▶ 0:18:40Chair Cassidy: The senate committee on health, education, labor, and pensions will come to order. We still have a few people here, so I will make my remarks, punishing people who came early. If confirmed Mr. james macy and david prouty would be charged with resolving labor disputes and protecting workers rights under federal law.
▶ 0:19:06Chair Cassidy: This means clearing the backlog of cases caused by the biden administration and restoring certainty for workers in the nation's economy. Mr. prouty has been confirmed once before as he served as a member of the nlrb for five years and has been re-nominated president trump. Mr. macy has decades of legal experience as an attorney negotiating collective bargaining agreements bringing common sense and on the ground perspectives to decisions.
▶ 0:19:34Chair Cassidy: We now have the opportunity to put workers first and maintain the board's quorum so it works as intended. Also working on Dr. brett matsumoto's nomination to be the commissioner of labor statistics. Significant revisions undermining trust and critical products that impact everyday americans' finances. He would be tasked with bringing innovation and accuracy to our nation's economic data.
▶ 0:20:03Chair Cassidy: We are voting on michael mcdonald to be president of the national endowment for the humanities. His confirmation will allow for further preparations for the nation's queen centennial implementation of policies to combat anti-semitism on college campuses and the reorganization of deserving scholars. With that I recognize senator sanders.
▶ 0:20:22Sen. Sanders: Mr. chairman, I support david prouty's renomination to serve on the nlrb board and oppose president trump's three other nominees who are considering today. We need members who protect the constitutional rights of workers to form a union, the vast majority workers in america want to form unions. They are stopped illegally time and time again.
▶ 0:20:45Sen. Sanders: That is the kind -- those are the kinds of people we need on the nlrb that will protect workers. In my view Mr. prouty will do that. I'm afraid william macy, the republican nominee who has spent most of his career representing the interests of management, will not. That is not just my opinion. Reportedly it is with the afl-cio representing 50 million american workers believe.
▶ 0:21:11Sen. Sanders: June 25 the afl-cio sent a letter stating, "we urge you to defend the nlrb's independence and worker's access to a fair day in court by maintaining its quorum with the advancement of member prouty's nomination and declining to report Mr. macy's nomination to the senate floor." 's I ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record.
▶ 0:21:40Sen. Sanders: I ask unanimous consent to enter this record from the afl-cio.
▶ 0:21:45Chair Cassidy: Without objection.
▶ 0:21:46Sen. Sanders: I will also vote no on Mr. matsumoto's nomination to serve as the commissioner of labor statistics. In my view we need a bls commission who will give us accurate and unbiased statistics on the unemployment rate in american workforce, not someone who will tell the president what he wants to hear. Unfortunately I do not believe Mr. matsumoto will exercise the independence necessary for this important job. Finally, I am opposed to Mr. mcdonald's nomination to serve as chairman of the national endowment for the humanities.
▶ 0:22:17Sen. Sanders: Mr. mcdonald has repeatedly signed off on using funds for projects that benefit president trump including his attempt to build trump's absurd art in the nation's capital without congressional authorization. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:22:31Chair Cassidy: Singh the quorum is present I will now move to favorably report Mr. macy's nomination. The clerk will call the roll. I shall be voting yes. >> [clerk calling the roll]
▶ 0:23:01Chair Cassidy: Senator baldwin. Senator murphy. Senator kaine. Senator hassan. Senator hickenlooper. Senator markey. Senator kim. Senator blunt rochester. Senator alsobrooks. Senator husted.
▶ 0:23:32Chair Cassidy: Unless a democrat wishes to change their vote we are going to wait for senator husted. But I will also inform that the passage of Mr. macy predicates what we do with Mr. prouty.
▶ 0:26:03Chair Cassidy: We are told senator who said it in the building. I will vote for david prouty if a democrat will flip and vote for macy but we will not vote for prouty unless we get macy.
▶ 0:26:40Chair Cassidy: >> senator husted. Chairman cassidy. 12 ayes, 11 nays. Senator baldwin.
▶ 0:26:58Sen. Baldwin: What is the question? >> I have 12 ayes, 11 nays.
▶ 0:27:12Chair Cassidy: It will be favorably reported to the senate. We moved to Dr. matsumoto's voting. The clerk will call the roll. I will be voting yes. >> [clerk calling the roll] senator paul. Senator collins. Senator murkowski. Senator marshall. Senator scott. Senator hawley. Senator tuberville. Senator banks. Senator husted. Senator moody. Senator armstrong. Senator sanders. Senator murray.
▶ 0:27:42Chair Cassidy: Senator baldwin. Senator murphy. Senator kaine. Senator hassan. Senator hickenlooper. Senator markey. Senator kim. Senator alsobrooks. 12 ayes, 11 nays.
▶ 0:27:55Chair Cassidy: The ayes have it. >> [clerk calling the roll] senator paul. Senator collins. Senator murkowski. Senator marshall. Senator scott. Senator hawley. Senator tuberville. Senator banks. Senator husted. Senator moody. Senator armstrong. Senator sanders. Senator murray. Senator baldwin. Senator murphy. Senator came. -- senator kaine.
▶ 0:28:25Chair Cassidy: Senator hassan. Senator hickenlooper. Senator markey. Senator kim. Senator blunt rochester. Senator alsobrooks. Chairman cassidy? 12 ayes, 11 ndays.
▶ 0:28:38Chair Cassidy: The ayes have it. We will move to Mr. prouty. >> [clerk calling the roll] >> senator paul. Senator collins. Senator murkowski. Senator marshall. Senator scott. Senator hawley. Senator tuberville. Senator banks. Senator husted. Senator moody. Senator armstrong. Senator sanders. Senator murray. Senator baldwin.
▶ 0:29:09Chair Cassidy: Senator murphy. Senator kaine. Senator hassan. Senator hickenlooper. Senator markey. Senator kim. Senator blunt rochester. Senator alsobrooks. Chairman cassidy. 17 ayes, 6 nays.
▶ 0:29:31Chair Cassidy: The nomination is a great two and is favorably reported to the senate. -- is agreed to and favorably reported to the senate. The committee stands adjourned. [gavel falls]
▶ 0:35:02Chair Cassidy: The senate health, education, labor, and pensions committee will please come to order. Thank you for appearing before the committee for your willingness to serve. A lot of this conversation for me is going to resolve of does revolve around vaccines. Vaccines should be settled. But right now there is a lot a flurry of misinformation when it comes to immunizations. So now that matters a lot to me.
▶ 0:35:27Chair Cassidy: When I attended lsu by had a professor who drove to work every day quadruple leader from polio. If the polio vaccine had been available he would have lived a life ambulatory like everyone else. But as it was, his whole life was, every night, sleeping with something to help him breathe. A routine, inexpensive vaccine which was not available, had it been available, would have altered his life tremendously.
▶ 0:35:53Chair Cassidy: I told this story before of 19-year-old patient I had as a physician with acute hepatitis b. 18 years old. Having to send her a liver transplant win a $50 vaccine would have prevented that. There is misinformation all over the place, including that hepatitis b vaccine can cause autism and things like that. It is absurd. It is undermining trust. Part of what we are trying to do is reestablish trust in public health, you have to wonder why people would spread that misinformation.
▶ 0:36:26Chair Cassidy: So why don't we have trust? Well, they didn't trust it under president biden, they don't trust it under president trump, they don't trust it under secretary kennedy, I can't say we can point a finger at anyone thing, but I will say the agencies you seek to lead are integral to the united states public health and medical preparedness and response capabilities. To do your jobs you need buy-in from the american people. According to a recent study the percentage of U.S.
▶ 0:36:49Chair Cassidy: Adults reporting high confidence in the centers for disease control and prevention fell from 82 percent in february of 2020 to 56% in june 2022, along with decreasing trust in other U.S. health institutions. Mr. kaufman, Dr. schwartz, you are smart and experienced in the have the opportunity and responsibility if you get these jobs to rebuild public trust. The U.S. needs to be ready for the next emergency.
▶ 0:37:16Chair Cassidy: The ebola outbreak in africa is spreading far more likely than people thought it would and they are not quite sure how it is. My staff here wrote cyclospora causing outbreaks throughout the country. It is something that it starts with a c and ends with sis.
▶ 0:37:45Chair Cassidy: If you get it, tell yourself to a toilet for the next, you know, whatever. But that is a public health issue which is obviously impacting us. We need smarter strategies and we need a better investment with the limited resources we have, whether at the cdc, the strategic national stockpile, or the industrial base programs. Again, how do we get to where public trust is broken down? Clearly mistakes were made during covid-19.
▶ 0:38:14Chair Cassidy: Under the biden administration, the cdc failed to communicate crucial information and allowed outside political groups like teachers unions to influence whether schools were safe to be open as opposed to relying on scientific data. Aspirate is less well known but plays a role in making sure first responders at the supplies they need when they need them.
▶ 0:38:36Chair Cassidy: In addition to deploying products and supporting us manufacturing, it coordinates the federal medical response and supports the development of lifesaving tests, treatments, and vaccines. It played a leading role in operation warp speed. Demonstrating what can be accomplished when the government works quickly and responsibly with the private sector. It will work with potentially mrna vaccines.
▶ 0:39:01Chair Cassidy: Mrna vaccines which some people wish to cast doubt on other than people don't understand it so let's cast doubt upon it. Beyond covid, misinformation about the safety of routine vaccinations creates skepticism. Imagine that. Mothers and fathers confused as to whether vaccines are safe to give their children. As a result we see thousands getting measles.
▶ 0:39:27Chair Cassidy: We see unfortunately deaths from measles, a vaccine-preventable disease. Just lying at the feet of folks who are casting misinformation at these issues. Parents shouldn't have to guess if information on the cdc's website reflects the best available science rather than the preferences of political appointees. This is what has led to children being hospitalized and dying from diseases, preventable, with the vaccine.
▶ 0:39:57Chair Cassidy: Let me be clear, and I say this not as anything but an analysis of the data. Vaccines are overwhelmingly safe and effective. They have saved countless lives. Study after study shows they do not cause autism whether they are given at birth or later in life. Hepatitis b is not just transmitted sexually or through drug users. The best way to stop somebody from ending up with costly and expensive liver failure is through a birth dose.
▶ 0:40:28Chair Cassidy: As a physician, as I mentioned, I have had patients die from diseases they would not have died from had they been immunized. Any equivocation of these facts and I shall not be able to support your nomination, because when trust is destroyed it is hard to be effective. I go back to being a doctor. As a physician you're taught to search for the truth and use the truth for your solutions. It is the only way you make the correct diagnosis and the correct prescription. Mr. kaufman, we met in my office, a very pleasant visit.
▶ 0:40:59Chair Cassidy: I will say that things have come to light since then in the press that have been sent to me that you have previously made comments regarding vaccines causing autism and questioned the necessity of the birth dose of hepatitis b. Additionally you have said that you hate the cdc. I'm going to give you a chance -- you're going to be involved and you hate the cdc? What is going on there?
▶ 0:41:23Chair Cassidy: Turmoil at the top of the nation's top public health agency is not good for the health of the american people and it raises questions about how other agencies like it operates. We need leaders to make decisions based on science and ideology and protecting children's health. Some of my colleagues on the others expressed regret for not voting to confirm Dr. monarez to lead the cdc. Today we will again have a very strong nominee to lead the cdc.
▶ 0:41:54Chair Cassidy: Ask you to listen with an open mind and consider supporting someone who is a highly qualified nominee committed to facts and science. If confirmed Dr. schwartz and Mr. kaufman, you will be tasked with bringing stability and restoring public trust in hhs. I look forward to hearing how you will accomplish this. With that I recognize senator sanders.
▶ 0:42:12Sen. Sanders: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Let me thank Dr. erica schwartz, who has been nominated to be director for the centers for disease control and prevention, the cdc. And sean kaufman, who has been nominated to be the assistant secretary for preparedness and response, for being with us today. Mr. chairman, let us be clear about the major reason we are here today. It is because secretary kennedy fired Dr.
▶ 0:42:37Sen. Sanders: Susan monarez, the first senate confirmed cdc director, after less than one month on the job. So why did she get fired after being on the job for less than one month? What crime did she commit? Well, I don't think that's complicated. Dr. monarez, it turned out, refused to act as a rubberstamp or secretary kennedy' is very dangerous agenda to limit the use of safe and effective vaccines. Dr.
