▶ 0:17:26Chair Capito: Good morning, everybody. It is a pleasure to be here. This morning we will hear from president trump's nominee to be the assistant secretary for fish and wildlife at the U.S. department of the interior. Mr. kevin lilly. Welcome to the environment and public works committee. I know you spent a considerable amount of time with the energy and resources committee yesterday. Given our split jurisdictions. We are very appreciative you are with us today.
▶ 0:17:57Chair Capito: Mr. lilly brings decades of leadership experience gained from his time in the private sector, state government, the military, and most recently at the department of the interior in the role as assistant secretary. He has been nominated to be the assistant secretary for fish and wildlife where he would provide senior leadership, policy leadership for U.S. fish and wildlife and the national park service.
▶ 0:18:19Chair Capito: This role includes oversight of the implementation of the endangered species act, esa, conservation, and funding partnerships with states and landowners and sewer chips of our national parks. The fish and wildlife service also participates in the federal permitting process through the esa consultation process. This process has been long, inefficient, and costly for projects and communities across the country.
▶ 0:18:45Chair Capito: Any assistant secretary confirmed to this position must believe that federal agencies can protect a threatened and endangered species while also providing timely consultation, habitat, and incidental take decisions to ensure that important infrastructure projects can responsibly and efficiently move forward. These projects should not be held hostage because federal agencies failed to coordinate early or establish clear schedules or make necessary determinations.
▶ 0:19:14Chair Capito: Striking an appropriate balance between conservation and beneficial economic development is essential for all states and that is no different than the state of west virginia, my home. Oversight of the national park service is equally important in west virginia. We have the new river gorge national park and reserve, one of west virginia's great natural resources and an important economic driver through tourism and recreation. I highly recommend it.
▶ 0:19:41Chair Capito: The park has defied the failing attendant trends facing other national parks. The new river gorge posted a 9.5% increase in attendance in 2025 with visitors can tripping over $100 million into the local economy in 2024. However, the park has only had -- only has now an acting superintendent instead of a permanent one.
▶ 0:20:05Chair Capito: The new river gorge national park needs a permanent superintendent to focus on improving the visitor experience and park operations, as well as working with surrounding communities to leverage the opportunities presented by the park's increasing attendance. I expect the assistant secretary to make filling this position a priority for the national park service. West virginians are proud conservationists with the tradition of hunting, fishing, and outdoor recreation throughout our beautiful state.
▶ 0:20:33Chair Capito: The north american model of wildlife conservation has been a great success in this country in ensuring we responsibly manage public resources for the future. Unique in this model is the role our hunters, anglers, and outdoor recreation us play not only a local conservation work but in funding in helping to deliver conservation programs. This model supports recreation and tourism opportunities in local communities all across the country.
▶ 0:21:02Chair Capito: Having leaders in washington that appreciate these important partnerships is key to the continued success. I look forward to hearing from our nominee about his experience and issues he will prioritize it confirmed to this position. With that I would like to recognize ranking member white house for his opening statement.
▶ 0:21:17Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you very much, chairman. We just have brightness but before the committee to discuss the fish and wildlife service budget. We are here to discuss the nomination of his boss. There are a few things from the last hearing that are worth raising with Mr. lilly. First, the way that the department of the interior and its bureaus in your jurisdiction have created career staffers is unacceptable.
▶ 0:21:47Sen. Whitehouse: You all have let the dog you boys chase out nearly 1800 employees, purging at least 530 biologists. I don't know what the biologists did to deserve that treatment. And over 100 regional senior staff. The park service is suffering with parks and wildlife refuge is and overburdened.
▶ 0:22:10Sen. Whitehouse: I remind you that you will be overseeing two bureaus, the national park service had fish and wildlife service, which have jurisdiction over some of god's greatest creations. Last week I displayed this chart of the biomass of mammals on earth. It is almost all humans, pets, and livestock.
▶ 0:22:38Sen. Whitehouse: 5% -- 5% of memo biomass is all that remains on this planet that is still wild. We are living through a biodiversity crash. Often called a sixth mass extinction.
▶ 0:23:00Sen. Whitehouse: This time, not brought on by an asteroid but by human, pollution, climate change, deforestation, habitat destruction, overexploitation -- in a word, greed. The department of the interior seems not to care. In march, the secretary, your boss, sought fit to exempt all of gulf of mexico oil and gas activities from our foremost wildlife protection law, the endangered species act.
▶ 0:23:31Sen. Whitehouse: Careless that the gulf is home to the reiss's wheel, a specie so endangered that there are only around 50 left. This administration will happily sacrifice an entire species on its altar of oil and gas interests. Meanwhile you all pretend to care about the north atlantic right whale. What is the difference?
▶ 0:24:01Sen. Whitehouse: Well, rice's whale inhabits offshore oil and gas territory and so can die. The right whale inhabits offshore wind territory and is a useful tool to attack a energy. You all use fake concern about one whale to suppress oil and gas' is clean energy rival while sacrificing the other whale the fossil fuel.
