▶ 0:17:40>> good afternoon. Today, the committee will consider nine bills, six senate bills and three house companion measures focused on land transfers, land exchanges, and the resolution of long-standing tribal land claims. The travel settlement act sponsored by our former colleague would implement a $137.5 million U.S. court of claims recommended settlement between the united states and the nation.
▶ 0:18:10The next, we have the indian nation land transfer act sponsored by senator cantwell and its house companion hr 2389. It would take 70 acres into trust for the benefit of the quinault indian nation.
▶ 0:18:34Next on the agenda is 2796 which would authorize a land exchange between the yuhaaviatam of san manuel -- owned by the yuhaaviatam of sentimental nation for approximately 1.475 acres of national forest system land to be held.
▶ 0:19:04It would improve wildfire management and protect culturally significant sites including the arrowhead landmark. Next, we have the pit river land transfer act is for a forest service land in shasta county, california come into trust for the. River -- pit river tribe.
▶ 0:19:363219, albuquerque indian school act of 2025. It would transfer it into trust for the 19 problems of new mexico. This would ensure this I can continue to support educational, cultural, health, and economic development opportunities.
▶ 0:19:53Finally, s 3475 which is sponsored by senator gillibrand would approve a negotiated settlement between the saint regis mohawk tribe, the mohawk council akwesasne, and the new york power company, resolving land claims that have been in litigation for more than 40 years. These reflect years of work by tribes, local communities, states, and federal agencies to resolve land issues and advance tribal priorities.
▶ 0:20:23While on the federal agency witnesses will testify today, I would encourage the tribes that are affected by this legislation to submit written testimony and other materials for the record so their views may be fully considered by the committee and we will turn to the vice chair for his opening statement. >> thank you for calling today's hearing. The bills on the agenda would accomplish two important goals.
▶ 0:20:45Rebuilding travel homelands and settling debts owed by the united states and before going any further, I just want to, you know, this is not our last hearing more markup but I think it's just always worth remembering what an oasis of bipartisanship the senate committee on indian affairs continues to be and that is because of your leadership, because of our friendship, because of the good work of the staff on both sides so thank you for that.
▶ 0:21:11Over the past three congresses, senate committee on indian affairs has considered over a dozen bills that would take land into trust and eight have become law. As a committee, we are familiar with the importance of the opportunities it creates rebuilding and advancing tribal sovereignty and self-determination but we do not often see bills that provide redress for harms when the federal government has not lived up to its statutory obligations. From the nation, historical mismanagement of trust property for tribal nations.
▶ 0:21:42For the mohawk, it was purchased in violation of federal law. Authorizing and ratifying settlements between sovereigns is just one of the ways this committee ensures the federal government lives up to its duties as a trustee and I look forward to learning more about these particular bills and I want to thank our testify as today. >> thank you, senator. We will now turn to our witnesses. We have today Mr.
▶ 0:22:05Brian messier, the director of the bureau of indian affairs, the department of interior here in washington, D.C. and Mr. john crockett, the deputy chief of the forest service at department of in washington, D.C. and I will remind both of you we do have your full written testimony and it will be made part of the official record so we ask you to summarize within the five minutes.
▶ 0:22:32I anticipate there will be members who are coming but I will also remind that we have a vote that begins at 2:15 so I would like to get witnesses testimony in before we might have to take a break. I know senator, you have another committee hearing so we are triple tasking may be but we welcome you to the committee so that we can as a committee move forward in processing these important bills. If you would like to lead off. >> yes, thank you, madam chair.
▶ 0:23:03Chairman murkowski, vice chairman, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and discussed several bills affecting tribal nations. I would like to thank you for the invitation to alaska last month. I was very impressed with that community and the hearing that he hosted and I have been thinking a lot about it since my visit last month. >> you are going to be invited back again. >> thank you.
