believe is well below the actual cost based on everything that I have heard, everything available to us in various kinds of settings. I'm going to ask for a more accurate assessment. We also know that about 400 service members have been wounded as a result of this war.
▶ 2:00:23Sen. Blumenthal: When they retire, come home, their retirement pay will be docked dollar for dollar for every disability benefit dollar they receive. Secretary hegseth, I like your commitment that you will support the major richards star act. It will eliminate this wounded warrior tax. I am sure you are familiar with it.
▶ 2:00:53Sen. Blumenthal: Tens of thousands of servicemen and women now are reduced in their retirement pay literally for every dollar of disability benefits they receive.
▶ 2:01:03Sec. Hegseth: I appreciate your focus on this issue. You mention roughly 400 that have been injured. Thankfully, over 90% have returned to duty. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't have a residual challenge. We are tracking that at point of injury to ensure that it noted --
▶ 2:01:22Sen. Blumenthal: I like your commitment that you will support the major richards act.
▶ 2:01:26Sec. Hegseth: As I have said, we support the richard star act.
▶ 2:01:32Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you. On the issue of cost, Mr. hurst, does that 20 $5 billion estimate include all of the costs in terms of damage to our basis terms of damage to our basies, the need to replace planes, munitions, the cost of injuries to our servicemen and women?
▶ 2:02:00Mr. Hurst: For the facilities replacement cost, that is the hardest number. We don't know about the future construction of those bases.
▶ 2:02:11Sen. Blumenthal: You owe it to us. You are here asking for appropriations. I would like a more accurate estimate of what has been done that will require replacement and renovation, as well as the other costs.
▶ 2:02:31Sen. Blumenthal: I think $25 billion is probably less than half, maybe less than a quarter of the total cost of the war, which is the reason why the supplemental request is much higher. I think you owe it to the american people to give us the straight talk about what the costs have been. Mr. secretary, I know you have characterized this war as an astonishing military success, to use your words yesterday.
▶ 2:03:04Sen. Blumenthal: But the american people are not buying it. I know you feel the american people are seeing through the abstruse stuff that is thrown at them, but one point is irrefutable, which is america never succeeds in war unless the american people are behind it.
▶ 2:03:29Sen. Blumenthal: If what you are seeing as success now is winning, I would hate to see what losing looks like, because none of the shifting and contradictory objectives of the war so far have been achieved. Likewise, let me ask you, yesterday, the president said that ukraine has been " militarily defeated." I assume you don't agree with that assessment.
▶ 2:03:55Sec. Hegseth: The negative nature in which you characterize the incredible and historic efforts in iran is part of the reason why the american people view it the way they do. It is why I looked at our press corps and called them the pharisees in the press, because they look for every problem.
▶ 2:04:13Sen. Blumenthal: Militarily defeated. I would submit based on my nine trips to ukraine, that is a false narrative.
▶ 2:04:26Sec. Hegseth: We are two months into an historic military success in iran and you want to call it a defeat. It is defeatist democrats like you that claudia you that cla cloud the mind of the american people.
▶ 2:04:39Sen. Blumenthal: They are bravely fighting our fight. That is the reason I am pursuing the russian sanctions bill which is bipartisan along with senator graham, why I hope we will recognize our obligation to release that $400 million we have appropriated.
▶ 2:04:56Chair Wicker: Thank you senator ernst.
▶ 2:05:00Sen. Ernst: Thank you, Mr. chair. Thank you for being here today. Appreciate your time being with us. Before I begin, some of my questions, I want to start with something personal. Both to you, secretary hegseth, and to the chairman. I want to thank you both for the time that you take to recognize our fallen, those that have given of course during this administration, given their all.
▶ 2:05:29Sen. Ernst: You have traveled to dover, have been there to greet those families, welcome home the following. I have been there with you. Iowa has been hit particularly hard. We lost two of our eye when national guardsmen from the second brigade combat team, 30 fourth infantry division. Secretary hegseth, you know full well the 34th.
▶ 2:05:52Sen. Ernst: We also lost six members from the 103rd systemic and paned expeditionary based out of des moines, iowa during this current conflict. Your presence there meant a lot to the families. It also meant a lot to me, so thank you very much for taking the time to do that. Secretary hegseth come here and I have had many discussions over the course of many months now regarding general officer positions.
▶ 2:06:24Sen. Ernst: I believe that we were operating in good faith as we talked through a couple of those in particular, two iowans, general mingus, general randy george. I was disappointed to see that their retirements were hastened over what I believed have been set up by you and administration. I just want to take the time to list out some of general randy george's accomplishments as army chief of staff.
▶ 2:06:53Sen. Ernst: He pulled the army out of its worst recruiting crisis since the vietnam era, exceeding fiscal year 2024 recruiting goals, welcoming more than 61,000 new soldiers. Recruitment numbers that both you and the president talk a lot about and rightfully so. He cut 5% of general officer positions, 12 positions that were deemed as non-essential in the army. He reduced to the army headquarters by 1000 personnel.
▶ 2:07:23Sen. Ernst: He co-authored the army transformation initiative which is a comprehensive response aligned with your directives, and he testified here in front of congress and took a lot of heat defending that army transformation. He was suddenly let go at the beginning of april 2026. General george's merits, which I firmly believe in, he listed at the age of 17. He is a west point graduate. He had four combat deployments.
▶ 2:07:54Sen. Ernst: He served in desert storm, iraq, and afghanistan. He had 38 years of honorable service. He achieve the greatest army recruitment and modernization effort in a generation. So I want to thank him for his service, and I would like to enter into the record, Mr. chair, the speeches that I did honoring general randy a.
▶ 2:08:19Sen. Ernst: George on his retirement, and general j mingus on his retirement as well.
▶ 2:08:26Chair Wicker: Without objection.
▶ 2:08:28Sen. Ernst: Thank you very much. I like to talk a little bit about the audit, Mr. secretary. I saw the video you posted this week calling on the department to pass a clean audit. Thank you for doing that, it is something that we talked about during your confirmation hearing. Fiscal response ability at the department has been a priority of mine for a very long time. I think it is time that we build on that momentum. It's extremely important.
▶ 2:08:58Sen. Ernst: That is why I am pushing for my receipts act in this year's ndaa. It is focused on improving financial traceability and accountability across the department. If you could talk a little bit more about the efforts in making sure that we are being much more accountable to our taxpayers. What will that effort in tail, when will we see a clean audit?
▶ 2:09:20Sec. Hegseth: As I said, senator, thank you for your work on the audit. That has been a priority of our department from day one. We put in place goals, benchmarks to get to fy 28 for a clean audit. The joint task force audit was a reflection of even more capabilities we want to push forward and centralize authority to make sure it happens. Jay has been involved from the beginning.
▶ 2:09:45Sec. Hegseth: We also have a new ig whose focus is one of -- one of his focus point is precisely this. At every level, through this budget, it's a focus.
▶ 2:09:55Sen. Ernst: We look forward to seeing a clean audit.
▶ 2:09:59Chair Wicker: Senator hirono.
▶ 2:10:02Sen. Hirono: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I want to highlight the true costs of this war for the military and everyday americans, the true cost of the president's illegal war with iran. Since the start of the war, 14 brave U.S. service members have been killed, more than 400 have been wounded. We burned through over $25 billion in taxpayer money with no end in sight.
▶ 2:10:33Sen. Hirono: Fiscal year 20 seven budget request is a massive 42% increase from last year. Hundreds of critical munitions have been expended, and deployments have been extended, directly impacting service members quality of life, military readiness, and our ability to deter our adversaries. The relationships with our allies, some of our closest allies and partners, have been fractured.
▶ 2:11:05Sen. Hirono: The closure of the strait of hormuz, which somehow cut the president by surprise, even though he had to have been warned, is directly contributing to the unaffordable prices that americans are facing. Energy costs are skyrocketing with the price of gas now at its highest level in almost four years. Instability has driven interest rates to its highest level since september of last year.
▶ 2:11:33Sen. Hirono: The cost of fertilizer is spiking which will have a direct impact on the cost of food. This illegal war is driving up costs, undermining readiness, and alienating our allies with neither a clear rationale for starting this war, nor an exit strategy. When the president was asked how long he will let this war continue, he said do not rush me.
▶ 2:12:02Sen. Hirono: I have a question for general caine relating to women serving in combat. I would like to hear your best military advice. Does the mere fact of women being in combat armed units lower standards or readiness if they meet the physical standards?
▶ 2:12:20Gen. Caine: The standards are set by the civilians. We have examples of women leading well across the joint force. I will highlight some of our current commanders engaged in the fight in epic fury, specifically one of our bond squadrons led by an extra ordinary female leader who is doing great work.
▶ 2:12:46Sen. Hirono: I think your answer is that it does not affect standards of readiness. Should every service member regardless of gender be permitted to serve in any role including the combat arms if they meet the standards established? Yes or no?
▶ 2:13:08Sen. Hirono: Over the last decade, since combat arms have been open, have you personally seen any instance where the standard resulted in a degradation in combat effectiveness?
▶ 2:13:20Gen. Caine: Apologies, I did not hear your first question. People policies are all set by the civilian.
▶ 2:13:28Sen. Hirono: I'm asking personally. Over the last decade, since combat arms have been open to women, have you personally seen any instance where the standard resulted in a degradation in combat effectiveness?
