▶ 0:11:59Chair Cruz: Good morning, the senate committee on commerce, science, and transportation will come to order. We consider the nomination of david cummins to be the next administrator of the transportation security administration at a crucial time for the dsa.
▶ 0:12:16Chair Cruz: In the past year tsa employees had to work for nearly three months without a paycheck due to two pointless, unnecessary, and damaging democrat I've imposed shutdowns. Roughly 75 day shutdown.
▶ 0:12:38Chair Cruz: Tsa has now lost more than 1001 employees because the democrats thought it was a good idea to shut down the government and stop paying people whose job it is to keep air travel safe. The efficient and secure operation of our nation's airports is vital to the smooth flow of commerce and travel for americans. The tsa is central to that mission.
▶ 0:13:03Chair Cruz: It is my hope that under the leadership of david cummins the tsa will focus on its mission, continuously innovate to stay ahead of emerging threats, adapt to new traveler trends, and improve employee morale. Mr. cummins has spent more than two decades of private sector experience leading transportation technology, mobility, and government services operations.
▶ 0:13:32Chair Cruz: In his recent role as a senior vice president of citizens services at serco inc. He managed an employee division and has held senior roles at the xerox transportation and government services business and let operations planning for the 2002 salt lake city olympics winter games.
▶ 0:13:56Chair Cruz: With nearly 65,000 employees today, the tsa functions much like a complex large corporation . As a private sector business executive Mr. cummins has the acumen needed to keep an organization like the tsa lien, focused, and operating smoothly. He has already identified screening technology modernization, workforce morale, and improving the traveler experience as a priority for his tenure as administrator. Mr.
▶ 0:14:26Chair Cruz: Cummins will also take the helm at a time when tsa is focused on modernizing the agency. After 9/11, the U.S. endeavor to create the most secure transportation system in the world. In recent years, however, the tsa has struggled to roll out new technology at airports, including top-of-the-line baggage and identity verification technologies. Some estimates suggest the tsa will not fully deploy these new technologies until the 20 40's.
▶ 0:14:55Chair Cruz: This timeline is simply unacceptable. Innovative thinking will be needed to change the tsa's current trajectory. This fall marks 25 years since the september 11 terrorist attacks. The administration should be thoughtfully evaluating the success of the tsa.
▶ 0:15:19Chair Cruz: Congress should similarly evaluate if the tsa functions as an auto security agency and why it has been mired in bureaucracy. Between tsa's management of modernization efforts, technology procurement, delayed cybersecurity roles, and reliance on security directives and the commercialization of drone operations, the tsa needs an administrator who is prepared to tackle significant challenges. Mr.
▶ 0:15:47Chair Cruz: Cummins will bring practical management background and has the expertise to lead the tsa as it seeks to improve operational performance, technology modernization, and service delivery headed into 2030. I look forward to hearing from Mr. cummins about his vision for the tsa and how he will further the mission of ensuring safe and efficient transportation for all americans. With that I recognize the ranking member for his opening statement.
▶ 0:16:16Sen. Kim: Thank you for your nomination and for being here. We are approaching this milestone a 25 years since the attack of september 11, 2001. In the aftermath of that devastating day we recognized a fragmented, privatized, inconsistent aviation framework was a vulnerability we can no longer report.
▶ 0:16:37Sen. Kim: Congress established the transportation security agency to ensure that securing our transportation systems was treated as a unified and deliberate national security mission. We must rededicate ourselves to ensuring the highest levels of transportation security for the traveling public. Tsa needs an effective leader that can ensure the agency proactively predicts, acts, and prevents security risks.
▶ 0:17:06Sen. Kim: The 9/11 reports warn we need a multilayered security system that depends on a highly trained, federally accountable workforce. It is crucial that the next tsa administrator supports a strong tsa workforce and listens to front-line personnel to achieve this mission. However, the president's proposed fiscal year 2027 budget request seeks to cut more than 9000 400 tsa personnel through expanding privatized screening and other initiatives.