▶ 0:23:27I am a proud member of the community of oregon and I'm also the director of the bureau of indian affairs at the department of interior. It carries out the federal government's trust and treaty responsibilities across 56 million acres of trust land held for federally recognized tribes and individual american indians. Through our programs and partnerships, we work to strengthen tribal sovereignty, promote self-determination, and support sustainable economic development and stewardship of tribal lands and resources.
▶ 0:23:56I'm here today to discuss six bills that would affect tribal lands, land claims, and tribal communities. First, we tribal settlement act of 20 25 would establish a settlement trust account and authorize payment of settlement funds related to long-standing legal claims. The department supports the intent of the legislation to effectuate the payment of funds and resolution of the claims against the united states brought by the claimants.
▶ 0:24:21We look forward to working with the sponsor and the committee on technical assistance to address concerns and ensure that the legislation establishes a settlement payment process that is efficient and legally sound. Next, the indian nation land transfer act would transfer approximately 72 acres of land administered by the forest service into trust for the indian nation.
▶ 0:24:46The department supports the goals of the bill and would welcome the opportunity to work with the committee on technical changes. We defer to the department of agriculture regarding the impacts to forest service lands. Next is the albuquerque indian school act of 2025 which would place a proximately 9.89 acres of federal land managed by the general services administration into trust for the benefit of the 19 problems of new mexico.
▶ 0:25:12The department supports this legislation and we would welcome the opportunity to work with the committee on a few minor technical modifications. It would authorize a land exchange between the united states and the sandman will nation to consolidate federal land holdings and enhance stewardship of the san bernardino national forest.
▶ 0:25:30The department would like to provide to -- to assure easements are provided to the department prior to the finalizing of the exchange and we defer to the department of agriculture. Next is the land transfer act of 2025 which would transfer approximately 584 acres of federal land administered by the forest service into trust for the tribe of california.
▶ 0:25:59The department supports the goals of the legislation and would welcome the opportunity to work with the committee on technical modifications related to online surveys prior to the transfer. Finally, the settlement agreement would authorize, ratify, and confirm the agreement of settlement and compromise to resolve the mohawk land claim in the state of new york. The united states has a limited role in the settlement and is not computing funds or land or other compensation to secure the settlement.
▶ 0:26:30Thank you again for the opportunity to testify and I would be happy to answer any questions the community may have. >> thank you. The committee looks forward to working with you and the department in these areas where you have indicated that medical assistance and support so thank you for that. Mr. crockett, please. Your testimony. >> thank you. Chair, ranking member, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. I am a deputy chief in the U.S.
▶ 0:27:01Forest service. I appreciate the opportunity to provide testimony on three bills before the committee. The land transfer act, then the exchange act, and the land exchange. The forest service manages 193 million acres of grasslands and national forest.
▶ 0:27:27Many of which are in proximity to tribal ancestral territories. Our partnership with tribes support for this -- force management, restoration, and the protection of culturally significant lands. We remain committed to strong government to government relationships and close coronation with our partners.
▶ 0:27:50The land transfer act would transfer approximately 72 acres from the olympic national forest to the interior to be held in trust for the nation subject to existing rights. It prohibits gaming under the indian gaming regulatory act. The usda supports this legislation and we are committed to working with the department of interior and the quinault indian nation to ensure a smooth and well coordinated transfer.
▶ 0:28:182796, yuhaaviatam of san manuel nation land exchange act would authorize the land exchange involving approximately 1400 60 acres owned by the nation for about 1004 hundred 75 acres of national forest land.
▶ 0:28:32The forest service has been engaged in a proposed land exchange since 2020 two including public consultation in 20 23 and reached a major milestone in may of this year with the completion of the land review, and signature on the analysis. This bill exempts the exchange from public land exchange provisions in the federal land policy and management act and requires an agreement to preserve the arrowhead landmark site.
