▶ 0:18:25>> senator gillibrand is in route. We will wait a minute for her. I will do my opening remarks until she gets here. Welcome and thank you all for being here. We certainly want to thank the secretary for being here. We will get started and try to stay on schedule for everyone today. I'm pleased to be joined by chair collins and vice chair murray will be here soon.
▶ 0:18:58We reviewed the fiscal year 2027 budget. The request for the department of housing and urban development. Thank you for being here and hopefully we can get you down to mississippi for a football game in the near future. I want to extend that invitation to you. As we kicked off the appropriations process the committee finds itself in a familiar position of uncertainty.
▶ 0:19:26There is no topline agreement in place to set the parameters across the subcommittees yet. We are also waiting to see if cbo will share the optimism regarding fha. Adding to this years uncertainty the subcommittee will no longer be able to rely on funding to help address some of the transportation needs facing our nation.
▶ 0:19:53This means the housing challenges and economic development needs of communities across the country must be balanced again with competing demands in the transportation space especially the aviation safety space. To begin funding that ballads we have the department of housing and urban development. The request is 73.5 million dollars compared to 84.2 billion for the current funding levels.
▶ 0:20:26Within this proposed funding level is the elimination of the population -- popular home programs. The cdbg program enjoys strong bipartisan support with low and moderate income communities across the country. This is central resource for central government relies at the heart of the community development.
▶ 0:20:52At a time when there is an increase of the supply of affordable housing the home program serves a critical role with financing tax credits in support of rehabilitation for low income homeowners.
▶ 0:21:11I again find myself disagreeing over the proposal to eliminate the shop programs which local nonprofit capacity and use sweat equity models to promote homeownership. You have previously spoken of the importance of patient capital and the intent of the context of the opportunity zones .
▶ 0:21:38I believe the self-sufficiency programs are another example of this belief. The investment of breaking cycles of poverty and government dependency through the family self-sufficient programs is a patient capital. That is transforming lives. I'm disappointed to once again see omb propose the elimination of programs.
▶ 0:22:06Within the overall 2027 request the underfunding maintains your maintenance costs that will need to be addressed. It should be noted that the majority of households benefiting with disabled in single-parent households.
▶ 0:22:26Setting aside the question of funding levels I appreciate the funding request begins the conversation around how to best maintain the viability of the programs. The proposals largely fall outside the jurisdiction of the subcommittee and it remains to be seen how the authorizing committees will incorporate those ideas.
▶ 0:22:54The program improvements hud that could undertaking now. The lessons of the moving door program are not just around the ideas. There is the body of work on streamlining programs and operation management. The back office work I encourage hud as quickly as possible to incorporate into a larger pool of pha's that do not have mt status.
▶ 0:23:21I also continue to encourage the department to resolve the covid era 30 day notice to vacate the proposed rule. I am pleased to see the request continues to support the melania trump foster youth to independence initiative. An initiative first funded by chair collins.
▶ 0:23:44This funding ensures foster care at the risk of home was they have access to a section eight voucher to help stabilize their housing situation. The request also continues funding for the payment integrity initiative to help ensure taxpayer funds are used appropriately.
▶ 0:24:08I understand and share the administration's concern about rising costs across government spending. Funding decisions should be guided by fiscal responsibility and the liberation. The committee stands ready to work with the department for the path forward to improve program efficiency.
▶ 0:24:33Reducing undue regulatory burdens and lowering housing production costs are where congress and the administration could identify early success to build on. Just enough to require multiple reviews for the exact same projects. The department has flexibility it should use and should bring to our attention any solutions it identifies that require congressional action.
▶ 0:25:03The waiver process needs to be clarified and it needs to be improved. This will require coordination between hud and omb. Clear timelines -- timelines could result in this being built rather than staring into the black hole of the federal bureaucracy.
▶ 0:25:31While there is no simple right approach to increasing housing production, facilitating the increased use of nontraditional building processes and materials such as mass timber that I am a big fan of is a critical component of any solution that will be successful. I look forward to working with ranking member gillibrand and our colleagues. One that serves the needs of americans across the country.
▶ 0:26:03Secretary turner once again, thank you for appearing before the committee today. I look forward to your testimony into continuing these important conversations. I now tend to ranking member gillibrand.
▶ 0:26:18Sen. Gillibrand: I really enjoyed working with you in the appropriations bill earlier this year. I look forward to continuing our strong working relationship. Thank you secretary turner. Your request for the department of housing and urban development. I don't have to tell you because you have traveled around the country working people are doing everything right.
▶ 0:26:42Sen. Gillibrand: They are working longer hours, they are raising families and they are serving in their communities. More and more americans can't afford a safe place to live. Young people cannot afford to buy their first home. Seniors are being priced out of communities they help build. Showing up in shelters at record rates.
▶ 0:27:08Sen. Gillibrand: Teachers, nurses, firefighters, veterans are struggling to pay rent to the neighborhoods where they work. The proposed budget only makes the problem worse. It would result in less affordable housing around the country for hundreds of thousands of families.
▶ 0:27:25Sen. Gillibrand: The budget eliminates key programs that our state, local governments, faith-based not for profits rely on each day to house, feed, protect our most vulnerable neighbors. Housing affordability is not just an economic issue, it is a moral issue. Stable housing affects everything, your child's education.
▶ 0:27:55Sen. Gillibrand: Your ability to build wealth and your faith in the future. They have too often been treated as an afterthought. Instead of investing $200 billion, fully prepare and modernize every single public unit in new york.
▶ 0:28:21Sen. Gillibrand: And build over 100,000 affordable housing units in new york city. Instead of muting this crisis with the seriousness and work that is needed, this administration has chosen chaos.
▶ 0:28:38Sen. Gillibrand: Whether it's through intentional dysfunction or dismantling core programs for the most vulnerable people, the ripple effects of that chaos alone is hurting our ability to do the one thing we all agree on, building more housing. The pursuit of tariffs increase the cost of building homes, these policies are driving up costs and delaying projects.