▶ 0:17:35Sen. Kim: In short, the administration wants to reduce personnel in favor of automated technology deployment. This includes a proposed expansion of the screening partnership program with new aims. 21 of the 440 commercial airports nationwide participate in spp with the vast majority relying on security officers despite already having the option of choosing private contractors.
▶ 0:18:04Sen. Kim: Instead of keeping this program voluntary for airports to opt into, smaller category three and four airports would be required to apply and of the administration is seeking additional authorities with the goal of fully privatizing these airports. If implemented, this expansion would result in 52 million dollars in net savings by slashing thousands of federal tsa positions from the budget roles and stripping public servants of their right under the existing collective bargaining agreements.
▶ 0:18:33Sen. Kim: In addition, re-risk compromising security oversight of vital screening technologies. The trump administration's new tsa gold plus program and not only outsource personnel, but would also allow private contractors to manage, procure, and of great screening technologies and equipment. The gao found the tsa repeatedly struggles to ensure its screening technologies maintain strict detection requirements over their lifecycle.
▶ 0:19:02Sen. Kim: The federal government already struggles with oversight, delegating these critical acquisition and maintenance roles the private vendors under the new tsa gold plus program makes no sense. This would only serve to further weaken tsa controls of the most sensitive technology in aviation security. Mr. cummings, these proposals would hurt the workforce dedicated to the security of the traveling public each day.
▶ 0:19:29Sen. Kim: Private contractors answer to the bottom line, incentivizing them to cut labor costs. The tsa's privatization push is built on offloading its highest expenditure, personnel compensation and benefits. Let's remember, tsa's critical transportation security mandate extends far beyond our airports. Our pipelines, freight, and passenger rail systems are under constant threat from cyber epic series -- from cyber adversaries.
▶ 0:19:59Sen. Kim: Following the colonial pipeline attack tsa used its authority to issue urgent mandatory security directives to secure our service transportation systems. However, the agency has still not finalized in its november 20 24 proposed rulemaking to permanently codify these performance-based risk, cyber risk requirements. Simply issuing the rule as a bipartisan mandate in the senate-passed pipeline safety is active.
▶ 0:20:26Sen. Kim: We must be clear eyed about what we can lose under the administration's budget cuts and anti-worker initiatives. Tso's have stood on the front line of our transportation system, keeping the flying public safe and the economy moving. They are sounding the alarm.
▶ 0:20:42Sen. Kim: Representing over 45,000 tso's and more than 400 airports nationwide, the president of the american federation of government employees recently testified to congress, technology alone cannot replace experienced personnel at checkpoints, the de-escalation you need. You need an experienced tso to do that job and they do it well.
▶ 0:21:05Sen. Kim: I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter from a fte asking the committee to obtain clear testimony from Mr. cummings to commit to a poll tso collective bargaining rights and honoring related court orders to not expand privatization of airport security screenings and to explain how his qualifications repair him for this transportation security role.
▶ 0:21:29Chair Cruz: Without objection, entered into the record.
▶ 0:21:31Sen. Kim: Your former contracting firm serco, it has been reported trained I.c.e. Officers criticized by human rights officers criticized for their detention centers overseas. I hope you can help the committee shine some light on those issues. With that, you'll back.
▶ 0:21:56Chair Cruz: Mr. cummins, you are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:21:57Mr. Cummins: Chairman cruz, ranking member kim, distinct members of this committee, I am deeply honored to be considered as president trumps nominee to lead the transportation security administration. I want to begin by thanking my wife and our four children, whose patients and unwavering support have made it possible for me to be here today. I also want to thank president trump and secretary mullin, deeply honored by the trust the police to me and encouragement they provided.
▶ 0:22:24Mr. Cummins: A few weeks ago I met a tsa officer, tso, from the dallas fort worth officer named lucy. If she were here today she would remind us 25 years ago our nation changed forever when hijacked airlines were used as weapons. She would tell you that she still carries that weight every morning as she walks past the not on our watch assigned to her post.