▶ 2:13:41Gen. Caine: Again, I will highlight the standards are set by our civilian leaders. Women continue to perform well across a range of moss and jobs.
▶ 2:13:55Sen. Hirono: I need to get to a question to secretary hegseth. Prior to your nomination hearing, you said women shouldn't serve in combat armed units. At your confirmation hearing, he reversed course -- you reversed course. You basically said as long as the women meet the standards, they should be able to serve. Recently, you ordered a review of the effectiveness of women in combat roles.
▶ 2:14:22Sen. Hirono: I am concerned you are laying the groundwork to reverse the policy of a lot of women to serve in these units because current law, if you want to change the policy, it requires you to submit a report to congress justifying such a change. Did you order the review to support a potential decision to overturn the policy of having women in combat roles?
▶ 2:14:47Sec. Hegseth: We are laser focused on standards, the highest male standard for every combat arms position should be the standard. 10 years into this, we are reviewing it, which is what the american people would expect. There is nothing illegal about a war that defend the american people and prevents iran from having a nuclear weapon.
▶ 2:15:05Sen. Hirono: You didn't answer the question. The reason you're asking for this review I think has to do with your earlier position that you don't think women should serve in combat roles. Now we have this study.
▶ 2:15:18Chair Wicker: Senator --
▶ 2:15:22Sen. Hirono: Will you reveal the study to the public, will you make the study public? Yes or no?
▶ 2:15:29Sec. Hegseth: We are doing a study for that very reason. To make sure real science is applied to this question and not social engineering.
▶ 2:15:37Chair Wicker: We appreciate your assurance that that will be made. Senator scott.
▶ 2:15:48Sen. Scott: Thank you for being here. Secretary hegseth, what are you most proud of, what are your biggest challenges?
▶ 2:15:57Sec. Hegseth: I appreciate the question. What I am most proud of is the incredible men and women who serve in our nation's uniform, what they are capable of when given a clear mission and unleashed to do it. I think the best reflection of the success of president trump and this war department is the historic recruiting success and the historic morale among our ranks.
▶ 2:16:25Sec. Hegseth: I would encourage every member of this committee, go into the formations, air force, marine corps, talk to corporals, sergeants, talk to the tenets, talk to captains, talk to kernels. What you will find is men and women more inspired to serve in the military there they have been in a generation. You see that in the young americans who are rushing to recruiting stations at historic numbers. 30-year highs.
▶ 2:16:55Sec. Hegseth: We are hitting our recruiting numbers halfway through the year. Why?is that the american people look at the war department getting back to basics. They are attracted to that. Same with our retention rates which are now merit-based. Our best sergeants, best leaders are staying. That's exactly what we want. We have made changes to change the environment. The renaming of the department to the war department is not just a name, it is restoring it to the original name of the department set by george washington.
▶ 2:17:27Sec. Hegseth: But it is and eat those as well, that warrior ito's lives in the heart of every one of these men and women and we are unleashing it. The border, the missions, those are all incredible demonstrations of that, but it is the people and the urgency of americans that want to be a part of it that is the best affirmation.
▶ 2:17:43Sen. Scott: We talked about the importance of not relying on chinese drawers for our military. Can you talk about what you are doing to make sure we don't continue to rely on china for anything including drugs?
▶ 2:17:58Sec. Hegseth: Drugs? Absolutely. We cannot be dependent on china on anything that is critical to our supply chain even if it is the national defense base, not just the -- national industrial base, not just the defense base. You have been a part of that, bringing given abilities here, is central to the intra-agency and the nsc but also our department.
▶ 2:18:26Sec. Hegseth: If any critical weapons system is reliant on something that china could change at a moments notice, we have a true challenge at our ability to produce for the american people. We are changing them, on target, providing the defense industrial base allows us to ensure we are separated from china or anything that is critical.
▶ 2:18:45Sen. Scott: Can you talk about the importance of foreign military sales to our allies and partners and when you're doing to make sure that whether it is what you are doing right now in iran or any potential conflict in asia, our partners have the best assets to be able to be a great partner?
▶ 2:19:04Sec. Hegseth: Foreign military sales has been a huge problem for a long time because the department didn't prioritize it and organize to deliver efficiently on it. We are working with the state department, we have changed the way we do business internally. The america first arms strategy prioritizes what we sell and to whom, a catalog approach.
▶ 2:19:27Sec. Hegseth: This committee would be astonished to know how long it took us just to get our arms around who we are selling to what and by what processes, which means there was no strategy behind ensure we are sending the proper demand signal to industry and delivering those systems on time and under budget to those countries, which you can imagine is frustrating to partners who rely on those to be able to step up and burden share. Foreign military sales is critical to our own military industrial base.
▶ 2:19:53Sec. Hegseth: More customers for our companies that employ more american workers to ensure our allies are properly armed for the fight and they can stand alongside us.
▶ 2:20:00Sen. Scott: General caine, I want to commend you and everyone at the military for what you did in venezuela, what you have done in iran. The willingness of the american military to fight and win, do you think it is changing the calculus for beijing and moscow?
▶ 2:20:21Gen. Caine: Senator, I know they are watching. I'm incredibly proud of the joint force and their ability to integrate and synchronize a range of activities. I suspect my counterpart in china is watching very closely, envious of whatever joint force is capable of doing if ordered to do so.
▶ 2:20:45Sen. Scott: Thank you each of you. Thank you for everyone that serves under you.
▶ 2:20:50Chair Wicker: Senator kaine.
▶ 2:20:52Sen. Kaine: Thank you. Mr. hurst, I want you to confirm some thing about the president submitted budget. 1.5 trillion dollars is about a 40% increase from fy 26. Am I right that not a penny of that is to go to a pay raise for the 800,000 civilians who worked for the department of defense?
▶ 2:21:15Mr. Hurst: We have 4.2% of sibling salaries set aside for bonuses to make sure we can recognize high performers.
▶ 2:21:23Sen. Kaine: You have guaranteed pay raises for the active duty and regard components but --
▶ 2:21:30Mr. Hurst: The last year, this department has given up more civilian bonuses.
▶ 2:21:35Sen. Kaine: If you are going to increase the defense budget by that much, I would hope that we could take a look at this. General caine, I want to ask you a question about southern sphere, and operational question. I know that you carefully act to keep military actions within the rules of war. What legal justification could there possibly be that would allow the U.S.
▶ 2:22:04Sen. Kaine: Military to strike both in international waters and kill the occupants of those boats without a showing of evidence that there is narcotics on those vessels?
▶ 2:22:15Gen. Caine: Sir, as you know, our job is to show the range of options, associated risks, and then take those execution orders, transmit them down to the cocomms legally appropriate and legally backstop actions.
▶ 2:22:33Sen. Kaine: Can you give a legal justification that authorized striking boats that do not have evidence that they are carrying narcotics?
▶ 2:22:43Gen. Caine: I don't have a copy of the order issue to south come with me today, it is classified in its own right, which clearly articulates based on a variety of criteria what constitutes a valid military and legally valid target in that theater.
▶ 2:23:03Gen. Caine: I just want to say, I know and trust that our commanders at echelon are vigorously following that legal opinion and legal boundaries upon which we have been issued those orders.
▶ 2:23:16Sen. Kaine: General caine, I would again encourage my colleagues. I have seen the legal opinion but I cannot talk about it because it is classified. I have seen the targeting criteria but I cannot talk about it because it is classified. I have seen the secret lists of dto's against him that we have declared war and they not ha declared war and they not had nt been informed that because it is classified. I would encourage all of my colleagues to read the targeting criteria.
▶ 2:23:47Sen. Kaine: Also look at all of the files of all the strikes that have taken place. I have done that with the first 46 strikes or so. I think there is a profound mismatch between what is occurring and the underlying assumptions in the legal opinion. I would just encourage my colleagues to dig into this. Secretary hegseth, general caine, the war powers resolution specifies a war initiated by a president without congressional approval must be concluded within 60 days.
▶ 2:24:18Sen. Kaine: It can be extended by an additional 30 days if "the president determines and certifies to congress in writing that unavoidable military does the city respecting the safety of the U.S. armed forces requires the continued use of such armed forces in the course of bringing about a prompt removal of such forces." we are right at the 60-day deadline.
▶ 2:24:41Sen. Kaine: It is the president intending to either seek congressional authorization for the more or send us the legally required certification that he needs an additional 30 days to remove U.S. forces of the war?
▶ 2:24:54Sec. Hegseth: On the previous question, we know these are designated terrorist organizations, so we treat them like the al qaeda of our hemisphere.
▶ 2:25:02Sen. Kaine: That was not the question I asked. I asked whether there is evidence to understand.
▶ 2:25:09Sec. Hegseth: There is no willy-nilly targeting of drug boats.
▶ 2:25:13Sen. Kaine: I was asking about what is on the boats.
▶ 2:25:16Sec. Hegseth: Iran, I would differ to white house counsel on that. However, we are in a cease-fire right now which means that the 60-day clock pauses or stops. That is our understanding.
▶ 2:25:30Sen. Kaine: I do not believe the statute would support that. I think the 60 days runs tomorrow. It will pose a really important legal question for the administration. We have serious constitutional concerns. We don't want to layer those with additional statutory concerns.