▶ 0:24:33Sen. Whitehouse: It is yet another example of corruption to help trump's fossil fuel donors. Right now after losing every case on your offshore wind shenanigans you are using billions of taxpayer money to buy out fossil fuel's lower cost competition. Anything to prop up trump's oil and gas donors.
▶ 0:25:01Sen. Whitehouse: That should not be the primary mission of the department of interior. I very much doubt you are equipped to be successful in the position for which you have been nominated based on your background and experience. You say you have a tremendous appreciation of the land, waters, and wildlife managed by the national park service and fish and wildlife service. Appreciating things as you sacrifice them does not pass the test.
▶ 0:25:30Sen. Whitehouse: Your predecessors, including from the first trump administration, had decades of specialized experience. You cannot replace decades of experience, of expertise, with one year as acting, particularly when you have run out 530 of your biologists, and particularly not after a year like we've had.
▶ 0:25:50Sen. Whitehouse: To eliminate an entire species to sell wildlife refuges to private interests, to decrease enforcement of out of season hunting on federally owned lands -- poaching, for pete's sake. These things have happened with a stroke of a pen. Mr. lilly, if you are confirmed from the decisions you make in this role will affect our country's remaining wildlife for years to come. You should manage our wildlife refuges and parks for the good of all americans and the species who call them home.
▶ 0:26:23Sen. Whitehouse: Not for deep-pocketed and politically connected polluters. I give you about a 2% shot. I hope I'm wrong. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 0:26:33Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator cruz is on his way to introduce the witness. So, if we could wait just a minute or two. If he doesn't go we will move forward.
▶ 0:26:46Sen. Whitehouse: Ah, the senate. In which senators are on their way.
▶ 0:26:53Chair Capito: What was it, senator kennedy was on his way but he was at the boston airport? [laughter]
▶ 0:29:08Chair Capito: Senator cruz, to the epw committee. Do you like our new hearing room? This is our first year back in it. Trying to be as good as commerce. I will turn it over to senator cruz to introduce kevin lilly.
▶ 0:29:21Sen. Cruz: Thank you for the leniency. I had to gavel in in commerce before running down here. Thank you for the flexibility. Good morning, madam chair, ranking member whitehouse, members of this committee. It is my privilege to introduce my friend, kevin lilly, president trump's nominee to service the next assistant secretary for fish and wildlife at the department of the interior.
▶ 0:29:45Sen. Cruz: Kevin is a texas native who attended the university of texas at austin for his undergraduate studies, and later earned his mba from southern methodist university. During his time at the university of texas, kevin participated and received a commission as a tank commander in the united states army. He later rose to the rank of captain. His service to texas and our nation continued in the texas state guard. He led the eighth regiment as a colonel during hurricane harvey.
▶ 0:30:18Sen. Cruz: The eighth regiment, I would like to note, is known as "terri's texas rangers" and was first led by sam houston. So, this regimen in particular is very meaningful to the lone star state. Kevin later served as the chairman of the texas alcoholic beverage commission, where he oversaw agents responsible for public safety and law enforcement at a licensed establishments across texas.
▶ 0:30:48Sen. Cruz: In that role he oversaw efforts to monitor and investigate human trafficking, money laundering, and narcotics trafficking activities. He also founded avalon advisors, llc, the largest privately owned wealth management firm in texas. I would note kevin spent many years as business partners with one of my closest friends on planet earth.
▶ 0:31:15Sen. Cruz: Today, kevin serves as the acting assistant secretary for fish and wildlife. His experience serving both the state of texas and our nation has made him a steady and reliable leader who understands the importance of cooperation among local, state, and federal governments. Kevin and his family share a deep love of the outdoors, including fishing and hunting.
▶ 0:31:41Sen. Cruz: Which has fostered a strong appreciation for our public lands. Kevin is a proud texan. I'm not sure there is any other kind. A proud american. A well respected leader. A lifelong conservative republican who has dedicated himself to serving the people of texas. His love for god, family, and country is evident through his continued public service.
▶ 0:32:07Sen. Cruz: I have no doubt that he will continue to lead with conviction and integrity as the assistant secretary for fish and wildlife of the department of the interior. Kevin is a good man and he will do an excellent job. I strongly encourage my colleagues to support his nomination. Thank you.
▶ 0:32:26Chair Capito: Thank you, senator cruz. Appreciate you coming. I know you have a commerce committee meeting because I am on your committee as well. As the senator leaves I will ask the nominee, Mr. lilly, to come forward to the witness table. If you want to remain standing, Mr. lilly. Before we move to an opening statement I will administer the oath for you to receive your sworn testimony. If you would raise your right hand.
▶ 0:32:57Chair Capito: Do you swear the testimony are about to give to this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? Thank you. Let the record show that the witness has answered in the affirmative and we will now hear from the nominee. Mr. lilly, when you are ready you are recognized for five minutes. And thank you for being here.
▶ 0:33:21Mr. Lilly: Good morning, chairman l, ranking member white house, members of the committee. -- good morning, chairman capito , ranking member whitehouse, members of the committee. I am doing here today by my wife, leslie -- I'm joined here today but my wife leslie, both of my sons, john and james although james seems to be dealing with the D.C. parking and is trying to find a place.