▶ 0:43:07Sen. Sanders: Monarez stood up and it stood for the scientific method, frankly she stood up for protecting the well-being of the american people. That was the reason she was fired. Mr. chairman, what has taken place in the sense that firing? Last year the united states had the worst measles outbreak in over 30 years with nearly 2300 cases reported.
▶ 0:43:35Sen. Sanders: We are on track to surpass that number this year. In april there was a global outbreak of hantavirus linked to a cruiseship. 13 people got sick and three people died. Now and in outbreak is spreading the democratic republic of the congo and uganda with 1900 cases in over 700 deaths reported. It is the third largest ebola outbreak ever reported and no treatment or vaccines exist yet for this strain.
▶ 0:44:08Sen. Sanders: In the united states vaccination rates are falling. Let me repeat that. Vaccination rates are falling. Children are now in danger of getting sick and dying from illnesses that vaccines could have prevented. Secretary kennedy's response to these crises has been to spread misinformation, fire scientists who would disagree with them, and wage and unprecedented war on science and vaccines that have saved millions of lives. Mr.
▶ 0:44:36Sen. Sanders: Chairman, as you know, our committee received 250 pages of emails from officials at the cdc and hhs that have confirmed what many of us have feared. These emails have shown that secretary kennedy tried to make it more difficult for working families to get vaccines for their children at no cost. He directed cdc staff to pursue the bogus link that vaccines cause autism, a link that has been thoroughly debunked by the scientific and medical community.
▶ 0:45:08Sen. Sanders: He has spread misinformation about the largest measles outbreak in the U.S. and over 30 years. As secretary kennedy stopped a flu vaccination campaign during flu season which killed 16,000 people. Mr.
▶ 0:45:22Sen. Sanders: Chairman, bottom line here is we need people in hhs who have the courage to stand up for science, protect our kids, protecting the health and well-being of the american people and to stand up to a secretary who is moving this country in a very dangerous direction. Thank you.
▶ 0:45:45Chair Cassidy: Chair cassidy: we should now proceed with opening statements. Dr. schwartz.
▶ 0:45:49Dr. Schwartz: Chairman, ranking member, distinguished -- sorry.
▶ 0:45:54Chair Cassidy: Sorry, I am supposed to read your bio. My bad.
▶ 0:46:27Chair Cassidy: We are joined today by Dr. erica schwartz nominated to be the director for the cdc. She is a board-certified and occupational medicine, she served as a navy occupational medicine physician before joining the public health service commissioned corps to serve the coast guard in 2005. She served as the deputy surgeon general from june 20 19th of april 2021. She earned a bs in biomedical engineering and her md from brown university.
▶ 0:46:54Chair Cassidy: An mph from the uniformed services university of health sciences. A jd from the university of maryland. Thank you for being here and thank you for your dedication to public health and military service.
▶ 0:47:04Dr. Schwartz: Thank you, chairman. Chairman, ranking members, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. It is truly an honor to be nominated for the role of director of the centers for disease control and prevention. I would also like to thank president trump and secretary kennedy for the trust they place in me with this nomination.
▶ 0:47:32Dr. Schwartz: I am deeply honored by the opportunity to continue serving our nation. I would also like to recognize my husband, whose unwavering support has made a lifetime of service possible. The most important thing to know about me is I come from a god-fearing military family. My father and my older sister were in the navy. My older brother was in the marines. My younger brother was in the army.
▶ 0:48:00Dr. Schwartz: I had the privilege of serving both in the navy and with the coast guard. For my family, service was not a job. It was a calling. It was a responsibility. And it was an act of faith. My academic career included a biomedical engineering degree and a medical doctorate from brown university, a master of public health in epidemiology, and a law degree.
▶ 0:48:30Dr. Schwartz: After medical school I served as a navy occupational medicine physician and clinical epidemiologist focused on protecting service members from hazardous exposures while learning public health from a mission-first operational perspective.
▶ 0:48:48Dr. Schwartz: I later transferred to the united states public health service and was detailed to the coast guard where I focused on force health protection for responders in major national and global crises, including hurricanes katrina and rita, the 2010 haiti earthquake, the deepwater horizon oil spill disaster, and in the west africa ebola outbreak. In each of these moments the men and women of the coast guard counted on me to get it right.
▶ 0:49:20Dr. Schwartz: There was no margin for error. I eventually served at the coast guard's chief medical officer at two star admiral where I was responsible for the coast guard's health care system, safety system, and work-life program. I was later asked to serve as the united states deputy surgeon general.
▶ 0:49:44Dr. Schwartz: During my tenure our nation faced one of the greatest public health threats in modern history . The covid-19 pandemic. One of my core responsibility as well as ensuring access to diagnostic testing without overwhelming the health care system. My team and I rapidly designed and operationalized a scalable public-private solution.
▶ 0:50:11Dr. Schwartz: We established drive-through testing sites in every state, puerto rico, and the district of columbia, testing nearly 11.5 million individuals. Public health is in my dna. I'm here because I want to continue serving our nation and because I believe deeply in the mission of the cdc.
▶ 0:50:37Dr. Schwartz: If confirmed my first priority will be restoring trust in public health institutions, through radical transparency and unwavering scientific integrity. As a cdc director, my sacred responsibility is to provide the american people with public guidance that is clear, honest, and evidence-based. I will never betray the science.
▶ 0:51:05Dr. Schwartz: Second, we must modernize the cdc into a near real-time public health enterprise capable of detecting threats early and responding faster. 21st century threats require 21st century systems. Third, we must empower states, tribes, local communities, and territorial partners as the operational backbone of american public health. Public health works best closest to the people.
▶ 0:51:33Dr. Schwartz: The cdc should provide tools, embedded expertise, operational support, and funding flexibility, not rigid top-down control. The cdc is home to an extraordinarily talented and dedicated workforce. If confirmed I would support them empower them and ensure they have the tools and leadership necessary to succeed.
▶ 0:51:57Dr. Schwartz: At a time when trust in institutions has been challenged , we have the opportunity to restore confidence, strength and scientific integrity, modernize our systems, and refocus on the cdc's core mission, protecting the health and safety of the american people.
▶ 0:52:16Dr. Schwartz: I am committed to working with this committee, with public health leaders across america, with communities across our nation to ensure the cdc fulfills its mission with excellence, integrity, transparency, and accountability. Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:52:36Chair Cassidy: Thank you Dr. schwartz. Next, we are joined by Mr. sean kaufman, and on the need to be the assistant secretary for preparedness and response or aspr. Mr. kaufman earned his master of science and public health degree from san diego state university with a focus on health promotion and behavioral science. He has 30 years of public health experience with a focus on infectious disease preparedness, biosafety, bio security, and emergency response.
▶ 0:53:07Chair Cassidy: He has served in leadership roles at cdc, emory university, and in the private sector were his work focused on improving biosafety through a culture of responsibility. He also founded seyfert behaviors, a firm that delivers behavioral-based training to clients globally. Thank you, sir, for being here. We look forward to hearing from you.
▶ 0:53:27Mr. Kaufman: Thank you, thank you for letting it appear here today.I am deeply honored by this nomination and grateful to president trump, secretary kennedy for their confidence and trust. Most importantly, I thank god and my family. I'm especially grateful to my wife jacqueline, my daughter jamie lynn, and my brother kevin who are with us today.
▶ 0:53:58Mr. Kaufman: I also want to recognize my father, a retired united states marine corps officer, my brother a retired fbi special agent, and my son aiden who currently serves as a united states army aviator flying blackhawk helicopters. Along with my son, sean patrick, my family has dedicated their lives to serving this nation in different ways.
▶ 0:54:17Mr. Kaufman: Their sacrifices and those of my mother have been greater than anyone should ever have to bear in support of my career in public service via their love, encouragement, and unwavering support have made this moment possible. I am forever grateful. I'm deeply thankful for my mentors, my colleagues, and friends who have shaped my career. I also want to recognize the extraordinary men and women who protect america's health every day. Some of which are engaged in -- with people overseas.
▶ 0:54:46Mr. Kaufman: From aspr, cdc, all of the health dutch department of health and human services, laboratories, emergency responders, and organizations like samaritan's purse, these professional stand between crisis and recovery. Today as americans continue supporting response to people overseas, they remind us that preparedness is never theoretical. It is lived every day through service and sacrifice.
▶ 0:55:14Mr. Kaufman: For more than 30 years I have a dedicated my career to protecting people from biological threats. I work began during the hiv-aids pandemic and has included responses to the september 11 attack, the 2000 one anthrax attacks, sars, each, ebola, and covid-19. -- h1n1, ebola, and covid-19.
▶ 0:55:43Mr. Kaufman: Deployed to liberia and nigeria through the west african epidemic in 2014. Throughout my career I worked to strengthen preparedness before disasters occur and improve responses when they do. I have seen firsthand the lifesaving impact of vaccines. Let me be clear. Vaccines save lives.
▶ 0:56:06Mr. Kaufman: They are safe, effective, and remain one of the most important tools in public health for preventing infectious diseases and protecting the american people. The threats facing our nation continue to evolve. We must remain prepared for emerging infectious diseases, deliberate biological threats, and increasingly complex challenges driven by advances in biotechnology, artificial intelligence, and rapidly changing technologies.
▶ 0:56:33Mr. Kaufman: At the same time, chemical, radiological, nuclear, cyber, and natural disasters are all hazards that require an integrated approach that is faster, more agile, and more resilient than ever before. Asper exists to save -- aspr exists to save lives. I will devote myself fully to that mission.
▶ 0:57:01Mr. Kaufman: My priorities will be straightforward. First, I hope to strengthen and reauthorize problem with all of us together to keep pace with today's threats while improving coordination and accountability across the government. Second, I want to accelerate the development of medical countermeasures which includes vaccines, therapeutics, diagnostics, and other lifesaving capabilities so america is never caught unprepared.
▶ 0:57:28Mr. Kaufman: Third, I want to invest in the people who make preparedness possible. Our health care workers, emergency responders, laboratory and's, public health professionals, and scientists entering their trade, quick, and supported for the challenges ahead. Fourth, I would like to modernize how we develop and manufacture stockpile and deliver critical medical resources. So they reach americans quickly win every minute matters.
▶ 0:57:55Mr. Kaufman: And finally, I want to strengthen partnerships across the federal government with our state, local, tribal, and territorial partners while working closely with health care systems. -- health care systems, industry, academia, the nonprofit community. Preparedness is a shared responsibility and our success depends on working together before a crisis, not simply reacting after one begins. Throughout my career I have learned one enduring lesson.
▶ 0:58:24Mr. Kaufman: Preparedness is not measured by what we are doing during a disaster. It is measured by what we do before one arrives and how we commit ourselves to those who have survived. If confirmed, I will lead with integrity, urgency, humility, and accountability.
▶ 0:58:42Mr. Kaufman: I will work every day to ensure that when the next emergency comes, and history tells us it will come of the american people have the confidence that their government is prepared to respond quickly, effectively, compassionately, and in the manner worthy of trust. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:59:03Chair Cassidy: Dr. schwartz, your predecessor was let go because she would not make decisions that she felt -- that she was instructed to make that she felt were going to be better public health. She did not have the ability to demote or reassign people. And she objected to decisions. Because of that she was brought in and browbeaten and eventually let it go.
▶ 0:59:32Chair Cassidy: One, will you commit to this committee and of the american people to have the same integrity as she that if asked to do something which is wrong for public health that you will stand up, as she did, object, if necessary, publicly.
▶ 0:59:47Dr. Schwartz: German, thank you for the question and thank you for meeting with me earlier -- chairman, thank you for the question and to thank you for meeting with me earlier. One thing I can tell he was how I lead and how I live. I have lived and I have lead by my integrity. I've spent over 25 years in the uniformed services, leading by integrity. That is what I can commit it to you and the committee, that I will continue to live and lead by my integrity. You are a physician. I am a physician.
▶ 1:00:15Dr. Schwartz: We both took the hippocratic oath. To me come the hippocratic oath meant I will never harm my patients, their health and well-being took premises. If I'm confirmed as the cdc director, the nation's health and well-being will take premise he and I will never compromise on that.
▶ 1:00:30Chair Cassidy: We know the secretary has put people to the cdc they basically to look for evidence, however they can find it, and fishing expeditions of how vaccines may cause problems. They can't find it, but they keep on doing it. Will you -- have you been told you will have the ability to reassign people who are being counterproductive in terms of promoting trust in public health measures, which have been shown time and time again to be safe?