▶ 2:25:49Chair Wicker: Senator sullivan.
▶ 2:25:54Sen. Sullivan: Thank you for your testimony. Mr. secretary, I mentioned in the classified hearing today but I think the $1.5 trillion topline is historic. The other thing I mentioned in our earlier meeting, the president has done a really good job of getting other allies, nato, asian allies to step up. We need 5% gdp spending.
▶ 2:26:22Sen. Sullivan: In many ways, this is what this is doing as well. Isn't that important in terms of our global leadership, what you and the president are providing?
▶ 2:26:30Sec. Hegseth: The more we step up, the more the world to look at the american leadership and example and stop up as well.
▶ 2:26:37Sen. Sullivan: They are going to do that.
▶ 2:26:39Sec. Hegseth: It remains to be seen whether some of our allies step up to their commitments, but that is the hope.
▶ 2:26:47Sen. Sullivan: Let me go to an element of that but it did I mention the classified hearing. I always like to put this chart up in different hearings. Our adversaries, the chinese, the russians in my aor in the arctic. Incursions by the russians, the chinese.
▶ 2:27:12Sen. Sullivan: The green ones are joint russian and chinese strategic bomber taskforces, joint russian chinese naval taskforces. This is america. This is a really important part of our national defense. I was pleased to see that one of the elements in the budget was what was referred to by the air force as the jbear fire town recapitalization, given how strategically important that air force base is.
▶ 2:27:44Sen. Sullivan: General, can you talk a little bit about that recapitalization for building out what is a very strategic base but old? A lot of these facilities are from the 1950's. The goal, in the air force's language, was to have recapitalization, to provide a state-of-the-art fighter facility capable of supporting multiple platforms now and well into the future.
▶ 2:28:14Sen. Sullivan: 6.9 billion dollars total authorization, to billion-dollar appropriation for this year. I was glad to host you recently. Can you talk about the importance of this element in the president's budget?
▶ 2:28:25Gen. Caine: Thank you for that. Our investment at jbear is essential to modernizing the nation's ability to project power and capabilities. Really bolsters our effort in not only the indo pacific but also in the high north and arctic, which is something that is passionate to you. The arctic is certainly becoming more operationally and strategically valuable.
▶ 2:28:53Gen. Caine: We need to be thinking proactively around how we are going to set the conditions for us to offer a range of options to the secretary and president about power production. Across a range of capabilities, and that is certainly one of them, the effort that is there. Our ability to protect that flag is a national imperative, something we want to keep focused on.
▶ 2:29:18Gen. Caine: We appreciate the efforts across this committee and the rest of the congress to help us with that.
▶ 2:29:23Sen. Sullivan: Mr. secretary, one of the things I've been talking about, that is really important now is american energy, us being energy dominant. The president put a recent executive order out highlighting the need to accelerate the ability to produce lng in america.
▶ 2:29:48Sen. Sullivan: We have a huge lng project that we are getting close to getting off the ground in alaska, would be huge for the military in terms of energy for our military, huge for our allies. Can I get your commitment to work with me and this committee, you mention in your testimony the office of strategic capital. This to me is one of these projects that I think would be absolutely critical for our national security.
▶ 2:30:14Sen. Sullivan: We talked about this, in the admiral testimony last week come he talked about this being hugely strategic, kind of like a private sector american captive to the chinese built road initiative. It would be a great opportunity to work with the office of strategic capital. Can I get your commitment to do this on this project?
▶ 2:30:35Sec. Hegseth: Yes, very aware of that project. The office of strategic capital is a great place to look at partnering.
▶ 2:30:41Sen. Sullivan: Finally, I will just ask, 47 years of war we have had with iran. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle, they talk about the civilian casualties. These are all horrible. Horrible whenever there are any civilian casualties. But generally, do our forces target civilians ever?
▶ 2:31:08Gen. Caine: Never intentionally. I don't know in any particular case of unintentional, but we don't do that.
▶ 2:31:18Sen. Sullivan: Do our adversaries target civilians?
▶ 2:31:22Gen. Caine: Yes, sir.
▶ 2:31:24Sen. Sullivan: It's really important as we bring this topic up to remember who we are and who our adversaries are.
▶ 2:31:31Chair Wicker: Senator sullivan, do you ask unanimous consent to have the two exhibits added to the record? Without objection, that will be done. Senator king.
▶ 2:31:43Sen. King: We have a lot to talk about with iran and other aspects of the budget. The first is the way the budget is constructed. Ever since I've been here until last year, we have had bipartisan budgets and national defense authorization acts passed by majorities, I voted for all of them.
▶ 2:32:06Sen. King: This year, 25% of the budget is essentially out of the process and will be passed presumably through some kind of reconciliation which is by definition a partisan exercise. Mr. secretary , with all those items, housing, golden dome, why are they not in the regular budget?
▶ 2:32:27Sen. King: Why do we suddenly have a two-part budget where this committee and the congress generally has oversight and input to a process where a quarter of the budget is essentially a slush fund?
▶ 2:32:40Sec. Hegseth: I appreciate the question. I wouldn't characterize a quarter of it as a slush fund but I recognize that we see it as in totality as a $1.5 trillion budget.
▶ 2:32:50Sen. King: By the two pieces?
▶ 2:32:53Sec. Hegseth: There are multiple dynamics at play into why there are multiple vehicles but we are fully committed to working with the committee to make sure the right vehicles are utilized to get precisely this amount, $1.5 trillion.
▶ 2:33:05Sen. King: You didn't answer my question. Why are there two pieces? For time immemorial, we have done but it's here, never use this reconciliation process for defense budgets. What is going on?
▶ 2:33:20Sec. Hegseth: My understanding is to ensure that we actually get the 1.5 trillion which is the most important bottom line. The most important is that 1.5 trillion to fund what we need. We think this process the most effective way to get there.
▶ 2:33:37Sen. King: What you are really saying is we don't want to deal with that pesky congress and their appropriations process. I think this is significant, Mr. chairman. We are basically abdicating a quarter of our responsibility in terms of this budget. Let me move on. One of the factors of this budget that has not gotten any publicity is there is zero funding for ukraine. That is correct, Mr. hurst?
▶ 2:34:02Mr. Hurst: That is correct. There is no usai funding in this budget.
▶ 2:34:07Sen. King: There was $400 billion appropriated last year by a bipartisan act of congress. What has become of that money? My understanding is not a dollar of it has been dispersed.
▶ 2:34:20Mr. Hurst: It was released very recently. We got these funds in march. It takes time for the funds to flow through department but it will be put to work very shortly. We will work with the command to make sure that we use these funds in the most appropriate way possible.
▶ 2:34:36Sen. King: I didn't want senator sullivan to be the only one with an exhibit. This indicates what has happened to our support for ukraine over the years. The orange bars are you a support, the blue is europe. As you can see, europe is 99% in 2020 six, same thing with humanitarian and other aid to ukraine.
▶ 2:35:00Sen. King: This is I believe an existential struggle for the future of democracy where we have an aggressive country invade a neighboring country without any justification whatsoever. By the way, that invading country is the major winter so far of the war in iran. Estimates are they have gotten 40 to $80 billion in additional revenues from oil and the relief of sanctions as a result of the war in iran. Secretary hegseth, why are we abandoning ukraine?
▶ 2:35:29Sec. Hegseth: If you would hold that chart back up, I think that is a beautiful chart. That's exactly what we want. We want europe stepping up and shouldering the burden. They are rich countries worth $20 trillion versus an economy of $2 trillion. Europe can step up, and they have through our purl initiative and european command. That's exactly what the american people want to see, other countries stepping up.
▶ 2:35:56Sec. Hegseth: If that is that important to europe, and I understand the bravery of the ukrainians, then european countries should pay for it. That is what that chart says, and that is the initiation policy.
▶ 2:36:07Sen. King: We don't have any interest in what happens in ukraine, only the europeans?
▶ 2:36:13Sec. Hegseth: The threat is far closer to rich and capable countries in europe and they should step up to lead the charge.
▶ 2:36:19Sen. King: They have stepped up. I think the american people should understand that we have stepped back, to the point of abandoning.
▶ 2:36:29Sec. Hegseth: This is a war that there would have happened under president trump.
▶ 2:36:33Sen. King: I'm out of time. I want to talk about dtos. We will take it up later.
▶ 2:36:41Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator king. Senator schmitt.
▶ 2:36:46Sen. Schmitt: Thank you. Following my friend from maine. Maine in missouri came into the unit at the same time but we couldn't disagree more on this point. I think it is interesting that ukraine just came up because we have heard from my colleagues on the other side discussion about the cost of what the ongoing american effort. There was never a discussion about the $200 billion we were sending to a foreign country that is not even in nato.
▶ 2:37:17Sen. Schmitt: In fact, when amendments were offered for independent audits of how that money was spent, there was bipartisan opposition to that kind of oversight. I find it really rich now that there is a complaint that we are not spending money on ukraine -- and by the way, $30 billion for salaries for bureaucrats, pensions and social safety net programs and government operations to keep the state functioning during wartime.