▶ 0:22:49Mr. Cummins: Lucy told me that during this last government shutdown she and her fellow officers were not just struggling for months to pay rent, gas, and childcare. They were struggling to even feed their families. I also visited los angeles and indianapolis, where I learned tso's relied on local food banks just to keep their households fed. Tso's like lucy have a zero-fail national security mission.
▶ 0:23:17Mr. Cummins: There is too much at stake to have them distracted by months without pay. If confirmed, we will explore various ways to protect our people, including the expansion of the screening partnership program, spp. Some suggest the spp is all about privatization and it is antiworker. I hold that it is, in fact, pro-worker to pay your employees as the spp airports did during the last shutdowns.
▶ 0:23:49Mr. Cummins: The opt in expansion of the spp will leverage the resources of the private sector to make our nation's security more resilient political theater. Over the last 25 years as the horrors of 9/11 have naturally grown this vivid, our front line tso's and federal air marshals have increasingly felt undervalued by a nation that has sometimes lost sight of their critical role. We owe them a debt of gratitude.
▶ 0:24:18Mr. Cummins: If confirmed, my very first responsibility would be to go out to our airports, look lucy and her colleagues in the eyes, and show them how deeply they are appreciated. I want them to know how essential their mission is and that I will do everything in my power to protect and support them in the future. These vanguards at our checkpoints also told me that an upgrade of our technology is long overdue.
▶ 0:24:46Mr. Cummins: They want us to rapidly deploy next-generation baggage scanning and passenger screening systems to make their work more secure and efficient. I am committed to the modernization of our aviation security and to ensuring tsa is positioned to stay ahead of emerging threats. We do not have to choose between a secure checkpoint and an efficient checkpoint or an elevated traveler experience.
▶ 0:25:14Mr. Cummins: In fact, our mission demands that we achieve all three at once. That is president trump's and secretary mullin's vision for the tsa and it is what the american people rightfully expect from this agency. I come to you not as a bureaucrat but a transportation executive and technologist.
▶ 0:25:39Mr. Cummins: My career spans the entire transportation system including urban mobility, highway safety, port security, and air traffic control. I will bring this experiments and innovation to help the tsa secure with this administration calls the golden age of travel. Lucy and her colleagues can and will let you security, efficiency and a courteous experience for the traveling public.
▶ 0:26:06Mr. Cummins: Chairman cruz, ranking member kaine, distinguished members of this committee, the challenges ahead are significant, but the opportunities to transform the tsa on the eve of its 25th anniversary are even greater. Thank you for your time, your commitment, and your vital oversight.
▶ 0:26:27Chair Cruz: Thank you. Over the last year tens of thousands of tsa employees had to work without pay for approximately 90 days between two democrat-cost shutdowns. From february to may of this year, over 1100 tsa employees have left the agency.
▶ 0:26:48Chair Cruz: As we inched closer to yet another government funding fight we are facing the very likely prospect of yet a third democrat-imposed shutdown. I government shutdown would be profoundly disruptive for the traveling public. How would a another shutdown affected tsa's workforce?
▶ 0:27:14Mr. Cummins: Thank you, chairman. I have talked to dozens of tso's at a number of airports over the last three weeks as a senior advisor, just trying to understand what they, a, went through during the shutdown, and what they are going through today. I can confirm their morale is very, very low. They are feeling very underappreciated by the american public and specifically by this government.
▶ 0:27:40Mr. Cummins: They fear the prospect -- they watch the news, they hear about the prospect of another shutdown. As you mentioned, we have had significant attrition because of the last two shutdowns. Not just entry-level workers, but folks who have been with the agency for 20 years or more. So, I'm deeply concerned that in the face of another shutdown we will start seeing attrition pickup.
▶ 0:28:06Mr. Cummins: So, we need to be prepared as an agency and to develop contingency plans on how we are going to deal with that eventuality if it happens. But please, I ask this committee to do whatever you can to keep that from happening and to ensure our workers are paid.