▶ 1:00:57Dr. Schwartz: Chairman, I'm sitting here because the president moment -- nominated me and the secretary, and I've had conversations. The conversations are about my background.
▶ 1:01:07Chair Cassidy: We have limited time. This is almost eight yes or no. Will you have the ability to reassign, demote, get rid of people who are harmful to our public health venture based upon the scientific knowledge that is generally known because unwavering scientific integrity, as you say, evidence-based and free from political science, not betraying science, standing on science, speaking the truth even in difficult moments, will you
▶ 1:01:39Chair Cassidy: Have the ability to do that free of political interference?
▶ 1:01:43Dr. Schwartz: Chairman, the secretary absolutely will allow me to be the cdc director. That is why I'm sitting here before you.
▶ 1:01:51Chair Cassidy: I almost feel like I am having to go after this question more firmly than I feel like I should. You can be the cdc director and just take orders. We need a cdc director that can stand up to crazy, stupid things being said that undermine faith in immunization. I'm being very direct here. Obviously, I feel like we have thousands of kids hospitalized because people have promoted that immunization is bad and now kids have died because of it.
▶ 1:02:19Chair Cassidy: It is evil to do that and people persist. You are the ball you are the b -- you are the ball work. Will you have the firmness to stand up to that political meddling to stand up and say no, that's wrong and this is right?
▶ 1:02:34Dr. Schwartz: Chairman, you have my assurances that I will continue to lead by my integrity. I will never compromise on the science. I will always, always have the public's health in mind. I've spent over 25 years making sure that my --
▶ 1:02:49Chair Cassidy: That is not quite the direct answer that I'm hoping for. I know that you have been through. One more time. Will you have the ability to say no to the junk science and say yes to that which has been firmly established and stick up for what is actually right and true as opposed to that which is superstition and prejudice?
▶ 1:03:17Dr. Schwartz: Chairman, I have always stood up for what is right and what is true, and I believe I will continue to do that. You have my assurances I will do that. I will never betray the science, ever. I will go where the science leads us. I will not have predetermined answers to conclusions. I will make sure that the cdc is focused on scientific rigor. At the cdc is focused on radical transparency, as we discussed in your office. The cdc, the most important thing, to regain public trust. That we lead with humility.
▶ 1:03:48Dr. Schwartz: There is an arrogance --
▶ 1:03:49Chair Cassidy: I'm almost out of time. Radical transparency includes if someone puts people beneath you or above you or around you and will not let you remove them, but they are doing wrong things at the cdc, pursuing an agenda harmful to america's public health, and we've seen evidence of that -- it is not a theoretical. How will you handle that situation?
▶ 1:04:12Dr. Schwartz: Chairman, I'm not obviously at the cdc, but you have my assurances that if I'm confirmed as the cdc director I will work with the team, the principal deputy director who is already on the ground, and the deputy director, the chief medical officer, to have those conversations and if there is something that comes up that is concerning you have my assurances that I will answer any questions that this committee has regarding exactly what you just mentioned.
▶ 1:04:39Chair Cassidy: Senator sanders.
▶ 1:04:42Sen. Sanders: Dr. schwartz, thank you for your service over the years. According to the american medical association, which represents over 270,000 doctors "an abundance of evidence from decades of scientific study shows no link between vaccines and autism." in fact, there have been more than 40 scientific studies in seven countries involving over 5 million people finding that there is no link between vaccines and autism.
▶ 1:05:14Sen. Sanders: Yet, today, the cdc has published false information on its website suggesting that childhood vaccines cause autism. Dr. schwartz, do you agree the existing scientific evidence shows vaccines do not cause autism? If confirmed, will you commit to removing information on the cdc website suggesting a link between vaccines and autism?
▶ 1:05:41Dr. Schwartz: Senator, we do not know what causes autism. One in 33 children have a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, and we owe it to the american people to figure out why. The president has asked secretary kennedy to find out why -- what is causing --
▶ 1:06:05Sen. Sanders: I don't have a lot of time, and we all want to find the cause. The evidence is overwhelming that vaccines do not cause autism. Do you accept that evidence?
▶ 1:06:24Dr. Schwartz: I do accept that evidence, senator.
▶ 1:06:25Sen. Sanders: If confirmed, will you commit to removing information on the cdc website suggesting a link between vaccines and autism?
▶ 1:06:28Dr. Schwartz: If confirmed, senator, you have my commitment that I will look at that exact website. I have not seen that. I will speak with the secretary to understand why --
▶ 1:06:39Sen. Sanders: The secretary has put that stuff up there. What I'm asking you is will you remove information that suggests a link between vaccines and autism?
▶ 1:06:50Dr. Schwartz: Senator, I've been in many situations I've had to go to my superiors in the military to have conversations, very difficult conversations, about things that may not have been concerning to the troops or the military personnel. And I will do the same with the secretary. I will go to the secretary --
▶ 1:07:11Sen. Sanders: Just a moment. In august of last year, secretary kennedy's chief of staff sent and emailed to the previous cdc director demanding that, "cdc political leadership all have eyes on the decisions for approval, changes before they go into effect, make america great again." within days, the cdc director was fired. For failing to approve secretary kennedy's anti-vaccine agenda.
▶ 1:07:41Sen. Sanders: Dr. schwartz, if confirmed will you commit, will you commit that you will report to congress if you receive directives from secretary kennedy, or any other individual in the trump administration, to implement policies that are unscientific and can harm the health and well-being of the american people?
▶ 1:07:57Dr. Schwartz: Senator, I do not believe the president or the secretary would ever do what you just mentioned.
▶ 1:08:04Sen. Sanders: Really? You think that is the record? He would not do that? Is that what you are saying?
▶ 1:08:11Dr. Schwartz: Senator, I do not think the secretary or president would ask me to do something like that.
▶ 1:08:17Sen. Sanders: Ok, thank you. Mr. kaufman, in 2022 you said, "you would rather perish" than have any of your three children "receive an injection of the covid vaccine where the risks soundly out weigh the benefits gained." is that a true statement?
▶ 1:08:40Mr. Kaufman: Yes, it is, senator.
▶ 1:08:43Sen. Sanders: In 2021 president trump called the covid vaccine "one of the greatest achievements of mankind." I don't usually agree with president trump. It certainly was a great achievement. Who was right? Were you right or was president trump right?
▶ 1:08:58Mr. Kaufman: I think we were both right. If I may explain that, because I think there have been several things, chairman cassidy alluded to it earlier, that have been mischaracterized. My children, thank god, are young and healthy. Right before that post I had taken them to a kroger, looked at anybody's, and they were all anybody positive for covid-19.
▶ 1:09:22Mr. Kaufman: -- looked at anti-bodies, and they were antibody positive for covid-19. I want to mention trish lawrence , my wife's mom who recently passed away. She had a condition, a very serious condition during covid. I recommended not only for trish lawrence but her husband frank lawrence to get the covid-19 vaccine because it was very appropriate in that circumstance.
▶ 1:09:48Mr. Kaufman: I believe 100% the vaccines are safe, effective, and we should have conversations with our physicians to make a determination on which and what is the best benefit equation for that patient.
▶ 1:09:58Sen. Sanders: Thank you. >> Mr. chairman, thank you. Dr. schwartz, Mr. kaufman, thank you for being here, your willingness to serve. A lot of discussion this morning about vaccines and vaccine policies. Know that I share the concerns that the chairman has outlined.
▶ 1:10:26Sen. Sanders: With what happens to an erosion of public trust when you have decisions that are advanced the don't appear to follow the science. I have mentioned, in this committee, multiple times, the example that alaska set some decades ago. We had, historically, very, very high hepatitis b rates. The highest in the nation.
▶ 1:10:55Sen. Sanders: Particularly in our alaska native communities and with alaska native children. They embarked on a very ambitious, aggressive campaign, but effectively through screening, vaccination, and sustained universal newborn immunization they have virtually eliminated hepatitis b transmission in these communities and preventing new cases of hepatitis b liver-related causes cancer,
▶ 1:11:26Sen. Sanders: Which the chairman has mentioned. I look to that is just one extraordinary example of the value. I know, Mr. kaufman, you have made statements previously as it relates specifically to the hepatitis b vaccine.
▶ 1:11:43Sen. Sanders: My question to you this morning is whether you agree that the hepatitis b birth dose remains an important tool for protecting hybrid and rural states such as alaska?
▶ 1:11:58Mr. Kaufman: Thank you for the question. To give you an answer other than yes, I will tell you all three of my children, who I love more than anything, have received the infant dose of the hepatitis b vaccine.
▶ 1:12:13Sen. Murkowski: I think these are important, because these types of clarifications are important, because you see referenced that unless you are a drug user or concerned about sexually transmitted diseases, but again we are talking about those vaccines that can be given at birth that can prevent these horrible deaths. I think it needs to be made clear.
▶ 1:12:39Sen. Murkowski: We get back to the issue of how do we establish public trust here. I mentioned, I mentioned many of our tribal communities, and we face in the state of alaska challenges when it comes to public health emergencies, natural disasters.
▶ 1:13:02Sen. Murkowski: It requires our tribal communities to rely on" a nation with aspr, with the indian health service, tribal health system, the public health service commissioned corps, which I appreciate your leadership there, Dr. schwartz. It is a lot of challenges. The challenges come with geography, limited health infrastructure, workforce shortages. So, directed to you Mr.
▶ 1:13:25Sen. Murkowski: Kaufman, how could you envision strengthening aspr's partnership with ihs, the tribes, and the public health service commissioned corps to ensure that we are able to respond timely and get effective support, because this is where we see the legs?
▶ 1:13:45Mr. Kaufman: -- the lags.
▶ 1:13:50Mr. Kaufman: Thank you for the question. One my greatest worries is that first responders come in like seagulls, they fly in, they fly out, and they leave the community with all of the issues that they had before and sometimes worse off rather than better off. Hearing Dr. schwartz talk earlier, she has said the public health is always local. I will say emergency response is local as well. When something goes wrong the community knows best.
▶ 1:14:19Mr. Kaufman: It is always a great strategy to let the community lead their emergency situation. My plan would be to come in, strengthen existing partnerships, ensure that individuals are empowered to respond, and that they can Sen. w Sen. a Sen. e on the ground that made the difference.
▶ 1:14:48Mr. Kaufman: Sticking with native communities as we know, you and I have discussed health disparities that we really need to be focusing on. I introduced a bill with the implementation act that directs the cdc to improve quality accuracy, maternal health data for american indian, populations by strengthening partnership for tribes, tribal at the --
▶ 1:15:20Mr. Kaufman: Epidemiology centers. I will ask you if you are confirmed to work with us to address some of these long-standing challenges that we say with misclassification with underreporting and really incomplete data collection.
▶ 1:15:41Mr. Kaufman: We have to do a better job as we are addressing mortality issues and ensuring our native communities are adequately represented in the data.
▶ 1:15:56Dr. Schwartz: You have my commitment to work with the team to make sure we are getting back to your satisfaction.
▶ 1:16:08Sen. Murkowski: Not just in that population but many others I know we have more work to do. Thank you.
▶ 1:16:15Sen. Baldwin: Thank you. I have been seriously concerned by secretary kennedy's repeated actions to limit these vaccines and spread misinformation around the safety and efficacy of vaccines. Investing in innovative vaccine technology is critical. Particularly during an ebola outbreak.
▶ 1:16:46Sen. Baldwin: We need to be prepared for everything from the next pandemic to the next bad flu season. I will start with what I hope will be an easy question for you. Do you believe that mrna vaccines including the covid-19 vaccine are safe and effective?
▶ 1:17:08Mr. Kaufman: Yes I do.
▶ 1:17:14Sen. Baldwin: Thank you. Your statements that were referred to earlier under examination by senator sanders where you indicated you would rather as a father of three you would rather perish than have anyone of his children receive an injection. Because a lot of concern. I think you are going to have to do some strong work to clarify your views on this topic.
▶ 1:17:48Sen. Baldwin: I will ask the same question to you, I want to thank you for your service to this nation. Do you believe mrna vaccines including the covid-19 vaccine are safe and effective?
▶ 1:18:03Dr. Schwartz: Thank you for meeting with me earlier. I will say for the record you have the most beautiful office in the senate. I do believe mrna technology is safe and effective.
▶ 1:18:24Sen. Collins: I appreciate that. It is one example of political interference that you have heard several senators reflect upon in public health decision-making that we have seen during this administration that impacts the safety of americans. This spring, a study about the effectiveness of covid vaccines was suppressed within the department of health and human services.