▶ 0:29:13Sen. Gillibrand: Now the administration's immigration policies are reducing the workforce that literally builds american homes. Every provider I have worked with is telling me they are experiencing more uncertainty than ever before. There is nothing that begs an investor's life less than uncertainty. It is getting more expensive and stalling.
▶ 0:29:42Sen. Gillibrand: Investigators and underwriters are requiring reserve funds and adding other real costs because they no longer have faith in the administration and hud. What should we be doing instead? First we need massive national commitment to building more housing, affordable housing, workforce housing, starter homes.
▶ 0:30:08Sen. Gillibrand: We need rental assistance, home and housing to continue to build the deeply affordable housing that is most scarce in our country. We need to support local governments committed to reducing barriers to building more housing so our constituents could live near transits, jobs, schools. We need a fully funded and fully functional hud.
▶ 0:30:36Sen. Gillibrand: When hud cannot process grants efficiently, affordable housing processed all and get more, not less expensive. When it can't quickly turn down funds, thousands of new yorkers agonize over falling into homelessness in a matter of just a few short months. When hud ignores the law nonprofits are left waiting for funds for months.
▶ 0:31:06Sen. Gillibrand: Faced with a host of terrible choices, taking out costly loans, cutting back services, laying off staff or closing altogether. When they can't enforce antidiscrimination laws families, seniors, individuals with disabilities suffer. When hud is falling down on its responsibility to address mold, vermin, other hazards, the health, education, and future of our children are jeopardized.
▶ 0:31:39Sen. Gillibrand: Housing is foundational to a strong economy. People can't afford to live where they live, the economy weekends. If families spend half of their income on rent they cannot save, they cannot start a business. Young americans believe homeownership is permanently out of reach. We have upward mobility and the american dream itself. America is capable of solving these big problems, we have done it before.
▶ 0:32:12Sen. Gillibrand: It requires leadership grounded in, compassion, facts, not scapegoating or dismantling the very institutions and programs that are responsible for helping people. This requires investment, ones that the committee is willing to make. I want to work together to solve these problems. Your fiscal budget does not meet this moment.
▶ 0:32:39Sen. Gillibrand: I look forward to hearing from you and thank you for your leadership and dedication.
▶ 0:32:45Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you. Now we will turn to Mr. secretary.
▶ 0:32:52Sec. Turner: Good morning, everyone. Thank you. This distinguished committee of members, I really appreciate you and this opportunity to testify under the 2027 budget and what it means for the department of housing and urban development. We remain on a simple principle. It must be within reach.
▶ 0:33:22Sec. Turner: That requires affordability, stewardship, a shared ability between hud and congress. Taxpayer dollars are finite. Their proposal -- proposal reflects that approach. It stops the blooming of federal welfare programs and continues the mission minded progress on serving the american people.
▶ 0:33:45Sec. Turner: It proposes to end the block grant program which was created to revitalize urban communities but has lost focus and supports activities like equity officers in chicago and requirements in massachusetts tied to d.e.I. Initiatives. It allows us to focus on programs that directly impact housing and affordability.
▶ 0:34:13Sec. Turner: The president's proposal reinforces the commitment to the intent of the fair housing act rather than the activities that are anything but fair. We will enforce the law as it is about equal rights but not about extra rights. On homelessness, the data is clear. Hud surged by more than 50%. Homelessness rose by about 20% since 2020.
▶ 0:34:39Sec. Turner: Despite record funding, communities reported record homelessness. I have raised concerns about the housing first model and approach which fails to address underlying causes of homelessness such as substance abuse and mental illness. The industrial complex that simply warehouses the homeless. Compassion requires results. Not just resources. Hud will address root causes and pathways to self-sufficiency.
▶ 0:35:10Sec. Turner: Prevalent plan reinforces hud's commitment to stewardship of taxpayer dollars that serve our nation's most vulnerable people. The budget secures $30 million for the melania trump foster youth initiative. There are 20,000 young americans who rage out -- aged out of foster care annually. I have already directly heard from foster youth.
▶ 0:35:38Sec. Turner: They are asking for tools to achieve independence. They are helping their peers break the cycle and provide a brighter future for themselves. Giving a handout is not empowering. That is why the president is proposing working requirements of 20 hours per week along with five year time limits for able-bodied americans. It helps those graduate from government assistance and make room for americans on wait lists.
▶ 0:36:11Sec. Turner: The budget includes 160 million dollars for federal housing administration, contracts that help americans with sustainable homeownership opportunities. In december we published the fiscal year 2025 financial report that uncovered $5 billion under the biden administration. Accountability is not optional. It is a fundamental public trust. We are making hud more efficient.
▶ 0:36:43Sec. Turner: The federal building to alexandria. The weaver building had deteriorated beyond cost-effective repair with more than 500 million dollars in delinquent and deferred payment and over $22 million in annual operating costs. Hud is saving taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars while providing employees with a safe and collaborative workspace.
▶ 0:37:09Sec. Turner: The budget clears 30 million dollars for program integrity initiative or a unified grant system which will build on the reported pilot to support allowances and identified proper payment so we could verify waste, fraud, abuse. This administration hud has delivered since january 2025, one point 2 million households reported 70% beyond first-time buyers.
▶ 0:37:39Sec. Turner: This is what first time focus and discipline policy could achieve. It builds on the progress and brings discipline to regulation, strengthens accountability and reinforces the mission. We are focused on results. This positions hud to lead a renaissance of revitalization. One that increases supply, expands access and delivers real opportunity. It is my honor to be here with you all this morning. Thank you.
▶ 0:38:10Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you, very much. Now we will go to questions and I recognize senator collins.