▶ 0:33:53Mr. Lilly: We will expect him shortly. As well as several friends.
▶ 0:33:57Chair Capito: Apparently, he is here.
▶ 0:34:00Mr. Lilly: Really? Sorry. I am grateful for the unwavering support of my wife leslie throughout our many years together. Her faith and resilience have always been my northstar. I am proud to be the father of two eagle scouts who are now both here and a remarkable daughter who has made us a doting grandparents and a son-in-law who is proudly serving in the U.S. military at the present time.
▶ 0:34:29Mr. Lilly: Their commitment to service, leadership, and family has inspired me as much as I have tried to inspire them. Most of my life has been devoted to encouraging young people to growing confidence in my work as an assistant scoutmaster or baseball and softball coach. These experiences reinforce my belief in mentorship, responsibility, and community.
▶ 0:34:54Mr. Lilly: Our families love of hunting, fishing, and camping has carried me across some of the most beautiful and diverse landscapes in our nation. Experiencing these places firsthand has deepened my appreciation for the public lands entrusted to us and to strengthen desire to expand access to them so that more americans can share in the same sense of wonder, peace, and connection to the land.
▶ 0:35:20Mr. Lilly: My faith has always guided my respect for creation, ground and my belief that natural resources are gifts to be cared for with humility and gratitude. The values that guide me today were shaped early in my life. Growing up in federal housing through the military as the youngest of five, resilience, gratitude, and the importance of hard work. My maternal grandparents immigrated from sicily in search of opportunity.
▶ 0:35:49Mr. Lilly: My grandfather was poor and uneducated and he found work only as a street cleaner in new york city. My father, whose irish ancestors emigrated to boston, served in world war ii, korea, and vietnam, and as a police officer. My older brother served honorably in vietnam before losing his life to the long-term effects of agent orange exposure.
▶ 0:36:15Mr. Lilly: These experiences gave me a deep understanding of hardship, strengthening my empathy for others and instilling in me a profound respect for the strength of families and communities. These foundations have shaped my approach to service throughout my life, as senator cruz mentioned, first as a commissioned U.S. army calvary officer and tank commander then as a texas state police commissioner, now my work at the department of the interior.
▶ 0:36:43Mr. Lilly: Over the past year serving as a steward of america's natural resources has been more than a professional opportunity. It has been a calling. My faith rooted in care, responsibility, and respect for creation aligns naturally with work that protects public lands and wildlife. I carry into this mission a sense of purpose rooted in humility and gratitude.
▶ 0:37:06Mr. Lilly: I am also grateful for the dedicated career men and women that serve faithfully in the fish and wildlife service in the national park service. I am inspired each day by their public service. I am grateful to the opportunity to work with our tribal, state, local, and external partners as well as our gateway communities and the hundreds of rents groups. This is a collaborative effort. As assistant secretary my focus will be straightforward.
▶ 0:37:33Mr. Lilly: Keeping our national parks open, safe, and properly staffed for the family to visit them, supporting the men and women of the fish and wildlife service in their work to recover species and to sustain healthy habitat, and confronting the deferred maintenance backlog that affects both visitor safety and the conditions of these treasured places. I will work hand-in-hand with our state, tribal, and local partners and with the gateway communities whose livelihood depends on these lands to advance both conservation and access.
▶ 0:38:06Mr. Lilly: In closing, I want to share a moment that defines this vision. After this year's artemis ii mission the first time americans flew around the moon in more than 50 years, the mission commander, who by his own account was not a religious man, describing so overwhelmed by the vision from space of our earth illuminated by the sun that back aboard the recovery ship you broke down in tears at the
▶ 0:38:36Mr. Lilly: Simple side of a chaplain's cross. Recently at yosemite national park I woke to see the sun cresting above half dome. I was also overwhelmed with that same sense of awe and grace. It is that moment that I hope each american can share in some way and experience. That our nation's children can find comfort not in the virtual world but in the creators world.
▶ 0:39:04Mr. Lilly: Our national parks, our wildlife refuges are the salvation of the american soul. I commit to you on the committee I will remain in unwavering steward of the precious resources under my watch and ensuring americans can enjoy the land safely and fully today and in generations to come. Thank you for this opportunity to appear before you and I'm prepared to answer your questions.
▶ 0:39:30Chair Capito: Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to your family and thank you for being here. Thank you for your service to our country in more ways than one. To begin this we have three standing yes or no questions that we ask all nominees who appear before us. So I will ask you these pretty straightforward questions.
▶ 0:39:49Chair Capito: You agree, if confirmed, to appear before this committee or designated members of this committee and other appropriate committees of this congress to provide information subject to appropriated necessary security perfections with respect to your responsibilities?
▶ 0:40:03Mr. Lilly: Yes, ma'am.
▶ 0:40:04Chair Capito: You agree testimony briefings, electronic, and other forms of communication of information are provided to this committee and its staff and other appropriate committees in timely -- timely is the key -- a timely manner?
▶ 0:40:18Mr. Lilly: Yes, ma'am.