▶ 1:18:53Sen. Collins: Public health grant awards now undergo a political scrubbing before they are awarded. The administration has now proposed adding a new office to formalize political review of cdc actions.
▶ 1:19:12Sen. Collins: If that isn't bad enough, a recent proposed rule would create a government wide mechanism requiring political review of every discretionary grant. Add restrictions on what funded researchers could publish and expand the government's authority to terminate grants on a whim.
▶ 1:19:40Sen. Collins: We need a cdc director that could demonstrate independence from political decision-making and a willingness to stand up when necessary to secretary kennedy. It is said many times that one of your top goals would be to bring back trust to the cdc.
▶ 1:20:01Sen. Collins: How do you go about accomplishing a goal like that if the views of scientists could be overwritten by political appointees? How would you operate in the environment where I just described it is now going to be political scrubbing of every discretionary grant from the agency?
▶ 1:20:23Dr. Schwartz: Thank you for the question. As you heard in my opening remarks, restoring trust to the cdc is my number one priority. The first thing that we must do is to go where the science leads us, no matter what. Scientific integrity is core. Radical transparency, a lot of people don't understand what that means.
▶ 1:20:50Dr. Schwartz: When I was in with the coast guard, I was a medical unit leader and deepwater horizon. There was a lot of confusion on the ground. A pilot came up to me and was concerned about exposure. He asked me, am I going to get cancer getting exposed to this? The radical transparency I had to utilize was to tell him I did not know.
▶ 1:21:16Dr. Schwartz: I didn't know the mixture of the toxins in the water would cause this individual to have cancer long-term term. What I did tell him was I did not know but he was going to be involved -- it rolled in a long-term surveillance program.
▶ 1:21:37Dr. Schwartz: That assurance even though I didn't know the answer to his question, that assurance was enough for him to complete the mission effectively and successfully. That is the radical transparency of the american people want to know. They want to know what we don't know, and why we know it. I want to be the cdc director for all americans. I don't want to be paternalistic.
▶ 1:22:04Dr. Schwartz: I want to be the director in a very similar matter of a patient centered physician. I want to be a nation centered cdc director.
▶ 1:22:17Sen. Collins: -- Sen. baldwin: I appreciate those sentiments so much. In the context of an agency suppressing studies and having political scrubbing of grant decisions, that will be a real challenge.
▶ 1:22:39Sen. Marshall: I will ask you in a second. We want to talk about solutions. Before we get to that, we want to get through to of the most qualified people we have seen in front of us. We have a two star admiral.
▶ 1:23:07Sen. Marshall: Your culture, your values, all of those things that they look up. The type of position I want to have. Sean kaufman, I think you are the right person right now. It is always good to go back and look at the fundamentals. This is something I didn't know until I got here. It is the administration for strategic preparedness of response. The models move fast.
▶ 1:23:40Sen. Marshall: Your charge is in charge of medical public health preparedness, response, recovery. For such a time as this you have been prepared to do your job. Frontline response experience to anthrax, west nile virus, you understand federal infrastructure, you live private-sector innovation and disaster preparedness.
▶ 1:24:09Sen. Marshall: It combines deep technical knowledge and proven leadership, exactly what we need to keep americans safe. Now, so often this committee seems like all we care about is vaccines. It is 1% of your world, maybe more, maybe less. There is concerns about the technology. It is short-lived. They don't stop the virus.
▶ 1:24:42Sen. Marshall: There are significant risks associated. Especially young males. Like you I gave different advice to my parents than I did my kids. I guess what I'm looking for is let's just say it is the next virus, the next epidemic.
▶ 1:25:04Sen. Marshall: Are you committed to making sure america has access to whatever vaccines you deem safe and worthy to put in the hands of doctors to make that same recommendation?
▶ 1:25:20Mr. Kaufman: Thank you for the recommendation. We have done a lot of great work in your state. I want to acknowledge the staff is phenomenal and excellent as well. I will be committed to lead a phenomenal team. There is a small organization many may not hear of.
▶ 1:25:47Mr. Kaufman: It is responsible not only for looking at new technologies. We face the ability of our adversaries to genetically modify novel threats that actually impose input americans drastically at risk. It is not only interested in creating vaccine countermeasures but also therapeutic so when americans get sick.
▶ 1:26:19Sen. Marshall: Already committed to getting the vaccines in the hands of doctors and nurses and regardless of anything that has ever been said.
▶ 1:26:27Mr. Kaufman: Absolutely. I'm sorry I missed the softball.
▶ 1:26:34Sen. Marshall: You and I know what the huge problem is, what is the solution to bring api back home?
▶ 1:26:43Dr. Schwartz: I actually have to get smarter on that. I have to be brutally honest. I haven't been following that. I would love to work with your team.
▶ 1:27:01Sen. Marshall: The therapeutics you want available.
▶ 1:27:03Mr. Kaufman: There is new technology right now there is a problem. It is a very big problem. It could look at technology that uses different type of ingredients that could underline the adversaries over a biological basis for future measures. There are different strategies they are looking into.
▶ 1:27:34Sen. Marshall: This is the problem the committee needs to be looking at. We are making vaccines, we are making drugs again. We don't have the api to do it. Very few companies are doing it. >> I think it is senator kaine.
▶ 1:27:59Sen. Kaine: Congratulations, I appreciated both. -- of our visits. I cast votes that I sometimes regret. I have cast votes in member -- favor of trump nominees that I have come to regret. I also regret a vote that I cast again stay trump nominee. I thought she was very qualified.
▶ 1:28:27Sen. Kaine: I wonder whether she would have the backbone to stand up to political pressure. Senator sanders asked a question that I think I asked him almost the same verbiage, will you resist political pressure of the secretary or the president and her answer was they would never do such a thing. I voted against her. I apologize to her in the hearing.
▶ 1:28:59Sen. Kaine: Your answer was almost exactly the same as her. That is a hypotheticals question. I like to ask when that is not theoretical or hypothetical. This deals with tobacco and the office of smoking and health. In april, 2020 five, the entire office of smoking and health was eliminated.
▶ 1:29:25Sen. Kaine: This is an office that is in statute and an office that proceeds to congressional appropriations. The trump administration eliminated it. They were fired and the employees who lost their jobs, they were getting paid for not doing their job while the legality of their firing is being contested.
▶ 1:29:49Sen. Kaine: The elimination of the cdc's office of the longest tobacco control infrastructure. They are expanding their influence through the fda authorization process. The fda authorized more flavors of e-cigarettes that attract kids. Mango, blueberry, others, directly appealing.
▶ 1:30:19Sen. Kaine: The enforcement stating that I wouldn't prioritize enforcement products that have not been approved. So long as they have a pending application. There has been a real effort to dispel 40 years of tobacco infrastructure particularly as it goes to this issue. Here's what I want to know. You don't have any role in the fda processing, I get that.
▶ 1:30:46Sen. Kaine: If confirmed will you commit to spending congressionally appropriate dollars for the office of smoking and health on fact-based tobacco control programs and bring back a sufficient staff infrastructure to make sure that you could carry out the mission for which congress appropriates funds to the cdc.
▶ 1:31:11Dr. Schwartz: Thank you for meeting with me earlier and thank you for the question. As a board-certified physician you are speaking about something near and dear to my heart. I ran the clinic when I was at the health clinic in annapolis. The number one thing I focused on was smoking sensation. Smoking has so many significant adverse outcomes.
▶ 1:31:38Dr. Schwartz: Whether it is cardiovascular disease, copd, cancer, I'm very much concerned with what you just mentioned I was not aware of. You have my assurances that if I am confirmed as cdc director I will work with your team and staff to understand if we are appropriate for this particular office why we are not in fact having that office be active.
▶ 1:32:06Sen. Kaine: We have both leaders of the appropriations committee. The ranking member, senator collins is the chairman. When they appropriate money in congress appropriates votes, we get the power in the constitution. It is not a presidential power. My expectation of the cdc director says here is the money for this office at the cdc.
▶ 1:32:34Sen. Kaine: I don't care if it's the secretary, president, some blogger saying we shouldn't spend the money. Once congress votes for it, it is the law. Will you follow the law if we appropriate money for this mission?
▶ 1:32:48Dr. Schwartz: I will always follow the law.
▶ 1:32:54Sen. Kaine: My time is up. You and I had a good visit about the routing of commercial aviation from nations. The need to make sure those dealing with travelers have public health expertise. There's a lot of employees and those at the other airports will have their own questions.
▶ 1:33:22Sen. Kaine: You committed to me that you will make sure that the cdc gets to these locations to try and have forums and provide air traffic controllers, flight attendants, working in retail establishments that we want to be able to answer folks questions. I appreciated that. Simple who s simple who -- Sen.
▶ 1:33:49Sen. Kaine: Hust ed: thank you for joining us today. I have a question for Dr. schwartz about something ohio has a great connection to, that is crystal jacob disease. It belongs to the family of illness and it is right now no treatment for it.
▶ 1:34:20Sen. Kaine: Ohio is playing a leading role trying to change that. We have a research facility, their surveillance center in cleveland. It relies on cdc funding. It helps scientists understand how the brain disease occurs or perhaps how animals. That's what helps get me to the next part of this. Chronic wasting disease.
▶ 1:34:49Sen. Kaine: Another type of this disease, it is a fatal condition that resides mostly in dear, it could also happen with elk, moose, it is detected in 36 other states, why does that matter? We harvest through hunting 200,000 plus dear per year that people eat. It is the way of dealing with this across our country.
▶ 1:35:19Sen. Kaine: Continued research and understanding this is important. The only way to really do that is postmortem human brain tissue analysis. To do this and monitor the way the disease works if and how there is a transfer for animals and humans.
▶ 1:35:45Sen. Kaine: I'm interested in your response, just your reassurance you will support brain analysis capacity, as we have more research that you would support additional research. If there is a backlog on this development of the postmortem analysis.
▶ 1:36:14Sen. Kaine: You will ensure the cdc effectively coordinates itself and state health departments and others who are working on this to identify the laboratories and research that is looking into this to make sure we are controlling this disease and understanding it better. If something like that happens we get this transfer, huge issue.
▶ 1:36:44Dr. Schwartz: Thank you for the question and meeting with me earlier. I would work with your team to understand what are the capacities, I know the resource constraints are something that is a reality.
▶ 1:37:06Dr. Schwartz: I certainly want to make sure that I want to make sure if I am confirmed that I work with your team and career sciences to see what is our capacity, what are we appropriated to do to address these issues.
▶ 1:37:25Sen. Husted: It is spreading in our state and other states as well as a result of the season. We wanted to be coordinated with the wildlife officers and health professionals. It is very much appreciated your coordination and support of that as we -- it is a big issue.
▶ 1:37:59Sen. Husted: It is important. Thank you. I yield back the rest of my time.
▶ 1:38:07Sen. Hassan: Good morning, it is good to see you both. Congratulations on your nominations and congratulations and thanks to your families as well for supporting you in this. You said in response, you will always follow the law, I assume that you would say the same thing. If the president of the united states instruct you to break the law would you follow the law or the president's instruction?
▶ 1:38:38Dr. Schwartz: The president would never asked me to not follow the law but I will always follow the law.
▶ 1:38:44Mr. Kaufman: Follow the law.
▶ 1:38:48Sen. Hassan: There are multiple examples of the president actively instructing people to break the law so I hope you will update yourself on that. It is not a satisfactory response to say he would never do that. The cdc director is responsible for protecting americans and especially children from life-threatening disease outbreaks. If secretary kennedy ordered you to stop the flu vaccine during a deadly flu season would you carry out that order?
▶ 1:39:20Dr. Schwartz: I worked at the office of the surgeon general and one of the things that was very concerning was the surgeon general had a number of campaigns, public health campaigns he wanted to do. We have very limited resources.
▶ 1:39:37Sen. Hassan: I'm asking you a different question and have limited time. If you are instructed to stop promoting the flu vaccine during a deadly flu season would you carry that order?
▶ 1:39:46Dr. Schwartz: We have to prioritize what we could focus on.
▶ 1:39:52Sen. Hassan: This is not a hypothetical question. The flu season last year killed almost 300 children. We have clear data from the cdc that the best way to save lives is by giving them the flu vaccine. In the middle of the deadly flu outbreak last year secretary kennedy personally directed the cdc to immediately stop all promotion of the flu vaccine including promotion campaigns already planned and paid for.