▶ 2:37:46Sen. Schmitt: That is where american taxpayers are going, 30 billion dollars for bureaucrats in ukraine. We just heard a speech for more money for ukraine. Yet the 1.5 trillion for this country is being balked at. I have seen ukraine flags around this capital for three years, at the same time, the same people call the president of the united states, of this country, a nazi.
▶ 2:38:15Sen. Schmitt: Forgive me if I feel like we have lost our barons a little bit. I am all for the america first agenda, I am all for us realigning our priorities, I'm all for the national defense strategy that says our core strategic interests are the homeland, the western hemisphere, and the rising threat in china. And that means our european allies should step up.
▶ 2:38:38Sen. Schmitt: If vladimir putin is truly some existential threat and the next hitler that will roll to hit her, by the way, he cannot take to, so he cannot have it both ways. But they would step up. We better start demanding that because if you want to start meeting the challenges of the 21st century in china, our priorities, our focus has to be somewhere else.
▶ 2:39:03Sen. Schmitt: It doesn't mean abandonment, it just means a true partnership with our european allies, who for a very long time, have not stepped up. Mr. secretary, one of the things that has really gone to war this morale and recruitment boom we have seen through your leadership and president trump was finally taking on the cultural marxism that had taken hold from the highest levels of leadership from the president of the united states to your predecessor, this obsession with dei.
▶ 2:39:32Sen. Schmitt: Could you walk through may be the worst example that you saw, the way you address that, how it is affecting morale?
▶ 2:39:38Sec. Hegseth: Thank you, senator. I want to fully associate myself with the first two and half minutes of your comments. I appreciate that respect very much so. 30 billion dollars for bureaucrats in ukraine is more than a bill that we have talked about today for an existential and critically important war to ensure that iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon.
▶ 2:40:01Sec. Hegseth: I haven't talked about as much in these hearings because this is a budget hearing, about 1.5 show, historic and significant, but underwriting to change that we have seen in our department was a laser focus on getting back to basics. The key word to that is merit we had a department obsessed with gender ideology, race, diversity, equity, inclusion. The mantra you would hear from the lips of generals, our diversity is our strength.
▶ 2:40:34Sec. Hegseth: Which is the single dumbest phrase in military history. Of course our diversity is not our strength, our unity is our strength. Our shared purpose. The flag we were and the constitution we serve to defend. When you clear that debris away, whether marxist ideologies or social engineering or political correctness or quotas based on gender and diversity, you get the best of the best rising up regardless of gender, regardless of race, motivated by that
▶ 2:41:04Sec. Hegseth: Environment where merit rains. It is accountability, standards, lethality, readiness, training, all the debris wiped away. That is the secret sauce of the revival of the war department and why americans are attracted to serving in it and why those inside it, why morale is sky high. Any insinuation that it is not are coming from folks that have not been in our units recently. Visit the troops at every level and their morale is at record levels.
▶ 2:41:30Sen. Schmitt: I want to thank you for coming to st. Louis for your arsenal tour, where the next generation of the aircraft is being built by the hard-working men and women of missouri, taking tremendous amount of pride for that aircraft that will go further, see further, go faster, have a bigger payload. I know there is another decision coming up, but appreciate your leadership.
▶ 2:41:53Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator schmitt. Senator king, do you wish to ask unanimous consent to include your exhibit in the record? Without objection that will be done. Senator warren.
▶ 2:42:08Sen. Warren: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Americans are paying a high press with the war with iran. 14 service members dad, over 400 more wounded, prices rising for nearly every american family. But someone is profiting off of trump's war. Insiders who know what is going on and place bets on that inside information.
▶ 2:42:35Sen. Warren: On march 23, just 14 minutes before trump unexpectedly posted about "very good conversations on ending the war," traders suddenly bet $500 million on the price of oil, which once trump made the announcement, immediately dropped.
▶ 2:42:55Sen. Warren: It happened again on april 7, again on april 21, a surge in oil bets, than a trump post, and in a huge shift in oil prices, in just the space of minutes. It looks like insiders have been making out like bandits using secret information about the war. One U.S. soldier has been charged but that was for betting on capturing maduro months ago.
▶ 2:43:24Sen. Warren: Not a single person has been charged in the many, many trades over the middle east war. Secretary hegseth, do you have any explanation for these perfectly timed spikes in trading activity other than insider trading?
▶ 2:43:45Sec. Hegseth: All I can tell you is that everything we have done in our department, everything we have done with information, working with the white house and across the inter-agency, been completely aboveboard.
▶ 2:43:58Sen. Warren: Do you have any other explanation other than insider trading? Do you have a story for why, minutes before there is an announcement, there is a surge in trading activity?
▶ 2:44:10Sec. Hegseth: I am more than focus on doing my job to ensure we execute properly. Thankfully, under this administration, our troops have done incredible things and all of these missions. My job and all those moments is to make sure we are prepared. That is part of why we have been so successful in these rates, efforts.
▶ 2:44:28Sen. Warren: You are saying you are not paying attention to this insider trading, is that what you're telling me? You have not noticed it, have not done anything about it?
▶ 2:44:38Sec. Hegseth: I am saying we are focused on our mission of executing for the american people. What happens in markets is not something we are involved in.
▶ 2:44:47Sen. Warren: What happens in betting market doesn't matter to you even if the information may be coming from insiders in your office?
▶ 2:44:55Sec. Hegseth: It is not something we are involved in. We take operational security at every level seriously. No one has taken operational security more seriously than us. If you look at what it required to keep secret midnight hammer and operation absolute resolve with maduro, the steps we have taken, no one has been tighter about ensuring operational security --
▶ 2:45:20Sen. Warren: Dealing with insider trading insider office?
▶ 2:45:25Sec. Hegseth: We would ensure that at every level insider information --
▶ 2:45:29Sen. Warren: I take that as a no. Obviously you are not. I'm also concerned about recent reporting on your own financial dealings with regard to profiting from the war in iran. The financial times reported that your brokerage invested in hundreds of shares in a defense company just before the war began. The law clearly prohibits the secretary --
▶ 2:45:54Sec. Hegseth: That story is false. Anybody that looks at it sees how it was worded from the beginning to look like I was involved in something. I have nothing to do with it. Any insinuation that I've ever profited other than serving this nation, what I give, what you give him what others give, not looking for money. I don't do it for money, I don't do it for profit or stocks. That is the reason I can be effective in that job. No one owns this department. No one owns this president.
▶ 2:46:24Sec. Hegseth: We can execute for the american people.
▶ 2:46:26Sen. Warren: The law clearly prohibits the secretary of defense from owning stock in the 10 biggest defense contractors. Other senators and I sent you a letter with detailed questioning about this. You have not given us a response. I would like to hear you say, did you come in through say, did you come to your program morgan stanley or otherwise, seek to invest in any defense-related fund right before trump started the iran war?
▶ 2:46:56Sec. Hegseth: I will give it to you with a big fat negative.
▶ 2:47:05Sen. Warren: Is there any investment and --
▶ 2:47:13Sec. Hegseth: Bigger, fatter negative. I'm not making investments, senator.
▶ 2:47:21Sen. Warren: I'm asking, does he know he has to get your sign off before he does that?
▶ 2:47:24Sec. Hegseth: Of course. I don't know what you are looking for, but you ain't going to find it?
▶ 2:47:32Sen. Warren: I would like to enter into the record the agreement that he signed off personally before his broker makes any attempt to buy dispense stock?
▶ 2:47:49Sen. Chair Wicker: Without objection. >> I've been in washington for 10 years been secretary of defense, now you are the best we've had some of what you've done to restore readiness, recruitment, get the pentagon focused on war fighting is second to none, and I appreciate what you come up president trump, and general caine are doing very much.
▶ 2:48:22Sen. Chair Wicker: The china military power report, "china believes the next resolution in military affairs will occur when china transitions to warfare and fully integrate artificial intelligence, big data, advanced computing, and other technologies into the joint force." can you describe, general, and greater detail how the pla is using ai to enhance its military capability?
▶ 2:48:51Gen. Caine: You bet, senator, they are attempting to go across the advance, intelligence, certainly connecticut and non-connecticut capabilities, and to certain extent sustainment. I will note that so are we, and in many cases, we are out in front of them.
▶ 2:49:20Gen. Caine: I want to commend our chief digital and artificial intelligence officers inside the joint force with the services who are also leaning very far in as we march towards a digitized joint force that allows us to see a command-and-control force better.
▶ 2:49:40Gen. Caine: >> the china military power report goes on to note the chinese ai sector remains "constrained by its limited access to high-performance ai chips. General caine, how big of an advantage is it for the american war fighter that america's arsenal of compute is bigger than china?
▶ 2:50:04Gen. Caine: It is critical to us, and, you know, while I acknowledge there are all kinds of ship issues, -- chip issues, it is important for us to scale at that. The committee to advance and cyber capabilities, we appreciate the help.
▶ 2:50:28Sen. Sheehy: If that were eroded as a result, what are some of the potential consequences for american war fighters?
▶ 2:50:36Gen. Caine: Well, sir, it could certainly put us at risk, which is why we are leaning in so hard. There's always a balance between commerce and protection. I acknowledge those are policy matters, I think is what you are starting to get towards, but on a pure military only standpoint, we would see some defense and depth eroded from that.