▶ 0:40:19Chair Capito: Finally, you know of any matters that you may or may not have disclosed that would place you in a conflict of interest if you are confirmed?
▶ 0:40:27Mr. Lilly: No, ma'am.
▶ 0:40:28Chair Capito: With that I will start with my round of questioning. This morning I had an interesting experience with the national park service and that I was given a preview of the under croft of the lincoln memorial, which will be opening tomorrow to the public. It is an extremely interesting and extremely well done presentation of how the monument was built.
▶ 0:40:54Chair Capito: It will be a welcome respite for some visitors because it is air-conditioned in there and it has great bathrooms, which all visitors are looking for. But it is a real testament to the national park service and their talents to have this done in three years. I hope anybody listening, make sure on a visit to washington you make sure you do that, since it will be open from 9:00 to
▶ 0:41:16Nine : 00. My talk I'm glad you enjoyed it.
▶ 0:41:18Chair Capito: It was great. The U.S. district court district of columbia vacated the biological opinion that governed consultations under the endangered species act for coal mining activities in states that have primacy under sacra. This leaves states like west virginia in tremendous lung vote in respect to how the esa reviews will be carried out. We did have director -- in front of the committee.
▶ 0:41:49Chair Capito: Do I have your commitment to work with the office of surface mining, the west virginia department of protection in the mining industry on a path for that allows esa consultations to take place in an efficient manner and avoid unnecessary delays in the permitting process in the wake of this court decision?
▶ 0:42:07Mr. Lilly: Yes, ma'am.
▶ 0:42:10Chair Capito: Thank you very much. Let's talk about permitting reform. As you know we are in dire need of permitting reform. This is something we've said for years. Senator whitehouse and I are working with our staffs very diligently with the energy and natural resources committee. We need the ability to build critical restart -- critical infrastructure and in a timely manner but in the right way. One of the biggest hurdles that projects can face is under the esa consultation.
▶ 0:42:36Chair Capito: In this position how will you work with the director to ensure that the implementation of the esa protects endangered species without a stonewalling effect?
▶ 0:42:49Mr. Lilly: Yes, I've spent a great amount of time with director nesvik and at the fish and wildlife staff the department of the interior. The fundamental reality is many things, while well intended, become subject to the unintended consequences of their own actions. I think that is reflected in the endangered species act.
▶ 0:43:20Mr. Lilly: I think when it was established in 1973 and passed at that time by unanimous vote it was as if some people called it a wildlife management process in which the objective was to recover and delist species. Consequently the delisting species should be received with great fanfare and celebration. It should be something we continue to work toward rather than something to battle against.
▶ 0:43:49Mr. Lilly: It seems that in some sort of a perverse sense that while we receive -- when we have successes we are immediately sued. There are those that while we go through reasonable science, tremendous hours of biologists, of scientists, population managers, attorneys, the public and put, when all of the science has culminated to come up with an answer, and yet it can be
▶ 0:44:20Mr. Lilly: Whisked away through judicial review, that does not work towards the benefit I think of either the species or the american people. The only thing it benefits our legal fees and the perpetual litigious nature that the esa has become. To answer your question directly, ma'am, working towards esa reform is a benefit to all.
▶ 0:44:44Mr. Lilly: I believe it is a bipartisan reality to deregulate, to protect our environment, to protect our species, no question , but also to be reasonable and not use it as a burden upon american industry, upon private landowners, on tribal communities, and upon stakeholders.
▶ 0:45:07Chair Capito: Thank you. I have a minute left. This is not a brief topic, but it is the national parks. Obviously, they are stellar. West virginia's national park was signed into law by president trump in 2020 as the latest park, the 63rd park. I mentioned its success is a real source of pride for all of us in our state.
▶ 0:45:27Chair Capito: How will you -- how will you use your professional background to strengthen local economies and grow towards them in our national parks? That is a big question for a 22nd answer.
▶ 0:45:41Mr. Lilly: It is a great answer and leads to other concerns. My background -- and if I have to stop I guess I can answer it later -- but, the national park service is one of the most complex ecosystems and organizations in the united states and united states government.
▶ 0:46:02Mr. Lilly: The multiple sources of revenue, capital leases, deferred maintenance, law enforcement, housing, concession contracts, trademarks, ip, bridges, tunnels, golf courses, dealing with gateway communities, and realizing that the balance that must exist in the collaboration with all of these varying components, which I have spent a career as a fiduciary dealing with and having some degree of experience in, and also working
▶ 0:46:35Mr. Lilly: With these businesses that are so reliant upon the success of the parks is so important. One of the things I do, every time I go to a park, I make sure I spend a tremendous amount of time in round tables with local business, community, and tribal leaders. I want to hear directly from them how we can better serve one another to serve the american people. To make this not a mutually exclusive relationship but an inclusive one.
▶ 0:47:06Chair Capito: Senator whitehouse.
▶ 0:47:08Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you very much, Mr. lilly, for joining me yesterday to discuss the issues the interior department is facing. Thank you for your service in our military. I would like to talk with you about the reflecting pool, as we discussed yesterday.