▶ 1:40:20Sen. Hassan: I want to give you a chance to answer again. If the secretary ordered you to stop promoting the flu vaccine during a deadly flu season would you carry out that order?
▶ 1:40:32Dr. Schwartz: I don't speak in hypotheticals.
▶ 1:40:37Sen. Hassan: It is not a hypothetical I have the email and I will be happy to show it to you later. Will you follow an informed order from the secretary?
▶ 1:40:44Dr. Schwartz: I will always protect our children.
▶ 1:40:49Sen. Hassan: You would refuse that order?
▶ 1:40:51Dr. Schwartz: My understanding of what happened back then was the secretary has various priorities and as he's looking at his priorities in terms of what not to fund it.
▶ 1:41:05Sen. Hassan: That is not acceptable you just heard senator kaine talk about the appropriations process, the money was in the budget. It was there and protects and saves lives. Your answer is very disappointing. Federal regulations and decades have make it clear if confirmed you will be at the top of the chain of command for vaccine recommendations to the public in the united states.
▶ 1:41:30Sen. Hassan: Do you agree that you will be at the top of the chain of command with regard to final vaccine recommendations?
▶ 1:41:35Dr. Schwartz: My understanding is when the advisory committee on immunization practices makes a recommendation regarding vaccines, the cdc takes those recommendations. The cdc director will work with the career scientist, chief medical officer of the cdc to analyze those recommendations, look at the evidence used to make those recommendations.
▶ 1:42:01Dr. Schwartz: The cdc director certainly could make that decision regarding should they accept or not accept those recommendations? I also understand and I could be wrong on this that the secretary ultimately has the policy decision.
▶ 1:42:19Sen. Hassan: The recent charter that they will operate under makes clear that the recommendations go to the cdc director. The cdc director after consultation examining the recommendations decide whether to adopt those recommendations or not. The charter says they inform the secretary. The buck stops with the cdc director when it comes to vaccine recommendations.
▶ 1:42:48Sen. Hassan: Do you commit you will consider and make decisions on vaccine recommendations from scientific experts without political interference from outside the chain of command.
▶ 1:43:01Dr. Schwartz: Your premise is interesting I don't think the secretary or president would do what you just said. You have a commitment to follow the science.
▶ 1:43:14Sen. Hassan: He has interfered to the point where he has rewritten the charter in an attempt to it -- to provide particular scientific or vaccine safety, it is outrageous. It is making us unsafe. I hope very much if you are confirmed you will stand up to that kind of difference.
▶ 1:43:37Sen. Tuberville: Thanks for being here today and the willingness to go to the education you have gone through. Thanks for your dedication to our country talking about vaccines, I would hope the federal government would stay out of the vaccine business. I have young grandkids they want them to take 70 vaccines before they are two years old. Let the parents decide that decision.
▶ 1:44:11Sen. Tuberville: Let's get away from this nonsense. I want to get into something that the biden administration got into, monoclonal antibodies. It was saving lives and the biden administration wouldn't let you have it unless you had the vaccine, that is ridiculous. How do you handle that situation if and when we have our next disaster in this country caused by humans?
▶ 1:44:41Sen. Tuberville: How would you handle that?
▶ 1:44:42Mr. Kaufman: In 2014 I had the opportunity to serve at emory university's health care unit where they were treated for ebola. During the 2014 epidemic I witnessed firsthand, I saw a gentleman who was close as we said well we served on the front line, compassion and cares about what we will do at this point.
▶ 1:45:11Mr. Kaufman: A gentleman within hours come alive. So much so that we ordered chick-fil-a for him, it is in his book. I have a brother who got covid really bad. He went in florida. He got therapeutic solutions and recovered very well.
▶ 1:45:32Mr. Kaufman: I believe with the threats we face today, with the ability to identify through genome sequencing that we must be absolutely prepared with this technology and it must be ready to roll to be more prepared today that we have been before.
▶ 1:45:53Sen. Tuberville: Unless you take the vaccine you can have this, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. We killed millions of people who should not have been killed because of that decision and we are worried about vaccines. We have great vaccines, let's give them if they want to. That is our right, this is a free country. How are you going to get trust back into our country through your position?
▶ 1:46:21Sen. Tuberville: My state of alabama they don't trust health, federal government. They surely don't trust the health and our country.
▶ 1:46:29Mr. Kaufman: One thing I would always do to evaluate whether we did a great job or not is we would ask our clients upon finishing the work we trusted more than we were before? I think the indicators today are maybe doing covid we didn't have necessarily the best showing in public health. I appreciate the question because it gives me a chance to address something as well. I was asked by a senator are the mrna vaccines safe?
▶ 1:47:01Mr. Kaufman: Absolutely. This is important. Many millions of people around the world do not suffer. I cannot forget the ones that did. With any medical intervention, it's insensitive and it basically erodes trust when we choose to write them off. When we fail to acknowledge that they have legitimate issues.
▶ 1:47:33Mr. Kaufman: Though I believe vaccines are safe and effective if I will serve the american population and all of those individuals are recognized, treated with compassion, and acknowledged.
▶ 1:47:47Sen. Tuberville: I would love to hear this, senator kennedy and I shared the same desire. It is more and more important every day. It is killing us. Absolutely killing us. What role will you be playing in the cdc helping us have good food that is safe for our kids, what is your role going to be?
▶ 1:48:13Dr. Schwartz: Thank you for meeting with me earlier. I am all in on make america healthy again. The president has already done, they have introduced nutrition in medical school. We did not have nutrition in medical schools. The secretary is introducing physical fitness testing.
▶ 1:48:42Dr. Schwartz: We did physical fitness testing and this generation did not. He is removing the petroleum-based food dyes and food products. I am fully committed to continue focusing on this make america healthy again. We are looking at these things happening to prevent diseases. That is exactly what I have done my entire life as an occupational medical physician. Looking at those things we could prevent diseases and continue to make america healthy.
▶ 1:49:13Sen. Tuberville: Work on nutrition, work on physical fitness, exercise, this thing right here is killing our kids and everybody in this country because we sit around looking at it all day long. If we don't do something about it it will be our fault, not our kids fall.
▶ 1:49:30Sen. Kim: Dr. schwartz, I want to start with you. I was proud to be a career nonpartisan federal worker before civil service. I am hearing from many across our government and a lot of the cdc about low morale especially after the big cuts last year. How are you going to try to address it and try to rebuild and give a sense of trajectory of the cdc going forward?
▶ 1:49:56Dr. Schwartz: Thank you for the question in a meeting with me earlier. What I think about trust I always think about particular instance in my career. I was the program manager in the coast guard and I had to --
▶ 1:50:12Sen. Kim: I'm asking specific to the cdc, what will you do in your first 10 or 20 days?
▶ 1:50:16Dr. Schwartz: The reason I was explaining the story is the coast guard member needed to trust me, he needed to trust what I was telling him about his hiv diagnoses. The one thing he had to understand is that I truly cared about him. Once he understood that, he was able to ask questions, he knew he could have a full life. I take that experience to heart.
▶ 1:50:44Dr. Schwartz: That is what I will bring if I am confirmed as cdc director. These scientists have dedicated their lives to taking care of the american people. They dedicated their lives working behind-the-scenes where they get no credit whatsoever to make sure they are protecting americans from health, safety, security.
▶ 1:51:02Sen. Kim: Will you oppose future large-scale cuts?
▶ 1:51:04Dr. Schwartz: What I heard is the cdc is actually hiring more people.
▶ 1:51:11Sen. Kim: I hope that continues on. Would you oppose large-scale cuts?
▶ 1:51:14Dr. Schwartz: If I'm confirmed you have my commitment that I will work with the team at the cdc to understand what are those gaps, what are the things that are redundant, where are we having those efficiencies to make sure the cdc americans.
▶ 1:51:30Sen. Kim: I wanted to switch to you and ask questions about the medical reserve corps.
▶ 1:51:38Mr. Kaufman: I think they are absolutely essential.
▶ 1:51:44Sen. Kim: The thousands of volunteers across the country, you think it's absolutely essential?
▶ 1:51:49Mr. Kaufman: Should the iceberg tip into this country if we experience a biological attack or natural disaster.
▶ 1:52:00Sen. Kim: I'm glad to hear you say that. What I was reading, what are you going to do about that?
▶ 1:52:13Mr. Kaufman: I'm hoping, I note the president establishes the policy but I believe the person resides in congress. If you see the importance in this I'm hoping you will make sure those individuals are well-funded.
▶ 1:52:31Sen. Kim: Will you commit if you are confirmed to fight from the inside and work with us to see if we could continue on with this program?
▶ 1:52:37Mr. Kaufman: Even with no budget I will make sure those individuals get the best that we could give them.
▶ 1:52:44Sen. Kim: I would prefer it is with no budget -- it is not with no budget. I just want to go back to you, a huge part of the cdc is about protecting america when it comes to global health. I just want to ask you your thoughts whether or not the withdrawal the trump administration set forward from the world health organization makes the american people more or less safe quickly.
▶ 1:53:13Dr. Schwartz: I think the world health organization does amazing things. I also agree with president trump that it was incredibly bureaucratic. The centers for disease control was doing the heavy lifting throughout the time.
▶ 1:53:29Sen. Kim: Do you think it's making us more safe to no longer being the world health organization?
▶ 1:53:34Dr. Schwartz: The president and secretary rubio have the american global health strategy.
▶ 1:53:40Sen. Kim: It's better than being a part of the world health organization? It's not something we could do an additive to membership there?
▶ 1:53:46Dr. Schwartz: It's purpose is to prevent diseases from coming to the homeland. Centers for disease control is working with that america first global health strategy.
▶ 1:53:57Sen. Kim: Do you think we are better off now than we were a year and a half ago?
▶ 1:54:01Dr. Schwartz: We are protecting the taxpayer.
▶ 1:54:06Sen. Kim: I wanted to ask you what is your thought here, are we more or less safe?
▶ 1:54:10Mr. Kaufman: I think we are in the process of evaluating. Sometimes a big it's important to remember.
▶ 1:54:19Sen. Kim: I thought you try to evaluate before you make cuts.
▶ 1:54:21Mr. Kaufman: We are $40 trillion in debt and the president has asked us to scale back. Sometimes they don't necessarily mean poor outcomes.
▶ 1:54:32Sen. Kim: I don't discount the bureaucracy, shooting from the hip in that way, turning our global reputation in incredibly important times. With that I yield back. >> social distancing and quarantine over and over again, it was confusing and frustrating for all americans.
▶ 1:55:02Sen. Kim: It was revealed the science never supported the cdc statements. What internal safeguards exist to prevent misleading the public and ensuring transparency?
▶ 1:55:18Dr. Schwartz: I will bring that member, it is very lovely. If I'm confirmed as the cdc director, we are being radically transparent with the american people. The first order of business for me is to really do a listening session. I want to make sure I understand what are the pain points, what are we doing to help restore trust with the american public.
▶ 1:55:47Dr. Schwartz: The one thing I think is very concerning to me is it internally to the cdc, there is a breakdown in trust between the career scientist and the politicals. I want to do everything I can to make sure that the team is already on the ground could help build morale within the cdc.
▶ 1:56:09Dr. Schwartz: If we have the same northstar protecting americans domestically and internationally the american public feels safe and secure that we are going to be protecting them while they are sleeping. Internally within the cdc we are one team, one fight. >> it is important that the american people deserve better.
▶ 1:56:38Dr. Schwartz: What happened was a total disaster. What could the cdc do to better support and work directly with the states rather than over centralizing the decisions.
▶ 1:56:58Dr. Schwartz: One of my priorities is to strengthen the priorities, I don't want to have a cdc, I want to work with the partners to understand what are the things that we could do better, what are the things they don't need their health.
▶ 1:57:27Dr. Schwartz: One of the things I recognized is that there are three types of states. They needed the idea and they figured it out and said thank you very much. There's another group of states that we need a of resources personnel. There a third group that says we need everything, don't ever go away.
▶ 1:57:48Dr. Schwartz: I would like for states to be more of that second and first category where they are learning how to take care of their citizens and they are using the cdc only when they need to use the cdc. You have my assurances that if I'm confirmed I will continue working on that partnership. >> does the cdc have any missions you think are inappropriate or should be performed by another agency?
▶ 1:58:16Dr. Schwartz: I am excited to understand, I think I know the core capabilities. The original missions of the cdc focusing on protecting americans from malaria. I do think the cdc should have an infectious disease prevention . I think over time the cdc has some issues trying to be all things with all people. $40 trillion in debt.