▶ 0:28:24Chair Cruz: The american people should be fully aware that federal funding expires september 30. I believe the odds are 100% that the democrats intend to force yet another shutdown starting october 1 of this year. Minority leader schumer is not an individual known for his creativity or versatility.
▶ 0:28:47Chair Cruz: One year ago, in the month before election day, democrats forced a shutdown, and they believe they benefited politically by shutting the government down. I think that tactic was profoundly cynical. It abused tsa agents and officers. It damaged the agency profoundly. It increased the risks of a terror attack.
▶ 0:29:18Chair Cruz: And it imposed enormous pain on the flying public, resulting in millions of passengers having their flights delayed or canceled. I don't believe that should ever happen again. I understand our democrat colleagues hope they win the election in november, but imposing that kind of unnecessary suffering is not an appropriate step to try to win and election.
▶ 0:29:51Chair Cruz: I've introduced to keep america flying act, bipartisan legislation that says, essential employees -- like tsa personnel and air traffic controllers, and those federal employees necessary to keep our planes flying in the air safely -- will be paid regardless of the partisan games that either party plays.
▶ 0:30:17Chair Cruz: We should never again have tsa agents not getting their paycheck. We should never again have air traffic controllers not getting their paycheck. We should never again have the flying public put in danger for the partisan political objectives of the democrats. Do you support the keep america flying act?
▶ 0:30:39Mr. Cummins: Thank you, chairman cruz. We support anything congress can do, and we champion your efforts specifically, Mr. chairman, to keep our workers paid.
▶ 0:30:54Mr. Cummins: If I had lucy sitting next to me today, she would look all of you in the eyes and say, "please, don't do it again, please don't do it again." I would like to lay out that I can't say what will happen if there is an extended shutdown again, but what I can say what is likely to happen is we are going to have significant attrition, mass callouts again, and a situation, particularly in the smaller airports, where a
▶ 0:31:25Mr. Cummins: Handful of people don't show we will have to shutdown the entire checkpoint which means basically shutting down the entire airport. It is one of the reasons we are aggressively pushing the expansion of the spp program, because these airports need resilience, and having private contractors pay the tso's during a shutdown provides resilience. So, thank you for your efforts, chairman, and we will support you in anyway possible that we can.
▶ 0:31:56Chair Cruz: Thank thank you. Ranking member kim.
▶ 0:31:58Sen. Kim: Before I came into congress I was a career federal government worker. I worked in multiple shutdowns. Did not get my paycheck. And it was frustrating. It was. What you said about lucy. You want her to be able to do her job, right? We will find ways, and I hope that we can ensure that because they are working hard and they should be able to get paid. What I also want to make sure is they can do their job. Lucy wants to be able to do the job she signed up for, right.
▶ 0:32:28Sen. Kim: I guess I would ask you, if you were directed to pull tsa screeners from american airports and cities deemed sanctuary cities, would you follow those orders?
▶ 0:32:39Mr. Cummins: So, we in tsa are one component of many components within dhs. We are one dhs. We do not operate in silos. We will support the mission of the larger agency, which is --
▶ 0:32:57Sen. Kim: What would happen to our airports if you pull tsa screeners away from their jobs?
▶ 0:33:02Mr. Cummins: I can't speak to the hypothetical of that happening.
▶ 0:33:06Sen. Kim: It is not a -- my state was threatened specifically about this in new jersey. We ran a lot of models about what would happen. You know what would happen. The airports would shut down. You have a tremendous amount of damage to our economy. The flying public would not be able to go about. You talked about wanting lucy to be able to do her job. I am in agreement on that.
▶ 0:33:34Sen. Kim: You think it is ok for her to be pulled from doing the tsa screening she signed up for an have to do some other job alongside I.c.e. Or some other aspect of dhs? Do you think that's fair?