▶ 0:47:29Sen. Whitehouse: At the moment the park police are making arrests around the reflecting pool. The president has claimed that vandals, quoting him, took some form of knife or blade and put a 250 foot gash into the beautiful façade that took so much work, competence, and money to complete. He increased the estimate to 300 feet, then 350 feet.
▶ 0:48:01Sen. Whitehouse: Insisting that it was, quoting him again, cut and powerfully lifted off the surface leaving jagged, uneven edges. He was asked what proof there wasn't any of that since it doesn't seem to be visible to any other person. He said, well, you will have to go see the parks department. They will show it to you. Or, see the secretary. But I saw it. We have pictures. He also said, you will see it in court.
▶ 0:48:32Sen. Whitehouse: So, you were asked that you were a police commissioner in texas, I understand -- so, you were a police commissioner in texas, I understand it. When people visiting the reflecting pool are being arrested, handcuffed, and dragged away by your police officers, you would like to think they have proper probable cause to arrest someone. I grew up in the foreign service.
▶ 0:49:00Sen. Whitehouse: There were plenty of countries in which arrests made to satisfy a political leader's narrative that has basis in fact was something that they did. The american system of justice has not operated that way.
▶ 0:49:18Sen. Whitehouse: What can you tell me here today about what damage was done to the reflecting pool where this 350-foot gash came from and why tourists are being arrested? What is the factual predicate for these arrests?
▶ 0:49:40Mr. Lilly: Yes, sir. Thank you. Indeed, as the son of a police officer and police commissioner I've spent virtually my entire life in and around the law enforcement industry or business. Community, rather.
▶ 0:49:56Sen. Whitehouse: So you would agree with me that arresting tourists to vindicate a political narrative not because of evidence of a crime would be a wrong thing to do if that were what happened, correct?
▶ 0:50:09Mr. Lilly: Senator, the U.S. park police is one of the most extraordinary and historic police department's in the united states founded in 17 89. In the year that I have at the opportunity, pleasure, privilege, and honor to work with them I have been amazingly impressed by their professionalism, their training, their discipline, their service, and their duty in service to this district and people that live here.
▶ 0:50:33Sen. Whitehouse: Which is why these incidents seem so aggravating.
▶ 0:50:39Mr. Lilly: Consequently, sir, I would say -- and I think all people would agree -- that ensuring law and order is maintained -- for anyone to imply, and I'm not saying you are, that the U.S. park police in any way used political motivation to carry out their duties I think would be unjust and in some ways an egregious accusation.
▶ 0:51:09Sen. Whitehouse: What was the predicate, then. Was there a 350 foot gash done by a vandal?
▶ 0:51:19Mr. Lilly: I have no doubt that the police officers involved in the apprehension of these vandals, I believe there were five, were doing their duty enforcing the law appropriately, and I think all of us should recognize and believe that mentalism of any kind is an affront to civilized society. It hurts everyone.
▶ 0:51:38Sen. Whitehouse: The question is, was there vandalism? Did someone cut a 350 foot gash in the reflecting pool at what vandalism to these individuals do? Is it vandalism to pick a piece of floating peeled paint out of the reflecting pool? People have run through the reflecting pool in the past. The president drove through the reflecting pool, apparently.
▶ 0:52:01Mr. Lilly: I stand by my statement the U.S. park police stood by their business of protecting the city in an appropriate manner. There was no malfeasance, nor was there any political motivation to it. Furthermore, sir, as you know, this is an ongoing investigation. Consequently I am not in a position to share that information publicly. Once it is available, publicly, I'm happy to meet with you. I met with you yesterday, sir. I will meet you anytime.
▶ 0:52:28Sen. Whitehouse: Was there or was there not a 350 foot gash in the reflecting pool?
▶ 0:52:33Mr. Lilly: I stand by my statement, sir.
▶ 0:52:36Sen. Whitehouse: Your statement doesn't answer the question.
▶ 0:52:39Mr. Lilly: I stand by my statement, sir.
▶ 0:52:40Sen. Whitehouse: You don't want to answer the question. I can see why. You are in a terrible position because the president has made up a 350-foot gash and unfortunately now police officers are being put in the position of having to make arrests that I fear will fare badly" because there is nothing about touching the reflecting pool or picking up a piece of floating, peeling paint that amounts to vandalism as a matter of law. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 0:53:09Chair Capito: Senator curtis.
▶ 0:53:14Sen. Curtis: It occurs to me as I think about my state that two thirds is owned by the federal government. I have counties over 94 percent federally owned. We have five national parks. You might be the most important nominee to come before me. For many reasons. So, I'm grateful for this opportunity. I did catch very carefully your claim of two eagle scouts.
▶ 0:53:41Sen. Curtis: I also am the father of two eagle scouts, and I can tell you from my experience, as fathers we have no business in taking credit for it because we all know it is the mother who pushes them through those requirements. To your wife, congratulations on your two eagle scouts. I appreciate the decision to end the time interest system at arches national park. Are you familiar with that? Were you involved with that?
▶ 0:54:08Mr. Lilly: Absolutely, sir.