▶ 0:38:19Sen. Collins: Thank you very much. Mr. secretary, welcome. All of us agree that we should collaborate toward the goal of increasing housing supply.
▶ 0:38:35Sen. Collins: The lack of affordable housing holds back both community and economic development as well as family stability and work force stte availability -- workforce availability.
▶ 0:38:53Sen. Collins: There are too many police officers, firefighters, teachers , police officers who cannot afford to live in or near the communities that they are employed. Economic development is also strengthened I realized by the objectives of the build america by america act.
▶ 0:39:22Sen. Collins: Unfortunately hud's implementation stands in the way far too often of building affordable housing. In march, a newspaper reported 10 names of prospects -- projects that would add 400 units of affordable housing were fully permitted and ready to go except that they lacked waivers.
▶ 0:39:53Sen. Collins: Although it excludes privately owned homes such as multi family housing properties from the definition of infrastructure, it continues to find projects with five or more units as public infrastructure. Hud's waiver process relies on the individual project-based waivers rather than product based.
▶ 0:40:23Sen. Collins: A review of the waiver submitted reveals multiple waiver requests for heat pumps and hvac systems. Cases where there are simply not compliant production.
▶ 0:40:40Sen. Collins: Developers in maine shared with me that while it will be a great use of a product specific waiver , they are instead required to resubmit waiver requests for the very same parts and components for each individual project. That results in months long delays.
▶ 0:41:06Sen. Collins: It leads to unmanageable cost increases. It could place financing through tax credits at risk. It feels like hud's waiver process is the black hole where portable housing dies.
▶ 0:41:26Sen. Collins: What could you do to streamline and improve this process so it is not an obstacle to building affordable housing?
▶ 0:41:36Sec. Turner: Thank you. When we came into this administration we inherited a broken system. There were no processes in place so that we could process these waivers and streamline the system. Our team has been working hard every day to make sure we could streamline this process. Listen to your impact.
▶ 0:42:06Sec. Turner: You know the president, we source materials here in america. We want to streamline this process. We are working hard to get these systems in place. Happy to work with you and take your advice on this.
▶ 0:42:33Sen. Collins: Enabling seniors to age in place is critical for their health and well-being. Accommodating their preferences, it also helps the stability of local communities and it is much less expensive than moving an older adult to and assisted living facility. Maine is the oldest state in the nation by median age.
▶ 0:43:06Sen. Collins: I have authored the program with the chairwoman's position years ago at hud for low-cost, low barrier high-impact modifications that simply would allow seniors to remain in their own homes. Often times these are minor low-cost modifications.
▶ 0:43:38Sen. Collins: As well as in some cases, bigger modifications such as replacing an existing bathtub with a walk-in tub or building it outside. All of these however are far less expensive and far more accommodating to the older person's wishes then moving into an assisted living facility.
▶ 0:44:06Sen. Collins: They want to remain in their own homes if possible. Unfortunately in the case of replacing tubs in existing homes I'm talking about or anchoring wheelchair ramps on existing property footprints, they have determined these activities require environmental reviews.
▶ 0:44:29Sen. Collins: Once again they result in time delays, cost increases, discourages proven strategies that help our seniors remain in their own homes. To correct this problem I have included language in the fiscal year 2026 bill to ensure the improvements were not subject to a reasonable environmental review.
▶ 0:44:55Sen. Collins: I also included working with our colleagues to adjust the cap on the cost of home modifications to account for annual changes in the cost of labor and materials. Mr. secretary, do you support these important common sense improvements and will they be fully implemented as part of the next funding competition.
▶ 0:45:27Sec. Turner: I understand and do appreciate your priority and your care for us and your citizens. We want to make sure we are providing as much flexibility as we can to make sure our seniors are taken care of.
▶ 0:45:47Sec. Turner: We do look forward and continue working with you on this to make sure our seniors in particular are taking care of.
▶ 0:46:00Sen. Collins: Thank you.
▶ 0:46:01Sen. Hyde-Smith: Senator gillibrand is recognized.
▶ 0:46:09Secco -- Sen. Gillibrand: We have a lot of shared goals. I listen to your opening statement about those shared goals. I just don't agree with how you are getting there. I get it to say we don't want to fund programs if they aren't working well enough. If they are not moving people to where they need to be. I fully understand that. I would like to see the results.
▶ 0:46:37Secco -- Sen. Gillibrand: If your way not funding all these programs is better than the way they have tried to address homelessness over decades, I want to see the results, where is the homeless data report? It is over a year late. That will give us the data to see if your theory actually works.
▶ 0:47:01Sec. Turner: We do share some of these values. We have had a great working relationship. The point in time in the biden administration says we have 770,000 people in america that were homeless at one time. We have record funding. We have an increase.
▶ 0:47:32Sen. Gillibrand: What is your record? Do we have 700,000 home was still? Is it one million? I get you want to do things differently. This committee will support you as long as the goals are good. The report is delayed over a year.
▶ 0:47:55Sec. Turner: Can I offer this to you?
▶ 0:47:59Sen. Gillibrand: I don't want to hear about what you don't like about the biden administration. Let's see the results.
▶ 0:48:05Sec. Turner: I thank god I'm in charge so we can do some different. The employees before were failing. I have been here a little bit over a year. You had for years.
▶ 0:48:19Sen. Gillibrand: Start talking about your record. This is so inaccurate, unhelpful, and doesn't let this committee do our jobs.
▶ 0:48:32Sec. Turner: The report would be out if we didn't have an unprecedented government shutdown. If we were in constant litigation we would be out. Hud's, we have a great team. We move expeditiously.
▶ 0:48:46Sen. Gillibrand: I think you are of you skating. What way does litigation slow down your report?
▶ 0:48:54Sec. Turner: A government shutdown helps us to not be able to work. Tell me about the litigation. It would be out right now if we did not have a government shutdown. During the biden administration, record funding.