▶ 1:58:48Dr. Schwartz: We need to refocus and figure out what should the cdc be? We want to truly understand is the core mission protecting americans from infectious diseases or should we continue to try to always help people? >> indiana is frequently hit by tornadoes and floods, especially in the summer.
▶ 1:59:14Dr. Schwartz: Many of our emergency management officials are really frustrated with fema. The cdc has similar emergency preparedness and response mission to fema, what is the role with assisting states with natural disasters?
▶ 1:59:34Dr. Schwartz: The cdc should be taking a supporting role. The cdc should not be coming in telling the states what to do. They should be focusing on what do they need us to do? That's what we need to focus on if I'm confirmed. >> you have our full support. I yield back.
▶ 2:00:02Sen. Alsobrooks: Thank you, good to see you again. Thank you for your willingness to serve. In april of this year secretary hegseth posted this video where he said the notion of the flu vaccine must be mandatory for every service member at all times, it is just overly broad and not rational.
▶ 2:00:30Sen. Alsobrooks: I want to ask you whether you agree with secretary hegseth as a flu vaccine mandate.
▶ 2:00:38Dr. Schwartz: Thank you for meeting with me. I have had my share of making the mandates of influenza and other vaccines that are at least following. As they made the mandate for those vaccines. I understand why. When you are in submarines, hardships, close quarters.
▶ 2:01:05Dr. Schwartz: It is really important to make sure we have what we call self protection. I am supportive of mandating vaccines. I believe if there is a newer vaccine, there should be some look as to whether that new vaccine should be mandatory.
▶ 2:01:27Sen. Alsobrooks: You don't believe it is irrational and absurd to have a mandatory vaccine mandate in the military?
▶ 2:01:33Dr. Schwartz: There are a lot of double negatives there but I believe what you are asking me is do I believe in vaccine mandates for military members? I do believe in certain circumstances yes, it should be a requirement to have mandates in the military.
▶ 2:01:52Sen. Alsobrooks: They said you are forced to choose between your conscience and country even when they pose no threat to our military readiness. I know you spent years overseeing health care delivery for coast guard personnel. You have spoken about vaccines and how they are critical responding to an outbreak.
▶ 2:02:15Sen. Alsobrooks: You spoke about cape may, the coast guard training center and whether you believe an outbreak in our armed services posed a threat.
▶ 2:02:27Dr. Schwartz: The example you gave is when I was with the coast -- coast guard. We are seeing increases in illnesses. We were trying our best to have nonmedical countermeasures. We have congregate living situations. They want to maintain this for their inspections.
▶ 2:02:56Dr. Schwartz: In 2011 when the vaccine became available, we made it mandatory so they could prevent these outbreaks and improve readiness and training. Within a couple of weeks of us instituting that mandatory vaccine we did not see any such cases of outbreaks.
▶ 2:03:20Sen. Alsobrooks: They could be effective. After your nominations, the anti-vaccine ally called you the queen of mandating vaccines during your time at the coast guard. What is your time with other anti-vaccine advocates for supporting vaccine mandates?
▶ 2:03:42Dr. Schwartz: I want to be the cdc director for all americans. I don't want to be the cdc director for americans -- I want to be those -- for those who have concerns. I want to be a nation centered cdc director. I want to make sure I understand why parents have vaccine hesitancy. I don't want to ignore them.
▶ 2:04:12Dr. Schwartz: I want to have an open conversation. I would love to have a conversation with erin siri. I would love to understand his concerns. I would love to have an open and transparent debate.
▶ 2:04:26Sen. Alsobrooks: It sounds like you are more polite and reasonable. One more question about vitamin k, it is an essential nutrient that helps blood clot. The vitamin k shot is intervention to prevent dangerous bleeding in newborns. The confusion of the secretaries champion for years has created a spillover effect that is increasingly caused parents to reduce the vitamin k shot and other routine care.
▶ 2:04:58Sen. Alsobrooks: The congresswoman asked the secretary to directly confirm for worried parents that the vitamin k shot was safe. Could you confirm for us today that the vitamin k shot is safe and would you recommend parents get the shot for their babies?
▶ 2:05:12Dr. Schwartz: I can confirm the vitamin k shot is safe. I worry about conflation of vitamin k with other vaccines that parents might be concerned about. It could absolutely reduce the hemorrhaging in children. I absolutely believe it is safe and effective and I encourage all of them to get the vitamin k shot.
▶ 2:05:37Sen. Hawley: X for the nominees for being here. If I could start with you, I am getting this question a lot at home in the state of missouri. I am not a doctor or scientist. We have a lot of data centers in the state of missouri. 60 in my state. Many more coming online. There's something on the order of 4000 with another 3000 planned.
▶ 2:06:06Sen. Hawley: Maybe by the end of the calendar year. I get asked pretty regularly, I would say constantly about the health effects of living near a data center. Things like the effects of electromagnetic fields. The neurological issues associated with the industrial drones. Secretary kennedy and I were discussing it just a month or two ago.
▶ 2:06:35Sen. Hawley: His comment to me, he said to me this is his quote, the risks to me are horrendous. The risks to me are horrendous. He said that hhs would study the issue. Do you know is the cdc currently doing any kind of study on the health effects of living near one of these data centers? Do you know?
▶ 2:06:59Dr. Schwartz: I don't know the answer to that question. I do know that 9 I do know that -- they have these health center valuations. The answer would be directed to them under the cdc. I would love to work with your staff to understand have they done this regarding data centers?
▶ 2:07:25Sen. Hawley: You anticipate my next question, if you are confirmed, will you ensure the cdc and whatever subcomponent is appropriate does a full-scale study so we could figure out what the answers are? I just don't know, I say that to some people. There is proliferating studies that say there are health concerns. I don't know.
▶ 2:07:50Sen. Hawley: I think we should get the answers particularly as more and more americans live near one of these data centers. Will the cdc and its appropriate subcomponents look into this and get the data as it relates to these health effects?
▶ 2:08:08Dr. Schwartz: You have my commitment to work with your staff to find out if they have been done. It could have already been done. It -- if it hasn't been done you have my commitment to work with your staff to find out if it could be done.
▶ 2:08:24Sen. Hawley: I will take that as a yes. I think that was a yes. Let me ask you about another piece of reporting. The cdc collects data on portions in the united states of america through the reporting system. This system is voluntary.
▶ 2:08:45Sen. Hawley: A number of states not coincidentally large blue states do not turn over any data so it is difficult to get a picture of how many abortions and under what circumstances are committed in this country. Since the dobbs decision just a few years ago, they have gone way out. Well over one million abortions last year. All of that is based on what we could cobble together.
▶ 2:09:12Sen. Hawley: I realize that has been some talk of a different component in hhs and historically it has been what is in your agency. Would you commit to get as much information to collect the data on the number of circumstances as it is provided for in the system. Collect the data from the states and work with those states currently holding on and not giving it.
▶ 2:09:40Sen. Hawley: So we could know, would you do that?
▶ 2:09:44Dr. Schwartz: Abortion surveillance is absolutely critical component of what the cdc is currently doing. They may move to another agency with hhs. I will look into that. I also want to make sure that certain states are not conflating emergency services and hiding abortions in emergency services case documentation.
▶ 2:10:12Dr. Schwartz: We need to make sure we are pulling out true abortions and we have the clear states regarding the data so it is actually accurate.
▶ 2:10:22Sen. Hawley: Fantastic. My time is almost expired. I want to give you a question for the record. The agency for toxic substances which is underneath your purview. Some years ago this agency issued a report about the toxic landfill in my state and said there were no health effects. Subsequent data shows that was totally wrong.
▶ 2:10:44Sen. Hawley: We had some of the highest cancer rates in the nation around this landfill and whether there was nuclear radiation and its components. I want to make sure we got that science corrected and getting the relief the people of missouri need. Thank you. >> senator hickenlooper who snuck in just before senator blunt rochester would have started. Senator blunt rochester then.
▶ 2:11:16Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Thank you to Dr. schwartz and Mr. kaufman. Thank you for being here. In the last 18 months. The cdc has only had an acting director for 29 days, you have -- you are well-qualified.
▶ 2:11:50Sen. Blunt-Rochester: I'd like to understand your thinking on several cdc administration actions to help the committee gauge your judgment and independence. We have a very good meeting in my office. It is really important as well. It is by understanding while the administration put your name forward, this was not secretary kennedy's choice. You will have to work with him in these efforts.
▶ 2:12:22Sen. Blunt-Rochester: I want to follow-up up on senator alsobrooks question about when you were chief medical officer for the coast guard. We had a really good conversation about that as well. Just your success and how you did mandate the new military recruits received the virus vaccine in cape may.
▶ 2:12:45Sen. Blunt-Rochester: This actually brought down the number of cases 20 I was really impressed by that. In april, our defense secretary rode back to flu vaccine mandate that had been in place in the united states since world war ii.
▶ 2:13:11Sen. Blunt-Rochester: My first question is it was widely reported that unsurprisingly a major food outbreak in the air force base in texas. It prompted the pentagon to restore the food and vaccine requirements for military recruits.
▶ 2:13:32Sen. Blunt-Rochester: My question is would you have advised secretary hegseth against the decision to roll back the flu vaccine for american troops particularly as we talk about readiness for our american troops?
▶ 2:13:47Dr. Schwartz: I don't like speaking in hypotheticals. Let's not speak as a hypothetical let's say you are actually in line to be the next cdc director and you will be thought of as a medical expert for this country. Would you advise that?
▶ 2:14:11Dr. Schwartz: I believe vaccines are safe and effective. I do understand there are some concerns specifically about influenza because it has the effectiveness season to season. I understand why certain individuals may have some concerns. I believe personally that influenza saves lives.
▶ 2:14:44Dr. Schwartz: I understand why there are some concerns about mandating vaccines that has 35%-50% effectiveness season over season.
▶ 2:14:55Sen. Blunt-Rochester: I want to shift to the measles outbreak. They didn't put out a single message in 2025. The cdc also halted the wild to mild flu vaccine campaign and dramatically scaled back its back to school. Will you publicly urged americans to not get vaccinated?
▶ 2:15:29Dr. Schwartz: Absolutely. I have been vaccinating people for my entire 25 plus year career. There is a large swath of americans who have vaccine hesitancy concerns.
▶ 2:15:46Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Would you reinstate the back-to-school campaign?
▶ 2:15:52Sen. Blunt-Rochester: It is just yes or no if you think you know the answer.
▶ 2:15:57Dr. Schwartz: I would like to talk to the cdc career scientist and understand what the current resources are.
▶ 2:16:05Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Can I jump to my last question, in january, Dr. oz, two other doctors the doctors recommended a vaccine schedule based on a comparison with denmark. Do you agree with the recommendation to no longer recommend all 17 vaccines?
▶ 2:16:37Sen. Blunt-Rochester: >> I agree with the president who asked hhs to look at the said memo and find out if those recommendations were sound and they were not. You have my commitment to take a look at that memo to understand whether it makes sense or doesn't or if the evidence suggests the six vaccines, for covid, hepatitis a and b -- >> my time has expired and I
▶ 2:17:07Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Want to respect the committee and I know senatorhave talked at and I know senatorhave talked ag ourselves to denmark which is and I will share with you, I think you are immensely qualified, I'm very, very concerned that even qualified people have either had to change their positions or quit so again I wish us all luck at this
▶ 2:17:38Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Moment. >> senator moody?
▶ 2:17:44Sen. Moody: Think you, Mr. chairman. I appreciate you being here today, stepping up for important jobs and putting yourselves through this process is no easy task. I'm sure the job is very hard, maybe this is a good try out for that but we appreciate you being here, it is important to have great people in these roles and important we have public health authorities that not only are prepared for disasters and
▶ 2:18:15Sen. Moody: Pandemics but can execute on their responsibilities in accordance with the constitution , first principle of government, to protect people's rights. And boy, did most every government official forget that when covid hit and especially under the last administration although in florida we tried to make every decision to promote the health, safety and welfare of people through the lens of how do we also protect people's
▶ 2:18:47Sen. Moody: Rights? I'm listening to questioning today and it is important we talk about this because if you remember there was a time when folks wanted to shut people up in their homes, shut down churches, schools, businesses, they shut down the cruise industry for a year and a half and we litigated and pushed back legally but they used the cdc, I think an old quarantine law from forever ago.