▶ 0:33:46Mr. Cummins: We have plenty of opportunities, because we are hiring like mad because of the attrition I said. If this hypothetical were to happen, that certain airports were going to be closed temporarily until legal immigration can be enforced around those cities, I can't speak to whether that would happen, but if that were, at the direction provided by this administration, we would ensure the tso's that those
▶ 0:34:17Mr. Cummins: Airports were positioned to other airports nearby. We are constantly shifting officers around to help supplement when we have shifts in demand.
▶ 0:34:30Sen. Kim: You would agree much like what we experienced during the shutdown that this would be disruptive to the flying public and cause economic harm to our country?
▶ 0:34:33Mr. Cummins: What I would say is we are in a very politicized environment. We all need to recognize that aviation security is impaired often times by politics.
▶ 0:34:51Sen. Kim: I want to say the public will be furious about this if this happens. The same way they were furious during the shutdown. This is something we should try to avoid. Talking about lucy wanting to be able to do her job, look, there are lots of people like lucy who want to do their jobs, and lots of people who, like lucy, and tsa, who want to make sure they can have collective bargaining rights.
▶ 0:35:17Sen. Kim: I want to ask you, do you agree about codifying collective bargaining rights for tsa workers?
▶ 0:35:24Mr. Cummins: The collective bargaining agreement we have in place with tsa today, which we are abiding by today because we are following the court order that is in place, it actually has an impact on our flexibility to scale with variable demand. As we all know in every airport on any given day you can have a spike in the number of travelers and it is incumbent upon us to shift our supplied to me that variable demand.
▶ 0:35:55Mr. Cummins: The cba rules as they are currently written dramatically under that ability. You have to bid on your shift months in advance. It's difficult to trade shifts. It is seniority-based. I worked in the private sector with 2000 employees under me that were under cba's. You learn to work with it, but it hinders your ability to deliver on mission.
▶ 0:36:21Mr. Cummins: In this case, our mission is national security. National security should never be hindered by work rules that limit our ability to flex and be as agile as the threats we encounter.
▶ 0:36:33Sen. Kim: I think these workers respect and want to do their jobs. I think that in the agreement should be made. If there are ways in which we can ensure that mission success is the paramount goal, of course these workers want to do so. But they want to have a say in it. If you need more resources, more personnel, come to congress because that is what we are trying to do. We don't want the trump administration budget to cut thousands of workers from tsa.
▶ 0:37:05Sen. Kim: If you are going to evoke lucy's name, the name of the tso's, listen to them. Respect them. Give them a say in their own work. Don't just think it is something that you from the top down can order them to leave their jobs, their posts in sanctuary cities or elsewhere. I urge you that if you are going to stand up and say that you care about the workers, care about it in total. Give them the rights, the respect they deserve. With that I yield back. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:37:39Sen. Kim: Mr. cummings, you were an executive at a company called serco. How long were you there?
▶ 0:37:43Mr. Cummins: Nine years. >> how many total employees did you have?
▶ 0:37:49Mr. Cummins: Under me, 5000.
▶ 0:37:53Sen. Moreno: How many of those employees did you not pay who came to work?
▶ 0:37:57Mr. Cummins: We never didn't pay them.
▶ 0:38:03Sen. Moreno: Every time they came to work you paid them? What would've happened if you didn't pay them?
▶ 0:38:10Mr. Cummins: They would have left.
▶ 0:38:12Sen. Moreno: Would probably get in a wage for our lawsuit that would be filed by my democratic colleagues. Yet, they had no problem, they didn't even wince at the idea of not paying two hundred 60,000 members of the department of homeland security for 43 days. It didn't even bother them.
▶ 0:38:35Sen. Moreno: In fact, when senator kennedy and I went on the floor to put together a bill that said we should have our paychecks withheld while government employees were not getting paid, they objected to that. Think about what would've happened in your case at serco if the executives were being paid and you paid none of your employees. What would have happened?
▶ 0:38:55Sen. Moreno: Let >>
▶ 0:45:20Sen. Moreno: Thank you, senator. I want to affirm what you said about the workers. I want to hear that the 55,000 are the lifeblood of the agency. There is talk about cva and privatization. They are our center of gravity and we always protect them.