▶ 2:51:01Sen. Sheehy: Secretary hegseth, do you agree that advanced chinese ai abilities could put american service members at risk?
▶ 2:51:09Sec. Hegseth: Senator, we absolutely have to stay ahead. The advantage ai provides to any capabilities, whether domain awareness, targeting cycles, you name it, that's what we've made it a forefront, ai first with everything we do, integrating it at every potential echelon to ensure we respond faster. We are better at that than any adversaries come it will give us an advantage, and we have to maintain that.
▶ 2:51:36Sen. Sheehy: I agree. Do you agree we have to do everything in our power to ensure american service members go to battle with an overwhelming and fear-inducing technological advantage, particularly with ai?
▶ 2:51:49Sec. Hegseth: Always. Overwhelming is the goal in every scenario.
▶ 2:51:53Sen. Sheehy: Earlier this year, the pentagon issued updated guidelines that prohibit it department funds from supporting grants and contracts involving fundamental research, collaboration was blacklisted chinese entities. How important are those restrictions to safeguarding our technological leadership?
▶ 2:52:10Sec. Hegseth: We have to have them. Especially when you look at the battle of -- power of models and all those things. You have connections to entities that have connections to your adversaries, degradation to your advantage.
▶ 2:52:24Sen. Sheehy: Again, this is where I appreciate your leadership, Mr. secretary, which has been second to none of them and I know you will help work with congress to have codified those restrictions and encourage taxpayer dollars to never advance the capabilities of our enemies and adversaries.
▶ 2:52:42Sen. Sheehy: I appreciate both your leadership, we've come a long wait in a couple of years, night and day difference between the last administration is apparent to every hoosier I talk to, so I appreciate your leadership. I yelled back.
▶ 2:52:56Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Mr. peters.
▶ 2:53:01Sen. Peters: Gentlemen, welcome to the committee. I appreciate the discussion get the number one question I get what I'm back home from people is basically very simply, when will this war end? We know the cost that the american people are paying. Higher fuel costs, farmers are paying him a higher fertilizer costs, we know the whole economy is paying a great deal for this war. Basically, think that through. This is what I want to talk to you about.
▶ 2:53:30Sen. Peters: We all know it is a lot easier to go to war than it is to get out of war. That is always the test question. And we've got to figure that out, and there are some folks who have written quite a bit about this. One text on war by carl's and cost co -- karl von, the most widely read, influential military strategy book in western history, which is pretty
▶ 2:54:01Sen. Peters: Broad, and it is the core curriculum that is read in all of the war colleges. I read it when I was at the navy war college taking courses. As part of what the U.S. military thinks about when they go to war and then how to get out of the war. One of the core principles it starts with, war is the continuation of politics by other means.
▶ 2:54:25Sen. Peters: Everybody knows that quote, everyone who has warned the uniform. There's politics to get into the war, politics to get out of the war, and in between, we rely on the men and women in the military to carry out these policies. I want to be clear, we note the military plays an important part, they do a good job, and nobody questions the amazing work that our men and women in the U.S. military have done and continue to do.
▶ 2:54:55Sen. Peters: They have performed absolutely brilliantly, and we applaud all that they have done. However, what we do question is the politics part. The continuation of politics. Our political leaders that get us into war and our political leaders who get us out of that war, which falls on you, secretary hegseth, and others in the administration, including the president and his commander-in-chief. Are you familiar with the concept in that look of center of gravity?
▶ 2:55:23Sec. Hegseth: Sure.
▶ 2:55:26Sen. Peters: Center of gravity is basically, as you know, the help of power, movement of everything depends on it. If you don't take out the center of gravity, it is very difficult to win the war. You can have tactical successes, military successes, but if you are not focused on that, you are not going to be able to win.
▶ 2:55:49Sen. Peters: Basically, he talks about military strikes are tactical, and tactical success is not necessarily create the political conditions necessary to get the party to the table to negotiate and get it done. So we've got to focus on that. My question for you, Mr. secretary, what is the center of gravity for iran?
▶ 2:56:06Sec. Hegseth: The center of gravity, and as the president sees it and I've seen it, and he's talked about it for 30 years, is their pursuit of a nuclear weapon and what to do with it, in pursuit as an extension of the radical ideology they have professed since the beginning of their revolution. The prophetic ideology they have professed alongside the most dangerous weapon in the rolled will be the center of gravity.
▶ 2:56:30Sen. Peters: I appreciate that. I will elaborate more. General caine, you know more about clase about clasusewitz and strategy that out and I will ever know. What would you say about clausewitz's center of gravity?
▶ 2:56:50Gen. Caine: Well, senator, you will not like this answer, but I will say it, war is politics by any other means, and determines whether the center of gravity is associated with that. From a military only perspective, there's a variety of things we can look at from center of gravity's, from leadership to world capabilities, but I will defer to our political leaders.
▶ 2:57:13Sen. Peters: That's fair. I don't like it, you are right. I know you know the answers that come and you are just not telling me.
▶ 2:57:22Gen. Caine: Right.
▶ 2:57:24Sen. Peters: Other observer's come if you think of the leader, that is not necessarily make the change, and the landscape is probably the islamic revolutionary guard corps. That's the center of gravity. They are very diverse to do that. The americans center of gravity is probably our economy and the ability to maintain public support. We know the impact to our economy. Symptoms that is deliverance. The leverage is the strait of hormuz.
▶ 2:57:56Sen. Peters: That is bottom-line, we have to open that up. We have to take that away from iran. The fact that we have not done that yet and we are 60 days in, we are just now bringing minesweepers from the pacific in there. We have some unmanned opportunities, but we've got to have the capacity to do that. And it's clear, even if there was a plan to keep the strait open, it was not going to be implemented, because they were not positioned in a place that actually opens the straits.
▶ 2:58:27Sen. Peters: If they were, we would see those happening right now. We are not. So we are missing the point here. Center of gravity will be bringing down the government of iran in a way that they want to have a peace treaty, so we can protect our country from having nuclear weapons pointed our way. The center of gravity is going to be, in a lot of ways, focused on what happens on the straits, and that, Mr. secretary, we got to see actions in a lesson on the straits. The world community needs it.
▶ 2:58:55Sen. Peters: We are not going to bring this war to an end until we seas control --
▶ 2:59:04Sec. Hegseth: Which is why we have a blockade that is impenetrable for the iranians, because they do not have a conventional navy to contest it. We control the straits.
▶ 2:59:14Chair Wicker: Your time, senator peters, has expired. Let me observe that I very much appreciate the senator from michigan suggesting ways in which our efforts in a rhyme could be more successful. -- in iran could be more successful. Let me also say that civilian control goes back well beyond marshall.
▶ 2:59:37Chair Wicker: It goes back to george washington, who was wise enough to resign his commission to the elected membership of the government at that time. Senator sheehy, you are recognized.
▶ 2:59:52Sen. Sheehy: I think it is important to note the objective is not to get out of the war, the objective is to win the war, not to get out of it. And I think we've allowed the narrative to shift so off target here. President trump did not start this war. We did not start this war.
▶ 3:00:08Sen. Sheehy: These radical, barbarian, savage clerics who started killing americans 47 years ago in a unilateral campaign of murder, terror, treason, kidnapping, torture, have been murdering our countrymen all over this world, almost every single year, hijacking their planes, cruise liners, lowing of our ships, capturing our soldiers and murdering them in brutal ways. They started this war.
▶ 3:00:37Sen. Sheehy: And it would be easier to beat them if we did not have administration shoveling hundred's of billions of dollars into their pockets while they are actively fighting their own people. Our own service members have been fighting this murderous regime, and we have presidents quite literally shifting cash to pay these terrorists off. It has been a disgrace, and embarrassment to this country for far too long. General caine, I have a specific question for you.
▶ 3:01:04Sen. Sheehy: I think in this day and age, we all know every single operation that we partake in, whether it is stealth bombers, a blockade come our special operations have a special shaping to all of those. Would you agree?
▶ 3:01:18Gen. Caine: Yes, senator, I would.
▶ 3:01:22Sen. Sheehy: I think for the last 15 years, it has been -- the budget has been largely flat, even adjusted for inflation, yet continuously we call on those warriors to deliver the impossible, and they pretty much do. We are reminded a few weeks ago can even after the amazing maduro rate, yet again our community did what people probably thought was impossible, and they did the job.
▶ 3:01:53Sen. Sheehy: We call on a tiny fraction of our military to carry such a heavy load and has is often but without the appropriate resources. I would like to hear your thoughts on how we could not just increase the budget to make sure we are shaping the budget to make sure that those warriors are getting the direct support for training and sustainment but also the platform that they need from submarines to manned aircraft, unmanned aircraft, and that that needed for the mission are furnished and deployed rapidly.
▶ 3:02:23Sen. Sheehy: I would like to talk about the budget increase, how fast we could do that, and what we can do.
▶ 3:02:29Gen. Caine: Well, sir, I will express my appreciation for the entire so common force at echelon -- socom force at echelon and the work they do. I will leave the budget numbers to my leadership, but to echo your point, the exponential return on whatever investment they get, these are incredible entrepreneurial leaders at every echelon who do great things, as the lights dim, as I say that.
▶ 3:03:00Gen. Caine: Hopefully they will see that as a nod. I will defer the budget allocation numbers to the comptroller, sir.