▶ 0:54:08Sen. Curtis: For many that system became an unnecessary barrier to access of public lands. Myself, I waited in line for over an hour with a reservation a year or two ago. It also created real challenges for small businesses. You mentioned gateway communities a couple of times. The reservation portal doesn't fix the problem. It manages scarcity rather than actually solving the problem.
▶ 0:54:33Sen. Curtis: As we enter the busiest months of the year, rather than limiting access our focus should be on managing demand, investing in infrastructure, improving the visitors' experience. Importantly we need our parks to be easily accessible to the public. Your description of growing up, being in the outdoors was similar to mine. It was my scouting experience that was actually part of that. I think the more we make that accessible to people of the healthier we actually are as a society.
▶ 0:55:02Sen. Curtis: Can you walk us through the specific steps of the -- the department of interior is taking to improve congestion, traffic flow, and improved better -- visitor experience at arches so more people can enjoy the park without waiting?
▶ 0:55:16Mr. Lilly: One of the things I have mentioned many times is when I first arrived at the job I told the staff, I told our politicos and careers, we would never refer to an american citizen as a guest in a national park, because they own it. Our parks are owned by the american people. Consequently, it is incumbent upon us to ensure that americans have access to their parks which they own.
▶ 0:55:47Mr. Lilly: I believe in certain cases -- sir, you specifically mentioned arches. The timed entry was a deterrent. In fact, the numbers play out. I was at arches earlier this year. I met with gateway community members.
▶ 0:56:06Mr. Lilly: I looked at the demographics, at the economic analysis of the city of moab, and I realized and was told I members of the county commission that moab actually had a 500,000 person reduction in visitor attendance. That is a catastrophic effect. And it was referred to as recessionary upon the city of moab.
▶ 0:56:32Mr. Lilly: That when they began timed entry attendance and visitation in moab decreased. Hotels, restaurants, concession, all suffered. The way we can combat the sort of perceived issue of congestion is I think we have used an extraordinary semi pilot program in yosemite which has been incredibly successful.
▶ 0:57:02Mr. Lilly: It involves technology. It involves utilization of fast lanes. It involves utilization of licensed readers. It involves -- I'm not sure I can say this publicly. Can I say the chick-fil-a model? I guess we all know what that is. Using tablets in order to work to decrease the congestion and allow the more rapid access, ingress and egress, in and out of a park. We saw that most recently at yosemite and at arches as well.
▶ 0:57:33Sen. Curtis: I will jump in because of time. I would really like to engage with you. You and I have the fortunate situation where a visit to arches is actually part of our job. May I express a desire to engage with you to solve these problems ? Arches has another entry that is not used. There are lots of choices.
▶ 0:57:58Sen. Curtis: The community cares deeply about preserving and protecting it, but they also care deeply about those 500,000 people who didn't have the experience that we know they could have had. Thank you for that commitment. I will carry that back to them. I would also like to point out throughout utah we have these great weight communities. I would like you to be equally engaged in all of our five national parks. I will meet you there. My team will meet your team there.
▶ 0:58:23Sen. Curtis: Anything we can do to rectify the situation where we are preserving, protecting, but also optimizing these parks in our state would be very much appreciated.
▶ 0:58:32Mr. Lilly: There is indeed a balance. Yes, sir.
▶ 0:58:36Sen. Curtis: I am out of time.
▶ 0:58:39Chair Capito: Senator merkley.
▶ 0:58:40Sen. Merkley: Madame chairman, Mr. lilly. We were able to talk previously about the challenge of increasing pollinator plans, because in organized agriculture it has become more efficient. There are fewer wild species, if you will. I mentioned alexander spotlighted a program for roadside pollinator plants.
▶ 0:59:08Sen. Merkley: If I recall right, you mentioned in texas there is a program for using roadsides as massive pollinator fields -- pollinator plants in the side?
▶ 0:59:21Mr. Lilly: Yes, sir. The wildflower program initiated by lady bird johnson is a stable future of texas along both our federal and state highways. --staple feature of texas along both our federal and state highways.
▶ 0:59:40Sen. Merkley: A drop in our pollinators including the monarch, the western monarch has almost disappeared, twice almost extinct. The one idea that we had worked on and passed it along and funded was for groups to adopt sections of the interstate highway system to plant pollinator gardens, but also that some rancers are working to -- some renters are working to
▶ 1:00:12Sen. Merkley: -- some ranchers are working on their grazing lands that serve cattle also scattering wildflower seeds. I would like to know if you will continue to work with us to increase the pollinator population, if you will come of these wild species? With a special interest in my part for the western monarch?
▶ 1:00:32Mr. Lilly: Yes, sir. I enjoyed spending time with you last week in your office. Certainly. I am intrigued by the programs that we use in the state of texas and to see how we can think about those types of measures as it relates to this particular situation. I'm happy to work with you, sir.
▶ 1:00:55Sen. Merkley: The klamath basin has suffered a lot of drought and has a high conflicting demands for water between farming, ranching, in lake with some endangered species, and in the klamath river. That requires very conscientious effort to provide support for that klamath basin.