▶ 0:49:10Sen. Gillibrand: It's like two children saying I didn't do it, my brother did it. Stop with the excuses. Explain your record.
▶ 0:49:20Sec. Turner: We have to do something different.
▶ 0:49:24Sen. Gillibrand: Switch topics. After you are gone it's too late for the families that are suffering in new york today. You know what it's like to be a homeless little girl who has to have a girl scout troop just for other homeless little girls because that is all they have?
▶ 0:49:46Sec. Turner: I do understand. It has happened in my family. I'm talking to you about what I know. The housing first model failed. Record funding. I don't care what administration it is. You would not run your own household budget this way.
▶ 0:50:09Sen. Gillibrand: You have been in charge over a year, I want to see results.
▶ 0:50:12Sec. Turner: Why is this ok for the american taxpayer?
▶ 0:50:18Sen. Gillibrand: We agree that one of the programs that we think does work is being able to provide vouchers. Tenant protection vouchers. Will hud issued guidance for these tenant protection vouchers?
▶ 0:50:34Sec. Turner: My team has ensured me we will take care of those in need.
▶ 0:50:41Sen. Gillibrand: Will you wish the guidance?
▶ 0:50:43Sec. Turner: We will take care of those in need. My team has assured me. If you want more information, we have been assured we will take care of those tenants.
▶ 0:50:56Sen. Gillibrand: You made a promise, you will take care of them. You don't want to use the vouchers is what I hear you are saying.
▶ 0:51:02Sec. Turner: I did not say that.
▶ 0:51:06Sen. Gillibrand: Let me know, we would like the vouchers to be used. I would like to know within the next few months that you have done so.
▶ 0:51:13Sec. Turner: Thank you.
▶ 0:51:16Sen. Hyde-Smith: Secretary turner, I have always been interested. Across the country we discuss many times insufficient housing and rising costs contributed to the growing housing crisis.
▶ 0:51:36Sen. Hyde-Smith: Tackling housing affordability successfully requires producing more housing which in turn involves a combination of local zoning, decisions, as well as scaling up the use of nontraditional buildings when it comes to the use of mass timbre. Multifamily housing is demonstrating the ability to lower construction costs and reduce the time it takes to build. Which makes an ideal for increasing housing production throughout the country.
▶ 0:52:07Sen. Hyde-Smith: I am concerned that most of the conversation is happening as a resource management issue at usda service and we are missing an opportunity on the housing side to promote and incorporate the use.
▶ 0:52:25Sen. Hyde-Smith: How could hud better collaborate for service university and mostly important builders and developers for family housing a more mainstream building choice?
▶ 0:52:41Sec. Turner: I'm familiar with the project. Working with the secretary of agriculture, we are more willing to do so to make sure the use of this, which is a great product I am familiar with, I'm happy to hear your suggestions.
▶ 0:53:06Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you for that. I was very proud to join the first lady in supporting the housing needs exiting foster care so they are not forced into homelessness. We have seen this so many times across college campuses and other places. I would be remiss not to acknowledge the transformative role chair collins has played in this initiative and the broader response to youth homelessness.
▶ 0:53:36Sen. Hyde-Smith: Ensuring successful partnerships with child welfare agencies providing housing support without creating dependency is an approach we should try and replicate as often as possible. Your budget request includes proposals to allow for the reallocation of funds that no longer have an identified need based on the conversations and roundtables, could you explain
▶ 0:54:06Sen. Hyde-Smith: Why these changes are needed?
▶ 0:54:10Sec. Turner: It has been a great privilege to travel around and partner with yourself and other members. Taking care of our foster youth as they age out. I say many of them end up homeless. We want to make sure those foster youth in need of those vouchers, every state is different.
▶ 0:54:39Sec. Turner: Some states use more, others use less. We have been working in collaboration with the office and first lady to make sure they are taking care of.
▶ 0:54:48Sen. Hyde-Smith: As you know, successful affordable housing projects often need to take advantage of multiple funding and financing resources to get the overall picture done. There are many ways to get there. They could look different in any circumstance. This could take the form of grants, loans, tax credits.
▶ 0:55:14Sen. Hyde-Smith: As a former executive director of the revitalization council during president trump's first term, I know you are deeply familiar with one of the better ways to incentivize investment. Opportunity zones. These opportunity zones are almost exclusively census tracts that include low income communities with lower property rates, median incomes, and a greater need for revitalization.
▶ 0:55:53Sen. Hyde-Smith: I am curious to hear from you how the opportunity zone designation and combinations of other funding financing sources could increase the affordability supply for states like mine.
▶ 0:56:07Sec. Turner: Thank you for your question. Opportunity zones have been transformative. The simple of it is public-private partnerships make the opportunity zone successful. As it pertains to operating businesses and creating more affordable homes. They are crucial and key.
▶ 0:56:33Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you for putting those pieces together. That is so critical. Thank you for that answer. Senator murray, you are recognized for your questions.
▶ 0:56:46Sen. Murray: Addressing the homeless crisis is a top priority for my state and many states across the country and I am really concerned because your department has ignored the law. Hud is required to prioritize proven strategies to reduce homelessness including permanent supportive rehousing.
▶ 0:57:12Sen. Murray: Last year you limited our local governments use of federal grants for those exact proven solutions. At least until a federal judge and congress stop you. In my state you could have kept the federal funding for those who are homeless by more than half. Nationwide they are more than 170,000 households on the street. We want to renew grants and get this money out the door.
▶ 0:57:44Sen. Murray: They are still critical -- waiting too long. Could you admit to us that you will move quickly with what expires this year as required by the language in our 2026 appropriations bill?
▶ 0:57:58Sec. Turner: Thank you. Good to see you again. We have quarter one and quarter to funds out. Quarter three and four will also go out.
▶ 0:58:12Sen. Murray: From last year?