▶ 0:29:02The usda is supportive of this legislation and we look forward to continuing to work with the committee on the implementation details. In particular, we recommend clarifying the respective roles of the usda and department of interior in completing this land exchange and because the estate is involved, the department of interior has responsibilities that are necessary to complete that part of the transaction. Clarifying these responsibilities in the legislation could help avoid delays as well as support a more efficient process.
▶ 0:29:35The land exchange act. This bill would transfer approximately 584 acres within the shasta trinity national forest to the department of interior to be held in trust for the pit river tribe and includes a prohibition on gaming. The usda supports this legislation and we would like to continue working with the committee to ensure the existing easements and special use permits are accurately represented geographically.
▶ 0:30:03Taken together, these bills represent an important opportunity to support tribal sovereignty, protect cultural resources, and strengthen intergovernmental partnerships. The forest service remains committed to working with this committee, tribal nations, and federal partners to implement these actions in a manner that is coordinated and respectful to all interests involved. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I look forward to answering any questions.
▶ 0:30:30>> thank you and again, I extend the same as I did, looking forward to working with those of you at forest service to get through some of the technical issues that you have highlighted. Senator heinrich, I know that we have one of your bills on the docket here today, the albuquerque indian school act of 2025 if you would like to speak to that. Or ask the witnesses particular questions but please proceed.
▶ 0:30:59Senator Heinrich: Thank you, chair murkowski and thanks for holding this hearing on the albuquerque indian school act. And certainly thank you to our witnesses for being here today. I am pleased to be joined in this effort by my colleague, a senator who is a cosponsor and I want to recognize congresswoman melanie who introduced the house companion, along with the
▶ 0:31:32Senator Heinrich: Congresswoman. Finally, thank you to the department of interior for their testimony in support of this legislation. I very much appreciate the department's recognition that this bill advances tribal sovereignty and self-determination. The albuquerque indian school act is about putting a small but important piece of land where it belongs with new mexico's 19 pueblos.
▶ 0:31:58Senator Heinrich: It makes sense from the federal government's perspective that this bill would transfer nearly 10 acres have excess federal land next to the indian pueblo cultural center into trust for new mexico's 19 pueblos.
▶ 0:32:12Senator Heinrich: Gsa has already identified these as excess property so this bill helps reduce the federal real estate footprint while putting underused land to a higher use and it does so in a way that respects the history of the location and the leadership of the 19 pueblos. This is about more than just the land transfer. The cultural center is now a nationally recognized museum and cultural institution owned and operated by the pueblos.
▶ 0:32:44Senator Heinrich: It's dedicated to preserving and perpetuating pueblo history, culture, and art while promoting future economic growth and long-term economic stability. It's broader campus is also a major economic engine in the region. What began with less than $1 million in annual revenue in 1976 now generates more than $60 million each year, a testimony to its growth and success.
▶ 0:33:13Senator Heinrich: This additional acreage would allow the public to expand on that success with a walkable business park featuring space for scaling local small businesses, warehousing, distribution all under pueblo leadership. There is a long bipartisan history behind this effort. Since 1969, the 19 pueblos have worked with congress and federal agencies to reclaim and consolidate portions of the former albuquerque indian school campus for cultural preservation and economic development.
▶ 0:33:44Senator Heinrich: Congress enacted in 1978 under the senator's leadership and again in 2008 and 2015 to place additional land associated with the former albuquerque indian school site into trust. My albuquerque indian school act follows that very same path. The development of these underutilized parcels of land will create jobs, foster entrepreneurship, and expand business services for pueblo communities and the broader public as well.
▶ 0:34:15Senator Heinrich: Additionally, the house has shown support for our house companion and in fact, it passed the house yesterday with bipartisan support. This is a good bill rooted in history, grounded in practicality and led by the pueblos themselves. It turns underused federal property into an asset for cultural preservation, entrepreneurship, and long-term economic strength.