▶ 2:19:16Sen. Moody: That is a big deal for florida, affects a lot of jobs. I think is -- there is this new political insanity especially in this party that seems to be taking over the democratic party . At one of the democratic socialist they call themselves though they are an extreme authoritarian group, they want to control lives, they required masks and this wasn't during covid, this was recently.
▶ 2:19:50Sen. Moody: Masks, social distancing which, when I was attorney general, I let a grand jury investigation that said that was created out of thin air with no basis in science. You had to have your covid shot in your booster shot within the last 12 months just to attend the convention, this is a party that says may promote their policies and their mandates and extreme central government control over every facet of your lives, over individual its on
▶ 2:20:23Sen. Moody: Ami. That should scare every american, I don't care where you are on vaccines. That is a symbolic argument and an important argument of in the narrowest of circumstances where you should force someone or have a mandate on someone. Florida led the litigation charges against mandatory vaccines.
▶ 2:20:44Sen. Moody: They wanted to tell you what you put in your body and yes I think making someone choose service of country over autonomy and individual liberty is a discussion we need to have and I hope you have good answers for that. But I ask you, do believe it is the first principle of government, government should effectuate protection of individual liberties, first and foremost, yes or no?
▶ 2:21:14Sen. Moody: Is that why our country was established, Dr. schwartz?
▶ 2:21:16Dr. Schwartz: Thank you, senator moody and thank you for meeting with me in representing the great state of florida. I agree with that contention.
▶ 2:21:26Sen. Moody: Do believe in your service as cdc director you will have to make important decisions regarding health? But it all times you will have to be mindful of individual liberty?
▶ 2:21:40Dr. Schwartz: I absolutely agree with that contention.
▶ 2:21:47Sen. Moody: I think what we are seeing now in terms of the insanity on the others of the aisle, the things they want to mandate and cram down the throats of americans and how much control of america they want, we have to be asking every nominee what they believe the purpose of government is because we are confronting now people that believe america should be something it was not meant to be
▶ 2:22:18Sen. Moody: And we have to have courageous leaders taking on these jobs that understand the evolution of this country, the success of the country, what it was built on, why we have been so successful so thank you for taking on these roles. Florida is home to more than 10,000 world trade center program members, it is the largest population outside the new york metropolitan area. There has been no clinical center of excellence that exists in our state.
▶ 2:22:42Sen. Moody: As you know, your agency will oversee and administer the world health center which provides health care for 9/11 related conditions. Congress encouraged the cdc to look at creating a center outside new york. They have not done so. I think this needs attention. We have such a large population in florida, thousands. A lot of people have moved to florida from new york, thousands.
▶ 2:23:12Sen. Moody: I would ask you to commit to examining that.
▶ 2:23:13Dr. Schwartz: Yes, senator you have my commitment to looking into that.
▶ 2:23:17Sen. Moody: Thank you.
▶ 2:23:19Chair Cassidy: This will be senator hickenlooper.
▶ 2:23:24Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you, Mr. chair. Mr. kaufman, as you know last year the administration abruptly canceled 22 projects, $500 million in research on the mrna platform to address disease. I have been led to leave you supportive cancellation of the research funding?
▶ 2:23:47Mr. Kaufman: That is correct, senator.
▶ 2:23:49Sen. Hickenlooper: A few months ago there was major news showing mrna, the platform of mrna, could be a promising, perhaps transformational treatment pathway for patients with pancreatic cancer which as I'm sure you know, it is one of the most deadly forms of cancer. Less than 13% of people that get it survive five years.
▶ 2:24:15Sen. Hickenlooper: If mrna research like this is being canceled how can we begin to make sure such a promising pathway is being adequately investigated?
▶ 2:24:24Mr. Kaufman: Senator thank you so much for the question. Mrna platforms are extremely promising. In fact, we will need them. We will need them to deal with the threats coming tomorrow. Nih is doing hundreds of millions of dollars of research in mrna platforms for cancer as you discussed. The mrna cancellations that occurred were for the development of new mrna vaccines.
▶ 2:24:51Mr. Kaufman: This is the issue, the reason why I supported the cancellation. I believe we have hundreds of millions of people that were vaccinated with the first ever mrna platform, the covid-19 vaccine, first ever. We have so much we can learn, how to improve it. Why did most people not have a problem, why did some people have a problem?
▶ 2:25:13Sen. Hickenlooper: Is that why we stopped at the research, we had so much to learn?
▶ 2:25:17Mr. Kaufman: The research in my opinion should be redirected to learn what worked well with the mrna platform and what didn't because it was the first interaction with humans.
▶ 2:25:28Sen. Hickenlooper: So that implies we can do two things at once?
▶ 2:25:32Mr. Kaufman: I think it is being efficient and fiscally responsible meaning, why would we invest in new vaccines make y asking questions of the population today, what worked well, what didn't.
▶ 2:25:47Sen. Hickenlooper: Stories and s in the process of doing possibly life-saving research into things that could solve and credit cancer, -- pancreatic cancer, all of a sudden that is stopped because that is something looking forward to a future use because we haven't sufficiently studied the past. I'm incredulous.
▶ 2:26:12Mr. Kaufman: The studies you are referring to have not been canceled, those continue at nih.
▶ 2:26:17Sen. Hickenlooper: How do you decide which ones to cancel?
▶ 2:26:20Mr. Kaufman: You canceled 22 projects, the vast majority, almost everyone at that time going on. What is the determination of which one turns out to be most life-threatening, most transformational?
▶ 2:26:33Mr. Kaufman: To use the mrna platform and the way it is designed, which gives us unbelievable flexibility if we ever face a threat like covid, we are able to sequence it, plug it into an mrna platform and deliver it.
▶ 2:26:51Mr. Kaufman: Meaning even though we may have slowed research down in that arena now we still have the capability today if we are hit with a novel threat the plug-and-play like we did in an operation which was a phenomenal accomplishment of trump.
▶ 2:27:07Sen. Hickenlooper: My argument would be it took us 300 days to get needles in the arm. If we want to avoid shutting down global economies we have to get that down to 100 days. That research was to begin looking at, how do we have an array ready to go so if we do get one of these as everyone predicts, we will have another pandemic-related infection, I feel we should be ready to go.
▶ 2:27:36Sen. Hickenlooper: Our goal should be 100 days, not 300. Dr. schwartz, in april 2025, nearly 90 percent of the staff at the institute for occupational safety and health, iosh, 90% of the staff jobs were terminated by the doge event I guess you call it, like an earthquake.
▶ 2:28:06Sen. Hickenlooper: This resulted in the iosh office endeavor completely shut down for a period of time. These positions have been reinstated, but not every staff member. They have gotten other jobs, gone different places. You have spoken about your background in operational safety, occupational help. I trust you do understand the importance there.
▶ 2:28:33Sen. Hickenlooper: In colorado a lot of people are battling wildfires. Not just colorado, arizona, new mexico, utah, many western states. Our firefighters are on the front lines. They require protective equipment to do their jobs. I -- denver, I believe the headquarters of the national firefighting program, doing everything to protect those firefighters.
▶ 2:29:04Sen. Hickenlooper: When we need firefighters more than ever, why was the target this office, that part of the program? It seems like that should be a priority.
▶ 2:29:14Dr. Schwartz: Senator, it was great to meet you and I want to say for the record I did listen to wgaon wheel. Great banjo playing, thank you for the recommendation. [laughter] I did not know about what you described happening in denver. You have my commitment if I'm confirmed as cdc director to look into that with your staff and the folks of the cdc.
▶ 2:29:35Sen. Hickenlooper: Appreciate that. I will stick with you. And talk a little aboutasip. [gavel] am I out of time already+ I thought you reset the zero. Thank you both, appreciate you being here. [indiscernible] >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman and thank you both for being here today and your patience.
▶ 2:30:07Sen. Hickenlooper: Dr. schwartz, do you think it is the role of the federal government to be tracking outbreaks?
▶ 2:30:15Dr. Schwartz: Senator, thank you for scheduling and meeting with me and I hope to have a very productive conversation with you next week. I absolutely believe one of the core missions of the cdc is tracking outbreaks domestically and internationally.
▶ 2:30:33Sen. Murray: I absolutely do think it is part of the critical role of it and for everybody back home and everyone is starting to realize there is a parasite spreading today likely through fresh produce and it is sending people to the hospital with which doctors are calling explosive diarrhea.
▶ 2:30:57Sen. Murray: The cdc used to conduct surveillance on this very issue but in july 2025, thanks to trump's cdc made that reporting optional. Now we are here I year later and sing over 7000 confirmed or under investigated cases and over 100 hospitalizations with no cause yet identified and those numbers are growing every day so Dr.
▶ 2:31:21Sen. Murray: Schwartz, you're a physician, public health expert, is there any scientific or medical justification for cdc having eliminated mandatory reporting of that parasite?
▶ 2:31:35Dr. Schwartz: Senator, this is the first I have heard that. Cyclosporiasis is a terrible disease. Watery, explosive diarrhea. Something you would not want anyone to experience.
▶ 2:31:49Sen. Murray: So you are not aware this was canceled a year ago?
▶ 2:31:53Dr. Schwartz: I was not.
▶ 2:31:54Sen. Murray: If you are confirmed or you commit to reinstating the reporting for cyclosporiasis?
▶ 2:32:01Dr. Schwartz: You have my commitment to work with the cdc and scientists about what can be done, why did it stop and what we can do moving forward.
▶ 2:32:10Sen. Murray: It is the job of our public health agencies to catch outbreaks like this and take action and it is hard to do when you have removed the reporting requirement or fired expert staff were undermined trust and public health so for the record, to me rfk jr. And trump's war on the cdc is landing people in the hospital.
▶ 2:32:31Sen. Murray: Outbreaks happen but we should not need thousands of people to get severely ill before we reinstate programs and systems that were haphazardly canceled so I want you to follow up if and when you are confirmed. I'm a huge proponent for vaccine research which is why I too as senator hickenlooper just asked you about, on canceling the $500 million in mrna research through barta, they prepare our country
▶ 2:33:02Sen. Murray: For any kind of future issues like we all know we have had now, and last august they canceled that and we know the mrna technology has grown tremendously and provides new opportunities for biomedical research. You said you agreed with the secretary's decision to eliminate that. I don't understand how you want more research, but canceling is ok. I wanted to be on the record, you're fine with that being canceled?
▶ 2:33:32Sen. Murray: >> senator murphy, it is the type of research. -- senator murray, apologies. I believe learning what we can improve and why things work well and why things didn't is absolutely critical research but the research that was canceled was investing in new --
▶ 2:33:56Sen. Murray: So we would be able to be ready for the next covid. For all americans, we don't want to live through that again. We really need that kind of research. Dr. schwartz, same question. You agree with the secretary's decision to cancel mrna research funding?
▶ 2:34:15Dr. Schwartz: Senator, this is the first I'm hearing about their spirit as a private citizen I was not following that. As we discussed before, mrna technology is safe and effective and I would like to know more about this topic.
▶ 2:34:28Sen. Murray: I would like to ask you about that again. Mr. kaufman, you said we need more research on people who received the covid-19 vaccine. Good news is, cdc was doing that , but in april the cdc delayed and ultimately blocked the release of a report that demonstrated the covid-19 vaccine was highly effective.
▶ 2:34:52Sen. Murray: That study which was eventually independently published in jama, showed a 50% decrease in hospitalization from that vaccine and for the record, this is important to me, this type of political interference is deeply disturbing. It doesn't do anything to instill the trust you talked about, Dr. schwartz, in our public health agencies. I know I'm out of time. I see my chairman has been very patient with everybody. I just want to ask you Dr.
▶ 2:35:24Sen. Murray: Schwartz, this is critical and I know some of my colleagues have asked you this. If you are confirmed as cdc director and secretary kennedy asked you to commit in advance to approving every recommendation asip makes in the future regardless of scientific evidence, will you do that?
▶ 2:35:40Dr. Schwartz: Senator, the secretary would never ask me to do that it--
▶ 2:35:44Sen. Murray: This is not hypothetical. This happened with previous -- with susan who was in and fired and came back here and told us she was outed because of her scientific integrity so this is not hypothetical, it is critical.
▶ 2:36:05Sen. Murray: I would like to know, if you are confirmed, commit in advance to approving every recommendation asip makes in the future, regardless of scientific evidence?
▶ 2:36:19Dr. Schwartz: You have my commitment senator.
▶ 2:36:22Sen. Murray: The secretary of health ask you not to, will you defy him asip and follow the advice of asip?