▶ 0:58:12Sec. Turner: Yes. We do have a different approach to this. I believe the housing first model is failed model. Part of it to house people is important but we cannot stop there. We have to get the root of housing and homelessness. That is mental addiction, drug addiction. We have to treat people, get them transformed and back out to a life of sustainability.
▶ 0:58:40Sen. Murray: Our bill requires you to get this money out. I will tell you all of the day that, all of the research shows economic factors are driving homelessness. It is not because of housing first. It is hard to believe that those with the least struggle the most. Housing first is an housing only.
▶ 0:59:09Sen. Murray: There is case management, substance use, employment services. It is really important that we don't demonize the people who are struggling today for very real reasons and work on building more housing. Let me move on. I know your leadership.
▶ 0:59:35Sen. Murray: Local governments and nonprofits , they are left to navigate people. The grant physicians, a housing provider because they don't believe trans people exist. Federal court prohibited you from enforcing the grant positions. You will put positions into entities with these grant funds.
▶ 1:00:06Sen. Murray: How exactly is that complying with the court's order?
▶ 1:00:11Sec. Turner: We will be in accordance with every order and we will enforce and uphold the law. That is my job as secretary to ensure that we are enforcing the fair housing act.
▶ 1:00:35Sen. Murray: I don't see how these are implying with the court order. I want you to know that our nonprofits who are trying to serve these communities, it is their goal and they are wasting a lot of time today that shifting legal landscape from requirements out there. You have recused to sign agreements or opportunities for funds that expire five months from now.
▶ 1:01:04Sen. Murray: What it feels like to everybody out there, all of this comes after you pushed out over one third of hud employees last year. There is less people to get these grants out. You are breaking the department not making sure people get this.
▶ 1:01:20Sec. Turner: If I may and I have to correct you, we did not push out anyone. We had people leave voluntary. It was voluntarily and people took it, the people that want to be at hud are at hud. Also the government shutdown has kept us from getting these numbers out. Our team is working tirelessly every day to get these out and we will.
▶ 1:01:49Sec. Turner: We have an adequate sufficient well working team.
▶ 1:01:53Sen. Murray: There are people at your department that want to talk about it. A lot of people to not get there grants.
▶ 1:02:01Sec. Turner: It is not because of our people.
▶ 1:02:06Sen. Murray: We have a disagreement. You said in your opening statement the taxpayer dollars are finite. President trump's own budget sends more funding through the roof. Instead of blowing half $1 trillion more on war funding I want to ask you if we were doing that how many more units of housing could be billed?
▶ 1:02:26Sec. Turner: The president is very intentional and very precise on what his national security directors are. Housing and affordability with all due respect. My job is to run hud. I hear from industry experts, the regulatory environment are crippled.
▶ 1:02:54Sen. Murray: You have a different view than I do. If we use that money for housing we could build 1.1 million affordable housing units. That is a huge dent in the 7 million units of housing you yourself say our country needs. You actually cut housing. Could you help more families with housing with $84 billion or with $73.5 billion?
▶ 1:03:20Sec. Turner: In the previous years before we got here, housing affordability was not at an all-time high.
▶ 1:03:33Sen. Murray: I'm asking you for the facts.
▶ 1:03:34Sec. Turner: Mortgage rates were up, insurance was up, it was crippling. These are the facts.
▶ 1:03:50Sen. Murray: I'm asking you about what you could do with this and how we could address the number one issue facing any of my constituents. The answer is you could do a lot more work with families and housing with funding that went to housing and not $1.5 trillion. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:04:12Sen. Crapo: -- Sen. capito: I know your compassion for all kinds of people, particularly those who could least afford, don't know how and need assistance. I know you are working day and night to make sure those folks are taking care of. The bureaucracy and regulatory issues. I want to talk about the fha.
▶ 1:04:45Sen. Crapo: Within your existing authority, without new legislation, are there maybe three changes you could implement in the next 12 months to make fha multifamily financing, faster, simpler, less costly?
▶ 1:04:59Sec. Turner: Yes. We are taking inventory of every program at hud including fha. Our number one deal is to secure the market and make sure it is strong. Anticipating any foreclosures to make sure our staff is up to date. We have a team that has done a tremendous job. What we are doing now is really streamlining the processes.
▶ 1:05:33Sec. Turner: For our constituency and clients with the fees that make it harder to get the loan. These are the things we are working on currently.
▶ 1:05:49Sen. Capito: This would take out some of the cost. What are you doing to evaluate the possibility of that?
▶ 1:06:01Sec. Turner: I have heard the arguments on both sides. I've heard the arguments for keeping at the same and changing it. We have a brilliant team. These are things that we talked about as a team, a decision has not been made. My number one priority is to make sure it is secure and fha is strong to be prepared for the fluctuation in our market.
▶ 1:06:31Sen. Capito: Servicers are facing liquidity constraints. The question is are there funding or operational or technological constraints limiting your ability to get those outstanding taxes and insurance advances out quicker?
▶ 1:06:51Sec. Turner: We are streamlining our processes. We want to get our team on this.
▶ 1:07:07Sen. Capito: I want to talk about cbdg. While it has zeroed out we mentioned fraud and ineffectiveness. I could tell you where I sit it has been an effective program. We used it for infrastructure upgrades. I think it is interesting here, it says this program was created to revitalize urban communities.
▶ 1:07:35Sen. Capito: I don't think I have one urban community. We have one or two above 50,000. I am talking rural america here. We have used them to help the community directly and it creates jobs and drives long-term growth. How do you think you are going to replace this funding and you know you will be good stewards of the american taxpayer dollar.
▶ 1:08:05Sen. Capito: This has been an effective program.
▶ 1:08:07Sec. Turner: I have talked to some of your colleagues in the house. Some states do better in others. The program has been used for its intended purpose. We have a lot of complex programs that we work with. We focus on these programs carrying out that mission.