▶ 3:03:08Gen. Hurst: First of all, I want to --
▶ 3:03:11Sec. Hegseth: First of all, I want to second completely your remarks. On the socom budget, we need to increase what is in the budget, and I've heard from multiple people on that. If there is a supplemental, as you just wrote a note to j about it, I think socom, given their direct participation in so many historic aspects, socom should be part of that supplemental as well. It makes complete sense.
▶ 3:03:39Sec. Hegseth: Who has been shouldering a huge amount of the burden? Special operations command. I fully agree and think we need to invest more.
▶ 3:03:48Sen. Sheehy: Great. I would ask that particular care be given, the era of beers and guns, as much fun as that was for all of us, it is coming to a close, and we are going to be going back to our roots as specialized commandos, whether airborne operations, whether airborne operations command as we became one joint force during g what, quite frankly, that was easier to budget for in a choir for.
▶ 3:04:15Sen. Sheehy: It will be harder now when our operators go back to their service corners and need platform-pacspecific training. It's not just by adding more ammo and body armor and sending them downrange. We have to think about it more differently than we have been for the last 25 years and make sure we program it in a way that is sustained and protected. Thank you.
▶ 3:04:42Chair Wicker: Thank you for that insightful exchange. Senator kelly?
▶ 3:04:49Sen. Kelly: Thank you for being here, secretary hegseth. It's safe to say that our tomahawk's, patriot missiles have capabilities that are unmatched. That's why they cost a lot, take a long time to produce. Your budget request, $31.8 billion to expand duction capacity for critical mission stockpile, is that correct, $31.8 billion?
▶ 3:05:13Sec. Hegseth: I'm looking at 53 billion dollars for acceleration over 14 critical missions of which you are a part.
▶ 3:05:29Sen. Kelly: $53 billion, more than $20 billion more. We been working together to grow the industrial base, because we are all worried about how our stockpiles would hold up in a conflict against china. Since the start of this war, you have made it a point to highlight the number of strikes the U.S. military is carrying out, citing the more than 13,000 targets have been struck as of april 8.
▶ 3:05:49Sen. Kelly: On march 2, this is a quote, this was a massive overwhelming attack across all domains of warfare, striking more than 1000 targets, and on march 10, you said yet again our most intense day of strikes inside to be wrong. On april 6, you said, another quote, the largest volume of strikes since day one of this operation. Your department has released video after video of things blowing up.
▶ 3:06:17Sen. Kelly: None of us doubt the strength of the U.S. military and their ability to do hard things. I understand that better than anybody. The question we should be asking and answering are, what does this cost us, and what does it achieve for the american people? Many of these strikes use our best weapons, and we are using a lot of them and a lot of interceptors.
▶ 3:06:43Sen. Kelly: Open source reporting has estimated that the military has used an outrageous number of patriots. I'm not even going to say the numbers, but a lot of patriots, tomahawk's, very expensive, exquisite. We cannot make these munitions overnight, and it is clear from your budget request that you know that. Can you tell us how many years, specifically, is it going to take to replace these systems.
▶ 3:07:16Sec. Hegseth: Senator, thank you for the question. I would defer to the comptroller for the amount, because I think it is a lot higher than $53 billion. $40 billion for hypersonic it I think it is actually closer to $330 billion in munitions.
▶ 3:07:33Sen. Kelly: How much to replenish?
▶ 3:07:35Sec. Hegseth: I think that is the right question, senator, because the timeframe we were operating under was unacceptable. In months and years, we are building new plants in real time just to replace -- I said months, then you said years. It depends on the weapons system. But 2, 3 x what we have today. When they send to ukraine and allocated.
▶ 3:08:01Sen. Kelly: So we fired years' worth of munitions, and it is clear that the work being expended to try to achieve some objective, that was the plan, but, Mr. secretary, this war is stuck. The strait of hormuz is closed. The iranian regime is in place. The nuclear material still in their hands.
▶ 3:08:31Sen. Kelly: Americans are being crushed by higher costs, and it is not clear to them at all what the goal of this war is. So, I've got about a minute, and I want to go to another topic. I saw your hearing yesterday, and I'm going to give you one more chance to address a question here.
▶ 3:08:55Sen. Kelly: It is my understanding that the definition of no quarter is that legitimate offers of surrender will be refused or that detainees will be executed. It is that your understanding of the definition?
▶ 3:09:14Sec. Hegseth: The only entity that would kill detainees or target civilians is the iranians, and they are the ones being crushed. So the iranian military and the military capability.
▶ 3:09:25Sen. Kelly: The question is -- no, do you understand the definition that I just read to you? Because that is a definition, from your department oppose the law of war manual. Is that your understanding?
▶ 3:09:38Sec. Hegseth: We fight to win, and we follow the law, senator.
▶ 3:09:43Sen. Kelly: Your quote was, we will keep pushing come if advancing, no quarter, no mercy for our enemy, and yesterday, you did not clarify whether you stand by this statement. So I'm going to give you another opportunity to clarify if that is what you meant. Do you stand by that statement you made on march 13?
▶ 3:10:03Sec. Hegseth: We have untied the hands of our war fighters. We fight to win, and we follow the law.
▶ 3:10:11Sen. Kelly: Ok, so you are not clarifying. So you stand by that statement. Mr. sec. Of defense, the things you say matter, and your response here, right now, makes it clear to the american people exactly why you are not right to this job.
▶ 3:10:28Sec. Hegseth: Makes it clear to our enemy, senator.
▶ 3:10:32Sen. Kelly: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 3:10:34Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator sheehy has left the room, but it has been whispered to me that I just referred to him in the last exchange as senator schmitt. I don't know if he considered that a compliment or an insult, but I do correct that, for the record. Senator slotkin, I think that you were next.
▶ 3:10:56Sen. Slotkin: Thank you. Mr. chairman, you are here to ask for 1.5 trillion dollars, 40% more than what we gave you last year, $1 trillion. And I agree with the chairman of the committee that the world has never been more dangerous and complicated.
▶ 3:11:16Sen. Slotkin: And regardless of whether we disagree on the reasons for getting into this war, I think we can all agree that we want our military to come out of it safely and successfully, and, you know, as soon as feasible. The military has taken -- and you all, the administration, has taken military action in 10 different places in the world in 15 months, more than any president in U.S. history.
▶ 3:11:42Sen. Slotkin: I think president trump has really become a foreign policy president, and many of those operations, you know, were on the news for a couple of days, then the american public did not feel them. And I think the difference with this war with iran is that the american people is feeling it in their pocketbooks. Gas in michigan is $4.99 today, the cost of fertilizer, airline tickets, things that are real to people.
▶ 3:12:09Sen. Slotkin: Secretary hegseth, the president said that you are most seen on this war. He said you are the most gung ho about it. And I think despite us all wanting to come out of this successfully, it is hard to miss that we are at the stalemate, that we don't control the strait of hormuz because shipping is not getting through. And we can block what they are trying to get through, but nothing is moving, and it is costing the american public.
▶ 3:12:39Sen. Slotkin: And I think that is a fundamentally different moment than the rest of the military action we have taken. Even in middle east 101 class, we used to talk about and ron wargames on the strait of hormuz. It is a strategic geography got the iranians have. And it is just concerning to me that we, you know, we can try to tell the american people that it is going great and we are killing it, but until the strait of hormuz is open, I do not think we can credibly say that with any seriousness.
▶ 3:13:11Sen. Slotkin: The question I have for you, though, is future looking, and it is our 2026 elections. The president has been very clear. He said in a state of the union is that essentially if his side does not win, then the election was rigged. He said that before the 20 election -- 2020 election. He's asked for voter rolls for 29 different states. He's asked for detroit's votes or ballots.
▶ 3:13:38Sen. Slotkin: And we know that in 2020, he wrote an executive order that he did not sign that said, to the U.S. military, to the secretary of defense, you should go and seize ballots and voting machines. He said he regretted that he did not sign that executive order. The U.S. military has never been deployed. You incorrectly said yesterday that they were deployed during different elections.
▶ 3:14:06Sen. Slotkin: Governors deployed them under their authority is, but the federal government has never put the uniformed military at our polls, during world war ii, right after 9/11, we've never had to do that. So if the president who regrets not sunning that order in 2020 asks you to see ballots or voting machines in states during the 2026 election, will you stand up to the constitution and
▶ 3:14:37Sen. Slotkin: Say no or will you salute and do his bidding?
▶ 3:14:40Sec. Hegseth: Senator, I did not get a chance to answer the front part of your question. There was a lot of deferred maintenance under the biden administration, but it needed to be addressed because the world was in chaos.
▶ 3:14:54Sen. Slotkin: Address the election issue, the most important thing.
▶ 3:14:58Sec. Hegseth: Another gotcha hypothetical, your specialty. Under my administration -- under the biden administration and 2024 --
▶ 3:15:08Sen. Slotkin: It is not a hypothetical. You have said all the time, we have done this dance before, get over it. In 2020, the president, your boss comes a guy you are performing for right now, told journalists this year that he wished he signed that executive order to your predecessor. And your predecessor said publicly, thank god we did not actually go forward with it. You are the guy here in the seat. It is not hypothetical. Tell the american people, will you deploy that uniformed military to our post to collect voter rolls and machines?