▶ 0:34:41Senator Heinrich: So I would urge the committee to move it as swiftly as they see fit. Thank you. >> thank you, senator. And know that I noted in my opening statement that there has been a great deal of work in these respective bills that we have on the docket here today and we recognize that witnesses that we have are here to get the final signoff but one has gone
▶ 0:35:11Senator Heinrich: Into it needs to be recognized as well so to those who have been helping to advance the albuquerque indian school act, let them know that we appreciate their cooperative efforts. Thank you. Senator armstrong, I know that you would like to make a statement on your bill.
▶ 0:35:34Senator Heinrich: I introduced it as the quapaw tribal sediment act of 2025 that your predecessor, senator markwayne mullin, had introduced but I am pleased that you are here to speak to the bill and to continue the effort that was led by now secretary mullen. >> first, I would like to acknowledge the chair for the nation and there she is.
▶ 0:36:07Senator Heinrich: Thank you for joining us today and thanks for your efforts on this. And a lot of great dedication on her part of trying to get this wrapped up and to the final account allocation determination , so anyway, I just want to say thanks for sticking with this in the good efforts on that. I do have a few questions today on that and are we ready for that as well?
▶ 0:36:37Senator Heinrich: >> I am happy to yield to you, senator armstrong, to begin the questions. I know we have got a vote. So please proceed. >> first of all, to the final allocation, you testified that your department would not support measures to expose the united states to add additional liability among other concerns so would be a provision waiving any potential liability to the
▶ 0:37:11Senator Heinrich: Department for distributing the funds and determining a final allocation between the tribe if needed be sufficient to resolve the departments concerned? Quick thank you for the question and congratulations on the appointment. Good to meet you. I would need to take that back to our solicitors to confirm there would be sufficiency for such a waiver so I am not able to answer affirmatively right now but I am happy to take that back to the department to see if that would be sufficient.
▶ 0:37:39Senator Heinrich: >> how long do you think it would take to get an answer back? Let's just a few days. >> I look forward to that. Thank you. And then as well on the cost issue, the united states agreed to settle the litigation underlying the tribal settlement act and the court of federal claims for 137 -- 100 37,500,000. Is that correct? >> yes, senator. That is correct.
▶ 0:38:06Senator Heinrich: >> do you feel that congress has the obligation to pay sums agreed to by the united states to settle claims against it? >> yes, senator. We are supportive of the settlement of the claims. >> great. Finally, does the department have ideas as to where those funds redirected to offset? Once we have some ideas and we would be happy to speak to you and other members of the committee to discuss those ideas. >> thank you. Very good.
▶ 0:38:36Senator Heinrich: You know, I think the other issue I just wanted to raise and make sure that we come up with a solution is in the process of allocating those funds to the tribes, and whether or not you see the responsibility of your department in that regard in terms of helping out with the settlement of that.
▶ 0:39:03Senator Heinrich: >> thank you for the question, senator. We are always willing to provide technical assistance and to try to assist with this type of settlement and we have done them in the past and that's part of I think my testimony today is that the bill is currently written is somewhat different from what we typically would see and we would like to maybe get back to that. >> ok, good. Seems like that is something that should not take us to resolve. I appreciate, you know, you need to get back to me on that.
▶ 0:39:34Senator Heinrich: And to this office but it seems like something we should have some pretty good clarity on. I know that has been done in the past as well so could you speak may be to what you think is unique about the language today? >> yes. This current bill has a couple of provisions that concern us and one of them is the process is inconsistent with what we have done previously. Some of the other settlement agreements.
▶ 0:40:04Senator Heinrich: In our opinion, it exposes us to additional and all legal liability. >> when you say inconsistent, in what ways is it inconsistent? >> the mechanism being through the united states, we have done this through third parties in the past and other mechanisms in the past but the other aspect of the bill that has us concerned is that it seems to ask the secretary of interior to mediate a dispute at the tribe that we are very concerned about. We typically try to stay out of those.