▶ 0:45:42Sen. Moreno: When it comes to technology, we have only just begun the modernization of the security channel, but I am really excited about the opportunity to roll out some of these new three-day -- 3d baggage scanners and body scanners that don't require you to put your arms in the air. They are much more secure and efficient than the legacy technology.
▶ 0:46:09Sen. Moreno: We are exploring other technologies around the gates that allow us to put the water bottles through checkpoints. I'm encouraged by the technology center over at national airport to see the process we are going through certified as technology to make sure it is indeed secure.
▶ 0:46:31Sen. Moreno: Talking about the friction of travel, we believe the pain point isn't necessarily that you have to wait in line for security. We all have to wait in line for various things. When we are at the grocery store we are expected to wait in line. The pain point is we don't know how long the wait is going to be.
▶ 0:46:52Sen. Moreno: We would like to allow technology that will be able to predict what the wait times will be when you arrive at the airport in two hours and be able to push that information out to you, maybe through your boarding pass or google maps or apple maps or uber. We would like to take the surprise out of travel.
▶ 0:47:18Sen. Moreno: We all hate when we are rounding the check in mine and we see, my goodness, look how long the project line is or the standard line is. That surprise is painful but as you don't know if you can still make your flight. >> I want to ask because mcghee tyson airport in tennessee which has grown 18.6%, the growth in 2024, flight service, the growth in tennessee, all of our airports are growing.
▶ 0:47:46Sen. Moreno: They are trying to extend runways. As they are extending runways, what you are seeing is an extension of these wait times. At the airport. To expand the tsa security. Getting calls regularly at the knoxville airport. The wait times to get through tsa are two hours.
▶ 0:48:15Sen. Moreno: We have increased flights with allegiant and southwest. There has been two of the lines that are down because of the scanners. Things of that nature. We need your attention on this issue in order to make certain -- first of all, we have technicians doing the repairs. Secondly, we are looking at these travel loads.
▶ 0:48:43Sen. Moreno: We will be properly staffed in order to meet that load. Will you commit to working with us on that?
▶ 0:48:52Mr. Cummins: Yes, I will commit to working with you on that. I would love to visit those airports.
▶ 0:48:58Sen. Blackburn: Come on down, greatest state in the usa, we would love to have you.
▶ 0:49:06Chair Cruz: Senator fischer.
▶ 0:49:07Sen. Fischer: Thank you for your willingness to serve in this position. It is a difficult position. It has so much public attention to it. I have hopes you will be able to solve some of these issues that we have been faced with. One of our many airports in nebraska, the north platte regional airport, is set to open a new terminal building later this summer.
▶ 0:49:38Sen. Fischer: Though they have run into some issues with tsa they stated the local tsa office in omaha has been great to work with and they appreciate their continued cooperation. As they make this transition to the new terminal I would like to see that continued cooperation between north platte and the tsa. If you are confirmed, will you commit to working with me to make sure there is a successful transition of tsa's operation to that new terminal?
▶ 0:50:07Mr. Cummins: Yes, I will.
▶ 0:50:10Sen. Fischer: As you know, tsa is tasked with not only addressing security and our airports, but surface transportation threats as well. Historically tsa has spent approximately 2% to 3% of its budget on surface transportation programs.
▶ 0:50:29Sen. Fischer: For example, tsa has issued multiple security directors on pipeline security following the 2021 ransomware attack on colonial pipeline including a directive that requires performance-based security measures for pipeline operators. How do you believe the agency can better use its resources to address ongoing threats to our surface transportation systems?
▶ 0:50:57Mr. Cummins: Thank you, senator fischer. As you know, I spent many years working on highway safety. Whether it is commercial trucking safety, whether it is motorist assist, for passenger vehicles rather that breakdown, helping passengers, maybe filling up fuel, changing tires, all of that. I have been working with for many years now.