▶ 3:15:40Sec. Hegseth: You are accusing me for performing, because you're performing to cable news right now. It is a hypothetical. By the way, 2024, under the biden administration, 15 states did deploy.
▶ 3:15:54Sen. Slotkin: Under the governor's orders. Trump did it, too, under trump. But it was not the federal decision. It was those governors of the states, under their authorities. It has never been done in our history. Please stand up for the constitution, do not send uniformed military to our polls.
▶ 3:16:15Chair Wicker: Do you have a response to that portion?
▶ 3:16:19Sec. Hegseth: I have never been ordered to do anything illegal, and I won't.
▶ 3:16:24Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator duckworth, you are recognized.
▶ 3:16:28Sen. Duckworth: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Despite his campaign promise of no new wars, president trump has been obsessed with using the military in a chance he gets, from deploying troops to american cities to propping up his chosen number two in venezuela, boat strikes in the caribbean sea, and now an illegal war with iran. Hundreds of thousands of troops are in harm's way every day with no exit strategy inside.
▶ 3:16:54Sen. Duckworth: This administration hides bad policy behind the exceptional military operations and the valor of our uniformed personnel. I have long said iran is a blind actor that a responsible administration would have managed this short of a conflict, instead of starting a war of choice. There was no imminent threat to the U.S. or our troops. The military was not the most effective to get iran to capitulate, as we are already seeing too clearly now.
▶ 3:17:19Sen. Duckworth: Using forces made americans in the middle east less safe while raising costs for americans at home, and 14 service members dead, hundreds wounded, billions in untold costs for military readiness. This administration claims to be focused on the war fighter, but president trump told us when he arounds -- announced they were from his luxury resort that he expected service members to die. Sadly, it is no clear how unserious trump is about his role as commander in chief.
▶ 3:17:45Sen. Duckworth: His war in iran has already reminded us how important it is to -- how serious it is to ask someone to wage this, how destructive a wide-ranging war can be for americans, service members, and how difficult it is to actually end one once you start it. The incompetence and casual disregard for our service members' professionalism and sacrifice is, in my opinion, a scandal.
▶ 3:18:11Sen. Duckworth: General caine, general caine, can you tell us the status of the iranian revolutionary guard corps's navy of actively closing the strait?
▶ 3:18:23Gen. Caine: Senators, apologies, I was listening but trying to write it down. Mostly destroyed. Centcom continues to watch them.
▶ 3:18:37Sen. Duckworth: Not the iranian navy, the irgc's.
▶ 3:18:41Gen. Caine: The smaller comofest, smaller boats, there are still some out there.
▶ 3:18:52Sen. Duckworth: This administration has been boasting of sinking the ships of the iranian navy, but let's call it what it is, misdirection. They want us to focus on the large iranian ships on the water to distract from the fact they have no plans for the second maybe iran owns. The irc g navy, not iranian navy, has been iran's tip of the sphere at the strait of hormuz, seizing vessels and threatening to target U.S. assets.
▶ 3:19:17Sen. Duckworth: Iran has long invested in this second asymmetrical navy, specifically to develop capabilities that would be difficult to target. Iran's advantage is well known, to anyone paying attention. I have no doubt that competent planners in the pentagon raised a quagmire in the strait to leadership. The question is, why leadership did not pay attention to their sound advice. The costs lives. Even if the strait reopens.
▶ 3:19:45Sen. Duckworth: This administration has created a new unsafe world by initiating and bungling this crisis. It will take a long time for the global economy to bounce back to normal trade flows, and iran has learned they can charge $1 million per ship, creating a new funding line for their malicious activity against americans for years to come. In the indo pacific, I don't doubt that if the worst day comes, our military will step up to the challenge and defend americans and our interests.
▶ 3:20:14Sen. Duckworth: Will they be asked to lay down their lives unnecessarily because the white house is incapable of preventing a crisis boiling into a were in the indo pacific? General caine, do you agree that significant interagency planning, action short of war, can be taken if a crisis occurs?
▶ 3:20:33Gen. Caine: I appreciate that question, you highlighting the importance of that. We have really great relationships now on the joint staff with the inter-agencies. I think our relationship, in particular, I will just pick the cia, I think it is the best it has ever been.
▶ 3:20:51Gen. Caine: We are really working hard to find the best in title x capabilities and the best of title 50 to ensure we deliver really entrepreneurial options for international policymakers to do what you are talking about, senator.
▶ 3:21:04Sen. Duckworth: Alright, but I am concerned because during a recent hearing I laid out the ways of the crisis and one of the flashpoints in the indo pacific, how could be devastating for service members, americans, and the economy. Since then, the administration has further diminished dod to prepare for these crises. As many of one third of the assets in the middle east are originally meant to be in the indo pacific. This war of choice is draining our military resources.
▶ 3:21:32Sen. Duckworth: We need leaders who do not follow one man's whims surrounding himself with yes-men. Thank you for your service, general. I can did -- I continue to look forward to working with you.
▶ 3:21:47Sen. Rosen: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you, ranking member read. Thank you, general for your service. Before I begin my questions for secretary hegseth, I have one brief important question for general caine. General, as you have acknowledged in your confirmation hearing, service members who served in locations which another U.S.
▶ 3:22:07Sen. Rosen: Government agency deems contaminated, like the nevada testing range, should have the same presumption of radiation exposure as doe employees who served alongside them. But we also must ensure that dod provides the v.a. With the records proving that these individuals served there. So this is a problem that dod has the power to solve. General caine, will you commit to ensuring parity for dod personnel who served in locations that the U.S.
▶ 3:22:38Sen. Rosen: Government has already deemed contaminated, identifying those who served in such locations, and providing documentation of that service to the v.a. So they can receive the veterans benefit that they have earned?
▶ 3:22:50Gen. Caine: You bet, ma'am. Since our last time together on this, we have continued to chip away at removing or figuring out how to get past that one particular blocking of that record so the data flows normally. I am committed to trying to solve that for those leaders and team members who were out there at that site.
▶ 3:23:13Sen. Rosen: Thank you. We look forward to continuing on that. Secretary hegseth, little on ai. Our service members deserve every advantage we can give them, so help me understand this. In february, the eve of operation epic fury, you publicly designated anthropic is a supply chain risk. However, this week it has been reported that the white house is now helping agencies get around this decision to access anthropic's technology.
▶ 3:23:40Sen. Rosen: So the administration cannot credibly make both claims simultaneously. Before I ask you about the inconsistency, I just want you to reconfirm what it is you plan to use this technology for. It has been publicly reported that the decision to lay more anthropic, and national security risk, was influenced by your personal and public contract dispute with anthropic come on the company said its technology cannot be used for a weapons targeting or messed -- the mass
▶ 3:24:12Sen. Rosen: Surveillance of americans. So following up from earlier, can you confirm whether or not there will always be a human in the loop when ai is used for lethal targeting decisions?
▶ 3:24:24Sec. Hegseth: First of all, on anthropic, they would not agree to our terms of service. That would be like boeing giving us airplanes and telling us we can shoot at.
▶ 3:24:34Sen. Rosen: It is not just about anthropic though.
▶ 3:24:37Sec. Hegseth: I want to be clear. Anthropic is also run by an ideological lunatic.
▶ 3:24:42Sen. Rosen: That is not my question. It is ai at.
▶ 3:24:46Sec. Hegseth: We follow the law, senator.
▶ 3:24:51Sen. Rosen: I am asking you to --
▶ 3:24:53Sec. Hegseth: We follow the law but do not have to's have different terms of agreement with anthropic.
▶ 3:24:57Sen. Rosen: It is not about anthropic, this is just an example. I want you to confirm that, whether or not, but there will always be a human in the loop when ai is used in the kill chain, for lethal targeting decisions? Will there be a human in the loop or will ai make the decision?
▶ 3:25:16Sec. Hegseth: We follow the law, and humans make decisions.
▶ 3:25:20Sen. Rosen: So you will confirm what you said to senator rounds, that a human will always be in the loop when ai is used?
▶ 3:25:28Sec. Hegseth: That is part of our terms of service anyway.
▶ 3:25:32Sen. Rosen: You know --
▶ 3:25:34Sec. Hegseth: It is how we operate.
▶ 3:25:35Sen. Rosen: All I want to say is this, there is a dod directive, a 3000.09, which mandates autonomous and semi-autonomous weapons system be designed to allow commanders and operators to exercise appropriate levels of human judgment over use of force. That is in the dod.
▶ 3:25:57Sec. Hegseth: That is why we follow the law.
▶ 3:25:59Chair Wicker: So the answer is yes.
▶ 3:26:01Sec. Hegseth: The answer is we follow the law, absolutely.
▶ 3:26:05Sen. Rosen: I think this is more important than following the law. I think people want to know that ai is not going to make lethal decisions.
▶ 3:26:12Sec. Hegseth: Ai is not making lethal decisions.
▶ 3:26:17Sen. Rosen: I have just a few seconds left. But you keep doubling down on this phrase, Mr. secretary, you compare journalists, compare us, compare so many to pharisees. It is a problematic and historically weaponized term that cast jewish communities as hypocritical or morally corrupt. You double down again and said it. Words matter. Words matter.