▶ 0:40:33Senator Heinrich: >> you all have not done that before? >> we try to stay out of intertribal disputes as best we can. >> I can appreciate that and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. >> thank you. >> I yield my time. >> thank you, senator. Let me ask a couple of questions .
▶ 0:40:58Senator Heinrich: And again, I think it is important to note that has been great persistence in pursuing this settlement. I think you have noted that as well. In her testimony, the department states that any settlement should be responsible with taxpayer dollars and serve the national interest. Do you have concerns regarding this settlement given those standards?
▶ 0:41:28Senator Heinrich: In other words, are you saying the department believes that the settlement is not a responsible use of taxpayer dollars or did not serve the national interest? If so, what leads you to that conclusion? >> thank you, chairman, for the question. No, I don't think we are taking a position at this time on the bill and would be very open to having further conversations with the sponsors and the tribes about the bill.
▶ 0:41:56Senator Heinrich: >> so my understanding is that the mohawk nation council of chiefs, which serves as the traditional government, withdrew from the litigation. They are not party to any final settlement agreement. Does the department have any concerns about the absence of them from this settlement. --?
▶ 0:42:21Senator Heinrich: In other words, does withdrawing from the settlement create any risks about implementation or future claims or concerned about settlement overall? >> to be honest, chairman, you know, I think there's many different aspects about the bill that we would want to have a conversation about. I cannot speak to that one in particular. But we are open to further conversations for sure.
▶ 0:42:48Senator Heinrich: >> will come as we move through these bills and again, whether it's going through what should be the easy things on some of the technical assistance, I know the bill sponsor would again like to be able to advance this so if we could have more discussion with the department on this particular one, we would appreciate that.
▶ 0:43:17Senator Heinrich: Moving to what senator heinrich just spoke to, in her testimony, you expressed support for the transfer. But when you were in the house testifying on the companion bill, you specifically noted the need to ensure the relocation of all the federal tenants that are occupying the property before the transfer can occur. So I guess the question to you is who is occupying that property now in his 90 days enough time to accomplish the relocation?
▶ 0:43:49Senator Heinrich: >> thank you for the question. My testimony -- and I'm not sure whether there are still tenants at the low -- current location. You need to work with the administration to confirm but I'm pretty confident if the bill were to pass, 90 days would be sufficient.
▶ 0:44:07Senator Heinrich: >> we will check on that and you did refer to some modifications that he thought might be needed but again, I will take it that that was six months ago so we may be in a better place, correct? Got it. Thank you. Let me tuned to you, Mr. crockett, and I will begin with the san will nation land exchange.
▶ 0:44:34Senator Heinrich: Forest service has historically treated land exchanges as transactions that require appraisal to determine the value of the lands and to ensure that basically we are talking about equal value here.
▶ 0:44:50Senator Heinrich: This proposed exchange does involve a triumph but it does not include a land into trust component and therefore seems to be consistent with the type of fee to fee in exchange for which the forest service has traditionally required valuation and equalization procedures but the bill itself does not expressly require an equal value determination or appraisals of the parcels. Is this something that we should be considering?
▶ 0:45:22Senator Heinrich: You have spoken in support of the bill but do we need to look at equal value? I guess I am concerned that we might have a situation where you would have the forest service departing from the valuation principles that ordinarily govern federal land exchanges in this case. So walk me through where we are with that.
▶ 0:45:48Senator Heinrich: >> thank you for the question and so we are anchoring to our standard guides related to the appraisal for this which does actually require equal value and we have already done the appraisals. The appraisal was submitted to the tribe last week. You know, last week.
▶ 0:46:10Senator Heinrich: So I feel like I know we are managing both the administrative aspect of this as well as the legislative aspect of it but we have taken care of the equal value concern to the appraisal. >> so you are doing the appraisal because the reason I ask is as you probably know, we deal with situations like this in alaska.
▶ 0:46:32Senator Heinrich: We have got one situation where we are seeking a land exchange and we have been criticized for the fact that it's not a traditional equal value exchange.