▶ 1:01:21Sen. Merkley: We have done various programs to try to make sure water is available when needed for ranching and farming or to be able to receive -- seasonally retire water rights so farmers and ranchers do not go out of business, and to improve the conditions in the lake. Lg has gotten a lot of attention in the reflecting pool, but lg with rising temperatures -- but lg with rising temperatures and rising amounts of phosphorus in our waters is an issue all across the country.
▶ 1:01:51Sen. Merkley: Very difficult challenge. So, I would like to know if you have had a chance to examine any of that collaboration going on in the klamath basin and can be supportive of our efforts to address those multiple needs?
▶ 1:02:07Mr. Lilly: After our meeting we discussed that. I met with director nesvik on that topic. As I mentioned and as you know, water is an extraordinarily important issue at the department of the interior, especially in the department of water and science, especially as it relates to water rights, irrigation, and so absolutely, senator, I look forward to working with your staff and working with my team on this issue.
▶ 1:02:38Sen. Merkley: Thank you. One of the concerns I've had is whether the administration executes programs that are duly authorized and funded by congress? Because I feel this is a constitutional issue that the power of the purse rests with congress. Occasionally, sometimes more than occasionally, there have been programs where the administration has not distributed the funds.
▶ 1:03:05Sen. Merkley: One area that I am particularly concerned about is that of the international affairs program for the fish and wildlife service. These are the multinational species conservation funding. For the united states to participate in programs that reduce the illegal trading of animal parts.
▶ 1:03:30Sen. Merkley: There is some of the syndicates involved in drugs and terrorism also make money smuggling animal parts of rare species. And also to try to have a world for the generations to come that still have rhinos and orangutans and tigers and so forth.
▶ 1:03:50Sen. Merkley: So, with this program can you commit to making sure that the funds appropriated by congress are duly dispersed in a timely fashion to the various groups that are working on these issues?
▶ 1:04:08Mr. Lilly: Senator, I am aware of that issue. In my prior experience working with trafficking, one of the most critical functions we dealt with. Human trafficking, and will trafficking, all of it is run by cartels. It is an enormous business. I can commit to you all so that we are working to enhance and increase our law enforcement capabilities as it relates to our special agents within the fish and wildlife.
▶ 1:04:36Mr. Lilly: I will work with your office or thank you. Specifically, I am asking if you can make sure that the moneys that has been appropriated and authorized will be timely disbursed and get to these international organizations for the work they are doing?
▶ 1:04:55Mr. Lilly: I will work to that end, yes.
▶ 1:05:00Chair Capito: Senator husted.
▶ 1:05:01Sen. Husted: . Thank you, chairman capito. Mr. lilly, great to have you here in the committee today. I had the opportunity last week to visit a state park with our ohio department of natural resources director mary mertz and a congressman who has been very involved in issues regarding wildlife in ohio and natural places.
▶ 1:05:30Sen. Husted: I have been engaged in these issues pretty much my entire life. I have seen how concerted efforts can change things for the better. We had a chance to meet with a bunch of sportsmen's groups and environmental groups and habitat groups, you name it. We recounted the number of fish species that are on the recovery . Bird species. Predator species.
▶ 1:06:06Sen. Husted: Habitat recovery. A large amount of wetlands have been restored in ohio. To help serve as a buffer for nitrogen phosphorus runoff from agriculture, to absorb more of that, dealt make sure we don't have algae blooms in lake erie, but it creates an enormous amount of new habitat for wildlife as well.
▶ 1:06:30Sen. Husted: But we also know there are also struggles with invasive species, invasive plants. There are certain types of plants that overtake these wetlands. I was just -- you see all this progress that has been made through these concerted efforts. It's great. It's fantastic. We know it's possible.
▶ 1:06:58Sen. Husted: In that context, I'm interested, what is your view as you look at the responsibility you have? I will talk about the great lakes, but across the country? What more can we do to make sure the people of our nation get a chance to experience more wild spaces? More public lands that are fruitful for these types of recreational purposes?
▶ 1:07:26Sen. Husted: It is a huge economic benefit, but also a huge benefit to the quality of life.
▶ 1:07:31Mr. Lilly: Thank you. Thank you for that question. I enjoyed spending time with you last week as well. I think it is sort of a multifaceted question. One, as it relates to the wetlands that you referred to and a sort of the natural buffer that they provide, we continuously work with items such as varying grant programs, etc.
▶ 1:07:59Mr. Lilly: We work with communities and estates on their wetlands, on the preservation of wetlands. I, personally, am a duck hunter. I recognize the importance of maintaining our flyaway's and maintaining our wetlands appropriately such that and so that it can continue to be enjoyed, not just for hunting, but also for recreation.
▶ 1:08:20Sen. Husted: One of the big things we have in that part of the state in lake erie are birdwatchers that come in the spring to see the enormous migration we have of birds coming back from canada.
▶ 1:08:33Mr. Lilly: Absolutely. The opportunity for birding -- is extraordinary. This type of habitat improvement works toward that particular recreation. Secondly, the other part of your question had to do with invasive species. If I may, I will answer that.