▶ 1:08:33Sec. Turner: I have encouraged our colleagues to really work with state and local. Building in a rural and urban areas. They actually plan out the results overall.
▶ 1:08:52Sen. Capito: Rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater I would rather see what you are sort of just saying. Focus on the ones that are working. I like the initiatives on waste fraud. You cite some exciting figures on $30 million or money that went out to people. 30,000 deceased tenants. The taxpayer, that is tough to see.
▶ 1:09:18Sen. Capito: On a program like cdbg that has been helpful in our state and community, I hope that is the case. Take the good lesson and translate those to the rest of the country where you see things are falling short. Thank you for what you are doing . Thank you for being with us here today. Several shots thank you -- Sen.
▶ 1:09:51Schatz: Ta
▶ 1:09:52Schatz: Thank you, we are really grateful for your help. For initiating the contact. In any case I am not shy about advocating for the needs of disaster victims. You were right on it. I appreciate that, this is the easiest softball you will get all morning, do I have your commitment to commit to you to help people?
▶ 1:10:17Sec. Turner: I have enjoyed working with you thus far and will continue.
▶ 1:10:23Sen. Schatz: Lots of things get zeroed out and lots of things get restored in this committee. I think this will also be one of those. You said to senator murray that there is a regulatory environment stifling the construction of new housing. I agree with that. We don't do county ordinances with our zoning restrictive.
▶ 1:10:51Sen. Schatz: The only thing we could do is use federal resources to incentivize states and counties to deregulate. That is what this program is for. I am hoping we could work together to modify the pro housing program as it is currently operated. I know you had a concern about racial equity being one of the criteria.
▶ 1:11:18Sen. Schatz: That is fine, that is your prerogative. You get to change the criteria. This is a very smart use of federal resources. It seems to me on a bipartisan basis, there is a housing shortage in the federal government is not blameless. We are not blameless in this. To the extent that we fund all of these programs, the throughput becomes can't construct anything because of these rules.
▶ 1:11:50Sen. Schatz: We have this bipartisan program enacted on a unanimous basis to try to nudge states and counties to get it together. I'm hoping we could work through whatever objections of the current iteration. With your goals, the president's goals, one of the few areas where we are not in disagreement as the two major political parties. I would hate for this to get swept up in the anti-d.e.I.
▶ 1:12:22Sen. Schatz: Stuff. You have been very effective in avoiding all of that nonsense. I'm afraid this thing will get swept up. Could you comment on how you think the pro housing program could continue to be effective?
▶ 1:12:36Sec. Turner: I appreciate that, I'm not getting swept up in anything other than my job and the priorities I have. You are right about the d.e.I. Part of it. As I said before to you and your colleagues we have a lot of complex programs at hud.
▶ 1:12:57Sec. Turner: When I first came in as I sat before the committee and you all last year, my job is to take an assessment of all of these programs and make sure the money you all appropriated, that we are putting in the intended mission. I will finish and let you go. Thus far it has been awarded about $185 million but only 8 million has been spent.
▶ 1:13:27Sec. Turner: To me, that is not a good use of stewardship. We could be working with the locals in space. 185 million, I don't think it's a good story at this point. The fact that this money hasn't been spent as a pipeline problem, not a policy problem. I just want your commitment.
▶ 1:13:59Sec. Turner: It is your prerogative to determine the program, to propose changes to that program or any budgetary level. It is our program to enact what we want. After that you still have to implement. Are we in agreement?
▶ 1:14:14Sec. Turner: Indeed.
▶ 1:14:17Sen. Schatz: The need for cbdg authorization, we have this program but there is no authorizing statute that is a practical matter. That means communities want to recover have to wait for an act of congress. That I've got to wait for red state or blue state to have this sufficiently damaging disaster before I get behind dr money for my constituents and everyone starting from scratch every single time.
▶ 1:14:46Sen. Schatz: The house manager services committee and a new road to housing draft removed unanimously passed dr authorization from their bill and I'm wondering can we keep the cdbg do thing separate and apart from what other fights are happening about, you know, hedge funds owning housing or crypto and the federal reserve?
▶ 1:15:13Sen. Schatz: This is something we should do because it is not as though we are not spending money on cdbg dr, we are just doing it in the stupidest possible way because we have no statutory framework to do it in a smart way. Can you agree with me?
▶ 1:15:25Sec. Turner: Happy to work with you and this committee. As a steward of hud, I have traveled to many places that have experienced disasters so I have this hope we can get it to the relief to those people in a efficient manner I will carry that out.
▶ 1:15:45Chair Hyde-Smith: Senator cogan -- simple hogan. .
▶ 1:16:02Chair Hyde-Smith: Simple hogan >> 66 unit affordable houg project in downtown grand forks and the grand forks authority has been working with your staff to implement that fy 26 language.
▶ 1:16:24Chair Hyde-Smith: Will you commit to working with the grand forks housing authority to implement the language we passed in a timely manner so we can apply much needed updated housing for the grand forks community?
▶ 1:16:38Sec. Turner: It is good to see you again. Thank you for having me to your great estate. We will continue to do so to make sure this is done appropriately.
▶ 1:16:52Sen. Hoeven: As an aside in that press conference when you are at the president, rfk, former governor now secretary doug burgum, there were talking about who could go 50 miles and who would win the deal. I mean, you play professional football for 10 years and these guys are all staying around like they could even, like, stay with you. Come on. You did not say, come on, guys. Really.
▶ 1:17:23Sen. Hoeven: I was just laughing. I know these guys.
▶ 1:17:26Sec. Turner: It is always fun. I would rather let the film do the talking.
▶ 1:17:32Sen. Hoeven: No kidding. Hey, there a professional football player guys. Come on. Anyway, I had to bring it up. Continue care grants. You guys have been really good getting those going again. Want to thank you for that. You are out and saw some of the incredible programs, for example, we have in fargo that provide housing for victims of abuse.