▶ 2:36:32Dr. Schwartz: I will follow the science wherever it leads, you have my commitment.
▶ 2:36:38Chair Cassidy: I will ask a few follow-ups. Mr. kaufman, we have to restore trust. You are running for office for school board and say you hated the cdc. Boy, that is a good way to undermine trust. I mean that tongue-in-cheek, but really, that undermines trust in cdc, if you are running for office and telling people you hate the cdc. Comment on that.
▶ 2:37:05Mr. Kaufman: Thank you so much for the opportunity to address it. There have been many statements post and pre-where I said the cdc is america's treasure and it is and remains that way. I have been working there since november and believe the staff of the cdc are exceptional. When I was running for school board, I believed in three fundamentals. I believe they provide the best information, all of it.
▶ 2:37:34Mr. Kaufman: Not incomplete, not just the good news, but the bad news, everything. I believe we empower people to make decisions, we don't make it for them. We empower people with the information to make decisions that are right for themselves and their families and we serve no matter what decision is made, whether people chose to get vaccinated or not, we serve them equally come away don't deprive them, we don't hurt them, we don't demonstrate a lack of compassion toward people's decisions around medical health interventions.
▶ 2:38:03Mr. Kaufman: At the time that decision was made it was during the greatest sensitivity during covid-19. I have since made numerous statements about cdc where they remain the national treasure and at that time heightened sensitivity I did not agree with what cdc leadership was doing. The cdc workforce has always been the most dedicated workforce I've ever seen.
▶ 2:38:22Chair Cassidy: Thank you for the explanation. I'm almost flummoxed that you would support more research on the development of mrna type vaccines. You speak of the need to do research on the side effects, but that would mean either cdc or nih doing that research.
▶ 2:38:50Chair Cassidy: At aspr, it is supposed to be supporting advanced research and development of pandemic vaccines and the mrna vaccine is Dr. schwartz pointed out is safe, effective, rapidly able to be adopted for a new bio security threats.
▶ 2:39:09Chair Cassidy: If the chinese design a vaccine and release it up on the world our bio security depends upon the ability to rapidly respond to it and an mrna vaccine is probably our most rapid way. You really don't want to do research about that?
▶ 2:39:27Mr. Kaufman: Senator cassidy, I would love to always promote research.
▶ 2:39:32Chair Cassidy: On this in particular, on mrna vaccine as a future pandemic vaccine which I consider a cornerstone of virus security response. Doesn't mean we are going to use the vaccine, but to say we are not going to research it?
▶ 2:39:50Mr. Kaufman: I get accused by my wife all the time about caring too much about technical aspects but let me explain.
▶ 2:39:58Chair Cassidy: You have got to be quick.
▶ 2:40:00Mr. Kaufman: If there is anything new that is novel, the mrna platform will be use the way it has been used in the past the current research proposed was taking existing strains of things we know about and rather than using tested and proven vaccine platforms like viral vectors --
▶ 2:40:21Chair Cassidy: During the covid outbreak, it was the traditional viral vector that caused the thrombin-and bolick disease. -- embolic disease. Mrna was safer than the traditional viral vector. Do we not do more research because people were dying of strokes?
▶ 2:40:47Mr. Kaufman: If I'm confirmed I will care tremendously about patient outcomes.
▶ 2:40:57Chair Cassidy: The question is, I'm flabbergasted that you would support stopping research on mrna vaccines because of adverse events. There is an adverse event for the aleve I took this morning for my bad knee. That does not mean I don't continue to take them. Because the risk-benefit ratio favors the benefit.
▶ 2:41:24Chair Cassidy: There has been multiple studies, since the pandemic showing the risk than if it ratio for example for pregnant women, favors taking immunization. How do you defend not doing research with mrna vaccines going forward?
▶ 2:41:40Mr. Kaufman: Moving forward I would love to do more research on mrna vaccines.
▶ 2:41:46Chair Cassidy: I'm talking about developing another vaccine because cdc and nih do the type of research you are describing, the retrospective, longitudinal follow-up. This is, again, directly in your bailiwick. You would be responsible for yes, I approve this or don't. The fact you are casting doubt upon it is concerning.
▶ 2:42:10Mr. Kaufman: I'm sorry, I don't believe I'm casting doubt. I want research, I want a better mrna platform, but I believe before we proceed we owe it to those who had issues, not just those who benefited and did ok. We owe itto everyone --
▶ 2:42:30Chair Cassidy: How do you do that without doing research? That is the whole point of research, to determine how to do that more safely.
▶ 2:42:37Mr. Kaufman: The covid-19 mrna was the only mrna platform ever used, the first time it was ever used. I think we should be asking questions.
▶ 2:42:46Chair Cassidy: Let me go on. You mentioned someplace he deleted linkedin post about the association your mind between the hepatitis b birth dose and then saying in countries that had a birth dose, they had the highest rates of hepatitis b. Of course that was misleading.
▶ 2:43:15Chair Cassidy: The reason they started the birth dose is because they had a high rate of hepatitis b being passed from mother to baby. If you look at the age at which they begin to have hepatitis b, and birth, there was no hepatitis b after that. It was the people who were not vaccinated that had the burden of disease. So your linkedin post was either uninformed or deliberate misleading.
▶ 2:43:38Chair Cassidy: But when speaking about alaska, they had endemic hepatitis b in the native alaskan population and only with those vaccines it went away. If we are talking about restoring trust and misinformation, I don't know what you're thinking, why would you repeat those dam lies? That destroys trust. And we don't start getting back to where we trust unless people speak the truth.
▶ 2:44:05Chair Cassidy: I'm sorry to be worked up about this but I have seen people die from these vaccine preventable diseases including hepatitis b and you are going to be one of the leaders in our response. Respond to that, please.
▶ 2:44:19Mr. Kaufman: Senator cassidy, for 30 years of public health, whether I have been at university teaching in classes, or in trenton, new jersey with postal employees post anthrax exposure, I have promoted vaccinesas a public health --
▶ 2:44:35Chair Cassidy: I'm speaking specifically about the linkedin post.
▶ 2:44:39Mr. Kaufman: The linkedin post that was pulled down for multiple reasons. I may gen xer. My social media skills are not as good as everyone's today, but I saw they were divisive, and I didn't want to divide people as a result of that post. But it did have a critical aspect. Within that post I did say I will always believe vaccines are the gold standard of public health. It is in that same post.
▶ 2:45:04Mr. Kaufman: And that post individual submit per presented and mischaracterized that I tied the infant dose to autism is a mischaracterization. I said public health owes it to the people to take a look at why there has been such an increase in autism and allergies. Even though I mentioned it in the same article, I never tried it directly to the infant dose of hepatitis b.
▶ 2:45:27Chair Cassidy: Putting it in the same article -- the critical thing is, and I ask it not to be anything but trying to illuminate. Do you understand the difference between causation and association?
▶ 2:45:42Mr. Kaufman: 100%.
▶ 2:45:43Chair Cassidy: Just because there is an increase in something -- I once vaccinated a young lady for hepatitis b and she subsequent got pregnant. There is no violation -- there is no biological way in which they meet caused her pregnancy. To establish an association and imply, because it is still the same article, it would be disingenuous to attempt it wasn't an attempt to imply. -- to say it wasn't an attempt to imply.
▶ 2:46:14Chair Cassidy: Can you guess it -- if you add five years to1991, a sharp increase in autism rates around that time. That looks like it is trying to establish a connection.
▶ 2:46:28Mr. Kaufman: Senator cassidy, I again believe in vaccines and infant dose of hepatitis b. My children are vaccinated. I believe vaccines have eradicated smallpox and changed the face of polio. I know what I wrote, I know what I did. I believe autism and allergies in this country have significantly increased. I believe we owe it to the public to explore and identify why.
▶ 2:47:00Mr. Kaufman: Vaccines are safe and effective.
▶ 2:47:00Chair Cassidy: If you are approved to this job, would you advocate for changing back to our previous topic? Research for the use of the mrna platform, to develop, to see its potential, infighting future respiratory viruses or any other illness for which it could be potentially applied?
▶ 2:47:30Mr. Kaufman: If I'm confirmed I will fight for the very best mrna platform, vaccine strategy for all americans -- I will fight for research.
▶ 2:47:44Chair Cassidy: Dr. schwartz, one last question and we will wrap it up. Thank you for your patience. I have a sense you are way over prepped for this. In our conversation we spoke with two doctors I felt like you were always trying not to answer my question. Which was disappointing.
▶ 2:48:09Chair Cassidy: So, if you don't know that kennedy asked manarez to approve, blanket iscp recommendations, then they didn't prep you on that because that is public knowledge. No he may dispute it, but that is public knowledge. To claim that his theoretical does a disservice to you, it really does.
▶ 2:48:39Chair Cassidy: I'm here feeling as if I'm having to represent the public health of the united states of america so it is not taken over by people who are ideologically inclined and looking to file a lawsuit, not looking to prevent disease. Have you ever fired someone before?
▶ 2:48:57Dr. Schwartz: I have, chairman.
▶ 2:49:00Chair Cassidy: Have you stood up to a senior, someone in charge of you, and told them they were wrong and that you would not carry out that order?
▶ 2:49:10Dr. Schwartz: A very specific example, coast guard wanted to transition from a paper health record system to an electronic health record system. My leadership asked me what my recommendations were. It made sense to go with dod. Dod was having huge modernization with their hr. Not only that, it would save the coast guard money and be part of a broader ecosystem, are coast guard beneficiaries and active-duty members were using the dod ecosystem.
▶ 2:49:42Dr. Schwartz: I made that recommendation clear to my leadership. My leadership said thank you for your recommendation and said we will build our own instance of an ehr. Several years later 60 million taxpayer dollars later, they still did not have their own instance of an ehr. They look to me and said what was it you recommended again? I said we should be going with the dod ehr.
▶ 2:50:06Dr. Schwartz: Many but sirs, but ma'ams, as they were trying to crate their own instance of an ehr. They were ignored and guess what? To this day the coast guard is using the dod ehr, per my recommendation. There was a period of time where my recordations were not listened to.
▶ 2:50:29Dr. Schwartz: I respected chain of command, but had many instances where my recordations were ignored by policymakers.
▶ 2:50:37Chair Cassidy: A little bit of a different scenario. If you believe the demographics of the U.S. are similar to those of denmark, and therefore we should adopt denmark's type of recommendations, versus the knowledge the U.S. demographics are quite different, would you just carry out the order? Because you will be at the place where the rubber hits the road. This is not a theoretical. We hear this coming down.
▶ 2:51:07Chair Cassidy: Anyone who knows an iota of our demographics knows we are not denmark.
▶ 2:51:13Dr. Schwartz: You are a physician, I'm a physician. You know when you have had a question about something like with hepatology you did not just look at american-based studies, you looked at some studies in other countries. You yourself made the assessment, we are different, the demographics are different. My recommendation is not that we go with the denmark study.
▶ 2:51:36Dr. Schwartz: What I was trying to say was, the president asked the secretary, take a look, double-click, maybe there is nothing there, maybe there is something there.
▶ 2:51:45Chair Cassidy: That is not my question my question is, if the recommendation was made to implement a system which is not appropriate for U.S. demographics, one example. Alaskan natives have a high incidence of mother to be be transmission of hepatitis b. Denmark doesn't have that. We are different than denmark. They say in denmark they don't do it we are not doing it, what do you think?
▶ 2:52:16Chair Cassidy: It could be I'm going to take the order and executed even if I disagree. It has to be something firmer. , stop no, timeout, this is wrong. Dr. manarez did that and I think she will go down in history with great credit. That is the courage it takes to lead the cdc. My question to you in that situation would you accept the asip recommendations even if attempting to adopt a situation not appropriate?
▶ 2:52:43Dr. Schwartz: I would never, ever except asip recommendations without doing a deep dive into what those recommendations are or were. I would work with career scientist at the cdc, and the chief medical officer. We would look at the evidence, where are they getting it? Are these randomized controlled studies, test negative design studies? We would make sure we understood the weight of the evidence they used to make the recommendations.
▶ 2:53:11Dr. Schwartz: If the weight of evidence is not there or the science is questionable, you have my commitment that I would not at all ever agree to those recommendations.
▶ 2:53:20Chair Cassidy: Thank you. Thank you again for both being here. It is been a long meeting, so thank you. For members wishing to ask questions for the record those are do it 5:00 p.m. Tomorrow, july 16. We stand adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]