▶ 0:46:47Senator Heinrich: It's more of an acre for acre settlement given the oil spill trust fund under the recovery act so when I am hearing you say is you are following the practices that require appraisal and equal value exchange. >> correct.
▶ 0:47:08Senator Heinrich: And the study was just a little bit different because the act required us to provide a 2022 report to congress that have a lot of specificity in it in which we anchor in my previous testimony for it so the land exchange is different because it identifies specific parcels of acres but for this land exchange, we are looking at the appraisal as a primary mechanism for providing equal value.
▶ 0:47:38Senator Heinrich: Collection and that appraisal comes back so you will select equal value based on that appraisal? >> correct. And it does not have to be acre for acre. It is just the equal value associated with it. >> I understand that the forest service has been working with the tribe to accomplish the land exchange administratively. Is that still going forward?
▶ 0:48:03Senator Heinrich: Why are we doing legislation if you think you can do this administratively? Once we made a lot of progress administratively and signed the decision memo on it as recently as monday and like I said earlier, the appraisal has been done and delivered to the tribe.
▶ 0:48:21Senator Heinrich: We are in the final stages of signing the subsurface mineral>> signing the subsurface mineral>- signing the subsurface mineral>u signing the subsurface mineral>k
▶ 0:48:51Senator Heinrich: On that in light of the legislation that you are testifying to? >> absolutely not. We are moving full steam ahead on the administrative aspects of the land exchange. >> in the written testimony, you ask for exemptions from national historic preservation act as well as -- why are you asking for these exemptions? >> so once again, in my written testimony, he made a lot of progress since my written testimony.
▶ 0:49:20Senator Heinrich: Because we have signed it already, it's kind of a moot point to ask for that exemption but the original reason for asking for that exemption was to be responsive to the 120 day timeframe that was part of the legislation. We thought that exemption would help us move through it faster but we have tackled all of those hurdles administratively at this point so it's not needed. >> in other words, we are further down the road with this legislation as well.
▶ 0:49:48Senator Heinrich: Let me ask one question with regards to the land transfer act. It appears some of the lands would be -- that would be transferred are currently subject to special use permits and some other easements including with electric utilities. They were perhaps not fully detailed in the bill or properly extruded -- excluded from the transfer.
▶ 0:50:11Senator Heinrich: You referenced in your testimony special use permits and the need to accurately represent that geographically I think is what you said. I mean, is this just a situation of getting the maps right? >> the acreage is accurate but the maps are off so we need to produce the updated maps to reflect the appropriate amount of acreage that is the technical correction we want to make.
▶ 0:50:39Senator Heinrich: >> to the director, do we need to have interagency agreements to ensure a transfer of the management responsibilities, whether it's fire management if this bill becomes law? >> thank you, madam chair, for the question. If the bill becomes law, this is a mandatory acquisition and we will take a lot into trust. We still want to coordinate with the neighboring forest service and other jurisdictions so we will want those. I don't know if we have to have them to move forward.
▶ 0:51:10Chair Murkowski: So it is something we may look too. I do not have any further questions of either of you. Senator armstrong, anything further? Would either of you care to add anything you feel needs to be reinforced before the committee on any of the matters that we have before us today?
▶ 0:51:28Chair Murkowski: >> just that we do look forward to working on some technical amendments for many of the bills and with senator armstrong on the quapaw bill itself and with the senator from new york on the mohawk one as well. Thank you.
▶ 0:51:43Mr. Crockett: Nothing additional for me. Supportive of all three bills, looking forward to the minor technical corrections and moving them forward. >> we appreciate a level of cooperation with the agencies to advance these as the senator mentioned. We like to do bills in this committee.
▶ 0:52:03Mr. Crockett: We actually like to advance some policy initiatives that good people have been working on for a long period of time so thank you for helping us advance just that and with that, the committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]