▶ 3:26:47Sen. Rosen: What you choose to say, how we choose to say it. How do you justify using this language as secretary of defense? It is a historically hurtful term. Why do you continue to use it? And what actions are you taking to prevent rhetoric like this from permeating throughout the department that will target specific groups or individuals of people based on their religion?
▶ 3:27:12Sec. Hegseth: Senator, I feel like it is a pretty accurate term for folks who do not see the plank in their own eye and always want to see what is wrong with an operation, as opposed to the historic success of preventing iran from getting a nuclear weapon. So I stand by it.
▶ 3:27:28Sen. Rosen: You stand by calling people pharisees. Sir, I cannot -- I cannot stand for that. That is wrong. It is not respectful to people. And I expect anyone who is in leadership in our country to be respectful and use respectful terms and not be an anti-semite.
▶ 3:27:50Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator rosen. The chair and the ranking member have no second-round questions. I am told by senator kelly that he would like to ask a second question.
▶ 3:28:07Sen. Kelly: Yeah, Mr. secretary, $1.5 trillion, 1.5 is a very round number. If you are putting together a budget, you come up with these are the problems we are trying to solve, this is the capability we need, these are the systems we have to buy. And at the end of the day, it would spit out a number that is probably not 1.5 trillion. To me, it feels like that number is kind of pulled out of thin air.
▶ 3:28:38Sen. Kelly: I took a look recently, and it seems that the defense budget of the rest of the world, talking china, russia, india, every asian country, every european country, south america, everybody else is in the neighborhood of 1.7 to 1.8, so your request is approaching alt defense spending from everybody else with the exception of us. That is a huge amount of money.
▶ 3:29:09Sen. Kelly: When I got here just five years ago, it was almost half of that. Through budget reconciliation, you received a bunch of money to buy things, some of the weapons systems, to resupply what we need. I am just trying to understand, like, where is all this money going to go, and if you figured out ahead of time, what you want to spend this on?
▶ 3:29:39Sen. Kelly: By the way, there are systems the president wants. You know, he saw last summer how effective iron dome and david sling were. Because of that, the president decided we are going to build our own version and call it golden dome, because the president likes the color gold. We have seen that. We see it in the oval office.
▶ 3:30:03Sen. Kelly: We're going to call it golden dome, and it might cost somewhere between $500 billion and $1 trillion. I have heard those estimates. By the way, I know a little bit about intercepting stuff. In space, it is really hard.
▶ 3:30:17Sen. Kelly: And the physics on this offense, there are some things in that program that I think is really important that we do and try to figure it out, but space-based interceptors to hit multiple targets -- and by the way, it is important how you size the system. So, I am trying to understand, Mr.
▶ 3:30:37Sen. Kelly: Secretary, what kind of detail did you guys -- did you work out a detailed plan, and at the end of the day, it just happens to come out to be $1.5 trillion?
▶ 3:30:50Sec. Hegseth: Senator, the exact amount is actually $1.535 trillion, and it was a highly rigorous process throughout our department. Commanders with our comptroller, deputy secretary, the chairman, and myself, and the budget reflects the realities of the world we live in and the capabilities we need. That is why there is $65 billion for shipbuilding, one hundred $20 billion for defense industrial base. For munitions, quality of life, $71 billion on the nuclear dig.
▶ 3:31:21Sec. Hegseth: You name it, we are investing in it. The biggest reason is the underinvestment of the biden administration. What they spent on defense, the continued resolutions and others, undercut the build up that president trump had created. Yes, we're doing a lot of deferred maintenance here around the world and in our department, and this budget reflects it. It is a generational commitment to the security of the american people. It the rest of the world will not spend it on their defense, that is their fault.
▶ 3:31:48Sec. Hegseth: The american department of war will invest in properly defending the country.
▶ 3:31:56Sen. Kelly: I have always been supportive of defense spending. After 25 years in the navy, I want to make sure our folks have what they need. I think you should go back and take a look and see if there are places where we are making investments that we actually do not need. There are some systems out there -- I mean, we are constantly looking in trying to balance, do we want 47, which I have been supportive of, be 21, also supportive.
▶ 3:32:22Sen. Kelly: Then we want to make all these other investments in really inexpensive, low cost munitions, because we suddenly realized that the expensive stuff, even through b21, we maybe cannot get close enough. The idea between those as we can penetrate further into the bubble. So there is some conflict there.
▶ 3:32:47Sen. Kelly: So I am just encouraging you to go back and see, you know, if there are some systems where we can bring that number, the overall number, down. Because as I look at what the department is trying to field, some of this stuff, in my judgment, and I know others might have another opinion, some of this stuff we either don't need or it is not going to work. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 3:33:12Chair Wicker: Your time has expired. Let me just say we have had a great deal of expertise in the area of space, and we do look forward to your contribution as we mark up further legislation. Senator blumenthal, I understand you have a follow-up.
▶ 3:33:28Sen. Blumenthal: Yes, first of all, I want to thank you, Mr. secretary, for your support for the star act which is tremendously significant. I am committed to getting it done as soon as possible. At least before veterans day. And I look forward to your help in accomplishing that goal. I want to thank you for your support.
▶ 3:33:57Sen. Blumenthal: I'm sure america is grateful for the perspective there. I have talked to many of the combatant commanders about lessons learned from ukraine. And I think that there is unanimity on the point that there is a lot to be learned, not only about what the russians are doing but what other
▶ 3:34:27Sen. Blumenthal: Adversaries can do, as well. General caine, chairman kaine, would you agree that there are lessons to be learned from ukraine?
▶ 3:34:36Gen. Caine: You bet. You bet, senator. There's lessons learned from everywhere. That is really the culture of our joint force right now, to make sure that across the globe any time we are in contact with the enemy, we are going back and determining what we can learn from that.
▶ 3:34:52Gen. Caine: A big one, if you will allow me, a big one is mass and simultaneity, something the secretary has taken a strong role in making sure we are doing that through drone evaluations and things like that moving forward.
▶ 3:35:11Sen. Blumenthal: Following up on the question I asked earlier, my last question. The president said yesterday that his view is after his conversation with vladimir putin that ukraine has been "militarily defeated." in your professional judgment, has ukraine been militarily defeated?
▶ 3:35:33Gen. Caine: Sir, I have not seen the president's quote, but I will go back to something I started with. That is the importance of me maintaining trust with a variety of people. And a president will make a wide-ranging of comments and considerations, he is commander-in-chief --
▶ 3:35:57Sen. Blumenthal: You do not have to go that much farther. I understand.
▶ 3:36:01Gen. Caine: Thank you, sir.
▶ 3:36:02Sen. Blumenthal: In my view, ukraine has not been militarily defeated, but what I was trying to make as a point is to the secretary, there is a false narrative. Based on my last visit to ukraine, which was my ninth, my conversation not only with president zelenskyy but with our own military on the ground, as well as our intelligence community.
▶ 3:36:30Sen. Blumenthal: In fact, ukraine arguably is winning. There is this false narrative, russia is winning. Putin wants that false narrative to be our official narrative. I'm not putting words in your mouth, and you do not have to respond. I understand reasons not to.
▶ 3:36:45Sen. Blumenthal: But the american people should know that the president of the united states is undermining our security, because ukraine is holding the line against vladimir putin, who will keep going against moldova, which I also visited on my last trip, against our nato allies.
▶ 3:37:06Sen. Blumenthal: And we still have an obligation under article five to come to their defense, just as they did after 9/11, as king charles so eloquently reminded us. In my view is, in this observation is hardly novel, that china is watching what we're doing in ukraine. Would you agree?
▶ 3:37:30Gen. Caine: Sure, I would agree that china is watching everywhere and carefully thinking about what their force posture and approach would be. And I think they are learning a variety of things to include the tenacity and grit of the joint force around things we have been ordered to do over the last year.
▶ 3:37:51Sen. Blumenthal: If they see weakness in our response to russia and ukraine, that will affect the deterrence of their possibly moving against one of our allies or partners in the far east. Let me finally ask Mr. hearst, your estimate of $25 billion, would you share with us what that estimate is based on?
▶ 3:38:18Gen. Hurst: Yeah, we can work to get you the product details if you would like.
▶ 3:38:25Sen. Blumenthal: Finally, Mr. secretary, is there going to be a report on the bombing of the school in the first day or so of the war? You were asked about it yesterday. I am wondering whether you have more detailed response you can share with us?
▶ 3:38:41Sec. Hegseth: As I have said, that is under investigation. A general officer from outside the chain of command has been reviewing it, and it is still within the parameters of the investigation.
▶ 3:38:52Sen. Blumenthal: Will there be a pollutant -- preliminary report in the next few weeks or do you have the timing?
▶ 3:38:58Sec. Hegseth: I do not have a time estimate for you. Right now, it is within the rigors of the length of time that is normal for these investigations.
▶ 3:39:08Sen. Blumenthal: I asked because in your final response to senator gillibrand, you said that great care is taken to avoid civilian casualties and it would be profoundly significant if that report were made available and it showed the commitment to avoiding civilian casualties and learning lessons from it. The statement there.
▶ 3:39:33Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator blumenthal. This concludes today's hearing. I think the witnesses for the testimony. Questions for the record will be due to the committee within two business days of the conclusion of the hearing. We are adjourned.