▶ 1:18:01Sen. Hoeven: Not only do housing with the additional services. They are saving lives and saving lives of women who have been battered and saving lives of children live based turtle of use. You know how credible those programs are. As you continue to approve those grants and we appreciate your work on getting that desk minerals -- renewals for quarter 33 in quarter four. We passed legislation to make sure this is done.
▶ 1:18:31Sen. Hoeven: Update me for quarter 3" or 4 for this year.
▶ 1:18:36Sec. Turner: I did talk to our team at hud and they have insured quarter 3" or 4 will go out in a manner that it is supposed to go out.
▶ 1:18:48Sen. Hoeven: Going forward if you're looking at changes to the continuum of care grants, you commit to ensuring providers like the ones we visited in north dakota will be able to continue effectively serving these vulnerable populations, some of which I described without disruption's?
▶ 1:19:04Sec. Turner: As you know I can only speak about it to a certain point because it is in litigation, but we will continue to focus on those wraparound services as those in your great state are given to help make sure people are transformed and self-sufficiency.
▶ 1:19:22Sen. Hoeven: It is why it is so important for you to get out. I know you have a heart for what you're doing. Seeing it helps you understand. The programs are doing a great job.
▶ 1:19:34Sen. Hoeven: But also understand where we need to do better, and that goes to my last question which is in dealing with combating waste, fraud, interviews, can you discuss how the proposal you have got, the $30 million you have got in the budget here would be implemented and how you kind of track the savings and making sure you're funding the fraud and stopping the programs that should be stopped? Just give us a summary.
▶ 1:19:59Sec. Turner: You are alluding to our hud unified grant system. What this will do is help us to be very transparent. In particular the sub recipient level so we are good stewards of the taxpayer dollars and holding pha's and others accountable. Also with this, it is the first time a dashboard such as this has been created in the pilot program is done.
▶ 1:20:28Sec. Turner: We are also able to help other agencies to do the same to make sure we're rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse. We have a great partnership with the oig office to make sure we carry this out.
▶ 1:20:40Chair Hyde-Smith: Senator coons.
▶ 1:20:46Sen. Coons: I am proud of the fy 26 bill this subcommittee passed that makes strong investments in critical housing programs projected proposed drastic cuts and reauthorization. Madam chair, I agree with you cdbg is a critical part of hud's mission and look forward to working with you whatever cuts may be proposed around programs like shop I've seen effectively implemented in my community are rejected again.
▶ 1:21:16Sen. Coons: Secretary turner, thank you for being here today. My colleague was very gracious about the continuum of care. My community, all the different organizations that benefit from continuum of care, have been thrown into chaos and disarray. It was ultimately only because of federal litigation that you release the continuum of care grants, was in it?
▶ 1:21:37Sec. Turner: Sir, we will continue, as you know, yes, we are going to follow the law but the paradigm --.
▶ 1:21:46Sen. Coons: But you had to be sued in order to follow the law.
▶ 1:21:47Sec. Turner: I'm following the law because I'm supposed to follow the law. It doesn't mean that I agree -- it doesn't mean that I agree with the way the current continuum of care is because it is a failed model.
▶ 1:22:02Sen. Coons: You disagree with a variety of things, cdbg, home, shop, continuum of care. That is your prerogative to say these have all failed.
▶ 1:22:11Sec. Turner: I did not say they were all failed.
▶ 1:22:17Sen. Coons: Can we count on you to actually implement what we appropriate in a timely and professional manner?
▶ 1:22:22Sec. Turner: I think you've seen that. Of course I will. Whatever we appropriate -- you are the appropriators. I am the implementer. The executor. I will maximize the appropriations to fulfill the mission.
▶ 1:22:37Sen. Coons: My concern is over and over across several different programs, your only of limiting them once ordered to buy federal court. And the consequences for the grassroots community organizations I worked with for most of my adult life have been very disruptive. Let me focus on home for a moment. I think her testimony suggested cdbg and homework ideologically motivated programs which I did not quite grasp.
▶ 1:23:05Sen. Coons: As county executive, I worked hard to streamline the affordable housing production process. And our or conformer county executive. Both released permit streamlining and approval process that would improve how quickly we can move toward the market. I was able to use funding from both home and cdbg to help clear roadblocks in terms of putting together the funding stack.
▶ 1:23:35Sen. Coons: The ministry of caring and very well respected faith-based organization in wilmington that is a lot of affordable housing. They were building a 74 unit affordable housing development for seniors. Lots of funding from different sources, cdf I, tax credit, $28 million project in total. A home grant of about $400,000 was the final piece of the puzzle put the capital stuck together to finally get affordable housing bill.
▶ 1:24:06Sen. Coons: Why would you cut funding for affordable housing construction in the middle of the housing supply crisis and in particular michael osterholm and cdbg when you've heard from senators about parties but today and directly in our appreciate -- preparations choices that these are programs we support and what does extended?
▶ 1:24:26Sec. Turner: I appreciate your question in your comments but as I alluded to before, we have many complex programs at hud. If your state is doing well, that is not the case for every state and locality around our country. As we take inventory of these things, we want to make sure we are focusing taxpayer funds, which you all appropriate on this programs are carrying out the mission as a whole.
▶ 1:24:53Sec. Turner: That is why he said the budget before you as it pertains to home and other programs. But also as I've traveled around the country, and we talked about affordable housing, the biggest issue across our country I hear from industry experts and those inside of localities is our regulatory environment. And to take on regulations helps us to increase housing supply but also to bring down the costs.
▶ 1:25:20Sen. Coons: I will go back to the point about the pro housing program. In my community at the county and state level, yes, we are working to streamline at production of housing. Would you agree that the most universal foundational contributor to homelessness is the lack of housing? Quality, affordable housing?