▶ 1:08:58Sen. Husted: Please.
▶ 1:09:00Mr. Lilly: Invasive species, as we talked about, the sea lampreys, the invasive carp, is an enormous problem, but not just in fish. It is also dealing with pythons in florida. It is dealing with feral hogs in texas which is an enormous problem. One of the things we are working on specifically to answer your question is the use of technology to combat that problem. Drone use. Algorithmic research.
▶ 1:09:32Mr. Lilly: Tracking. Statistical analysis. Probability analysis. So we can more efficiently locate where they are. Part of it is finding them. Especially with four-like it invasive species. To continue to work -- four -legged invasive species. To continue to work. It is a problem and one we need to spend more time on.
▶ 1:10:03Sen. Husted: I can say that this is always big. As an ohioan we have seen lake erie recover in amazing ways. It is very successful. A very successful recovery, but we still have issues like algae blooms, the phosphorus and nitrogen. The big concern I can tell you is the invasive plants, the invasive, you know, lamprey.
▶ 1:10:35Sen. Husted: Potentially the invasive carp. All of these are of concern. I know you have a lot of demands and I just ask that you keep your eye on how we can continue to protect against those challenges and continue to mitigate successfully as we have.
▶ 1:10:50Mr. Lilly: Yes, sir, and we certainly do.
▶ 1:10:53Sen. Husted: Thank you.
▶ 1:10:55Chair Capito: Senator lummis is on her way. I will give her a minute or so and I will take license to ask you something I mentioned in my opening statement. It is back to my new river gorge park and preserve. I mentioned we had not really had a full-time superintendent. We are getting off the ground. Numerous visitors. Challenges on infrastructure.
▶ 1:11:19Chair Capito: It is not a very large by what we see in states like utah and others, but it is exceedingly important. It needs the full attention of a full-time superintendent. I would hope that when you are confirmed that I have your commitment that a new superintendent, permanent, would be focusing solely on the new river gorge park and preserve would be something that west
▶ 1:11:50Chair Capito: Virginians could look forward to?
▶ 1:11:52Mr. Lilly: I'm honored that new river gorge is the 63rd and most recent national park the national park service. And I think your question is a great one for multiple reasons. Not just new river gorge. I think it is the importance of leadership in an organization.
▶ 1:12:10Mr. Lilly: One of the benefits that I have had of having a bit of a diverse background is understanding the culture within an organization is critical. Creating a culture of excellence, responsibility, accountability, always starts with the leaders on the ground. And within the national park service. And with the fish and wildlife and our refuge managers.
▶ 1:12:39Mr. Lilly: A park superintendent can make a huge difference. And, especially as it relates to parks that sometimes are remote. I have made a commitment to the secretary and to the national park service that I am taking a personal interest in our hiring and development of our leadership. Not just at the -- not just at the superintendent level, but the deputy superintendent levels as well.
▶ 1:13:11Mr. Lilly: I completely agree that finding strong leadership for a park as important as yours to the people of west virginia is paramount and one I'm fully committed to endeavor toward.
▶ 1:13:24Chair Capito: Senator whitehouse, did you have another question?
▶ 1:13:28Sen. Whitehouse: If there have been any requests made to the interior office of inspector general to look into the situation at the reflecting pool , how the contracts were let, how the contracts were administered, what actually happened? Was it the hydrogen peroxide that tore up the paint? What is going on over there?
▶ 1:13:54Sen. Whitehouse: It seems like it is ig material and I think you do have an inspector general. Has any referral then made to the inspector general for another set of eyeballs?
▶ 1:14:04Mr. Lilly: We have an inspector general that is an independent body. To my knowledge I don't know of any inspector general inquiry or process as it relates to this topic.
▶ 1:14:18Sen. Whitehouse: Should there be?
▶ 1:14:21Mr. Lilly: Inspector general programs can be launched by anyone at any time. So, I am not in a position to opine on whether one is warranted or not.
▶ 1:14:37Sen. Whitehouse: I am sorry, you are not -- you are the acting supervisor of the department, right?
▶ 1:14:44Mr. Lilly: I think that your question implies there is malfeasance involved. I would argue there is not.
▶ 1:14:51Sen. Whitehouse: So there's no need for the inspector general to have a look?
▶ 1:14:55Mr. Lilly: I believe we have conducted ourselves legally. I believe the contracts have been done and I know the contracts have been done by warranted contracting officers that are licensed by the federal government, that are career professionals, that are excellent at their job. I believe everything that has happened with this project, as well as all construction projects, are done in compliance with the law.
▶ 1:15:19Sen. Whitehouse: I guess as further examination continues, we will find out. Thank you.
▶ 1:15:26Chair Capito: With no further questions and no other members, although I hear summer coming, they need to speed it along. I would like to thank you, Mr. lilly, for being here this morning and all my colleagues who participated. Senators who wish to submit written questions for the record have until 5:00 p.m. On wednesday, july 1 to do so. The nominees responses to those questions are due back no later than 5:00 p.m. On wednesday, july 8.
▶ 1:15:56Chair Capito: With that, this hearing is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]