▶ 1:25:39Sec. Turner: I would say there is a myriad of contributors read
▶ 1:25:45Sen. Coons: Housing -- the lack of affordable housing is the one thing in every instance.
▶ 1:25:49Sec. Turner: That is why but there is also drug addiction, mental illness like in my own family. My uncle who was down homeless, veteran had substance abuse, like debilitating disease, beaten and battered. We were able to get hemp wraparound services. It wasn't because he did not have affordable housing, it was other factors. I would say that is one but there are many.
▶ 1:26:15Sen. Coons: I would urge you to open your heart to the possibility that folks that work in housing for decades and have seen a very broad range of contracting causes to homelessness -- provide wraparound supportive services and funding for the production of quality affordable housing.
▶ 1:26:39Sen. Coons: I am concerned I am looking at a budget that cuts $922 million out of homeless support programs at a time when our president is asking for $1 billion to build a ballroom. I just think their priorities are out of whack. I hope this committee will work on a bipartisan basis to fund programs in our experience in our communities and many years we have seen work.
▶ 1:27:00Chair Hyde-Smith: Senator van hollen.
▶ 1:27:03Sen. Mullin: -- Sen. van hollen: wynne lee spoke to your confirmation hearing before the banking and housing committee, we agreed the rising costs of housing were a major contributing factor to the lack of affordable housing rate you would agree with that?
▶ 1:27:23Sec. Turner: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:27:27Sen. Van Hollen: We spoke specifically about how policies adopted by the trump administration have contributed to pushing up costs. For example, we talked then about the trump tariff tax, which was first imposed on what he called liberation day in april of last year. The national association of homebuilders estimates those tariffs increased the cost of construction -- constructing a new house by over $10,000.
▶ 1:27:58Sen. Van Hollen: Do you dispute the determination?
▶ 1:28:00Sec. Turner: What I will say, honestly, the president is clear about tariffs. My job is to run hud and tariffs are not run out of hud.
▶ 1:28:12Sen. Van Hollen: I get that but you honestly have dealings with the national association of homebuilders. We all talk to the stakeholders here. They have indicated those tariffs made houses cost more, which makes your job harder, does not it?
▶ 1:28:27Sec. Turner: What makes my job harder is high interest rates, high mortgage rates, debilitating regulatory environment, illegal immigration in our country. Those things are really what make housing costs go up and really bring this up lie down for the american people.
▶ 1:28:45Sen. Van Hollen: You mentioned higher interest rates. We have also heard from the builders that interest rates have been pushed up since this administration started its illegal war in iran. As you said, those are contributing factors to the cost and the higher cost of mortgages.
▶ 1:29:06Sen. Van Hollen: The numbers we have here indicate that they have gone, just since the beginning of the war in iran, mortgage interest rates have shot up from the low 6% to wake up over 6.5%, adding $30,000 to the total cost of a mortgage. Do you dispute those figures?
▶ 1:29:24Sec. Turner: What I know --.
▶ 1:29:29Sen. Van Hollen: I'm asking if you dispute the figures.
▶ 1:29:30Sec. Turner: I will say the president is securing the safety of our country and I'm grateful for that to keep a nuclear weapon out of the hands of an illegal and evil regime but also focus, if I may, sir, focus on domestic policy and making sure housing affordability is for all americans here. Because of this, I'm grateful for that and to carry out this mission.
▶ 1:29:54Sec. Turner: We will continue to bring the regulatory environment down and to get our fiscal house in order because it was not in order when we first came --.
▶ 1:30:02Sen. Van Hollen: Under this administration, our fiscal house has gotten a much bigger disorder, so-called big beautiful bill that was beautiful for billionaires added $4 billion to our national debt. Let's not suggest we got our fiscal house in order. It actually drove up our deficit.
▶ 1:30:21Sec. Turner: It is in better order now than it was --.
▶ 1:30:26Sen. Van Hollen: That is factually untrue statement. Look, I appreciate it when you said -- in response to my question about higher interest rates, I asked it because you said that higher interest rates made it harder to afford a home. Mortgage rates have gone up. And yet your response actually was in support of the president's illegal war in iran.
▶ 1:30:56Sen. Van Hollen: You did not say it is a different lane. The fact of the matter is, and I think most americans are aware of this because americans overwhelmingly reject the decision of the president to launch an illegal war on iran is that --
▶ 1:31:08Sec. Turner: I want america to be safe.
▶ 1:31:11Sen. Van Hollen: This is actually making us a lot less safe. The president tell us last year that he had already eliminated all the nuclear weapons? The capacity?
▶ 1:31:21Sec. Turner: I know americans want to be safe in their homes and their cities. They don't want an evil regime with a nuclear weapon. If an evil regime has a nuclear weapon --.
▶ 1:31:37Sen. Van Hollen: Let me just -- this cost issue is important. It does make your job harder when the tariff tax drives up costs, when the war in iran drives up costs. I think then you need to really make sure you are asking for the resources you need for programs. Can you explain why you cut by 7% the budget for section 202 and section 811 in housing?
▶ 1:32:07Sec. Turner: The disabled and seniors are priority for hud matter what the budget is that you appropriate to us -- you are the appropriators. No matter what that budget is, we will continue to prioritize seniors and disabled whatever our budget may be. That priority has not changed and will not change.
▶ 1:32:26Sen. Van Hollen: Just in closing, it does not look like you are prioritizing seniors and people with disabilities when you propose a 7% cut.
▶ 1:32:35Sec. Turner: We will maximize --.
▶ 1:32:38Sen. Van Hollen: That is not my definition of prioritizing.
▶ 1:32:44Chair Hyde-Smith: I think this concludes a hearing today on the record will remain open until tuesday, may 20 sixth, for senators to submit any additional questions you may have. As your secretary, thank you for appearing today and we request your responses to any additional questions within 30 days. The hearing is adjourned and the subcommittee stands in recess subject to call of the chair.