▶ 0:51:25Mr. Cummins: You are right to point out that the tsa's mission has probably been too focused just on aviation. May be at the expense of other modes of transportation as well as pipelines. I want to work closely with this committee as we think about how we can work with industry and this committee to better put in place a regulatory environment that makes our highways for example more safe and secure.
▶ 0:51:54Mr. Cummins: The new emerging threats, seeing, for example, with drones can do on highways in ukraine. We need to always be vigilant, staying ahead of these emerging threats.
▶ 0:52:06Sen. Fischer: Do you support the continued use of that performance-based approach to cybersecurity oversight going forward?
▶ 0:52:14Mr. Cummins: I do.
▶ 0:52:15Sen. Fischer: Are you aware of how that works?
▶ 0:52:18Mr. Cummins: I am aware we have been a bit negligent in putting in place the regulatory environment around it cybersecurity, particularly for the pipelines. Since it was first issued after the colonial cyberattack, you commit to this committee to see that through to resolution very quickly.
▶ 0:52:40Sen. Fischer: You mentioned drones. We saw a few weeks ago that jetblue airways pilot reported striking zone on the aircraft was on approach to the jfk airport. Thankfully the plane landed safely and the incident is still under investigation. According to the faa, it receives more than 100 reports each month of drone sightings near airports.
▶ 0:53:11Sen. Fischer: So while tsa is working with the faa to undertake new efforts to address these concerns, what additional steps do you think the agency can undertake to ensure the safety of the flying public?
▶ 0:53:27Mr. Cummins: I was surprised to learn these past three weeks that the federal air marshals of the tsa have been working for years on counter uis, counter drone interception. They have been working the fifa world cup events and helped intercept, so far, 600 drones in collaboration with the fbi and secret service and local law enforcement.
▶ 0:53:52Mr. Cummins: We already have this capability, but to your point in needs to be invested in, and it needs to cover the totality of all of our airports. And so we have been in active discussions on -- dhs has -- to see how we can utilize some of the funding to increase our cuas efforts and we think now it has become a core part of our mission at tsa.
▶ 0:54:21Mr. Cummins: Not just about screening and making sure people don't get on planes with bad intentions, but also we have to be careful not just about bad actors with drones, but also hobbyists. That are negligent and do something to -- something like what happened with the jetblue incident.
▶ 0:54:40Sen. Fischer: In your comments you mentioned your excitement in looking at the next generation screening equipment and the possibilities that exist there in better detection moving the public through this faster. How would you attempt to not only accelerate that screening modernization but position tsa to better -- to be better equipped to deploy those new technologies?
▶ 0:55:09Mr. Cummins: Well, we are thankful to this congress for funding our fiscal year 26 capital budget, which gives us a big boost that we haven't had for many years. We are looking forward to the prospect of that continuing. Fiscal year 27 as well. We really do have the opportunity to put in this technology -- and to be clear, this is mostly about improved security.
▶ 0:55:38Mr. Cummins: The good thing is with this new technology you also get improved throughput. The bags go through quicker. The people go through quicker. And our checkpoints become more secure and the travelers, of course, are delighted by the prospect as well. I look forward to working with this committee to demonstrate this new technology to you all so you can see with your own eyes the benefits from it.
▶ 0:56:04Sen. Fischer: I recently had a tour of the construction at the omaha airport and they are doing a major build and remodel and got behind the scenes with new baggage system. It is really something. Hopefully we can get you to an airport in nebraska and you can be able to see some of this.
▶ 0:56:26Mr. Cummins: I look forward to it. Thank you, senator.
▶ 0:56:31Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator peters has agreed to let senator hickenlooper go ahead of him.
▶ 0:56:38Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you, appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. cummins, for being here and taking on this challenge. I want to go back over -- I didn't quite hear everything. I want to ask you a little question about issues on sanctuary cities. How many drones did you say that you intercepted during fifa?
▶ 0:57:01Mr. Cummins: It was a collaborative effort. 600 drones have been intercepted so far.
▶ 0:57:05Sen. Hickenlooper: How many of those work newsgathering? How many were amateurs screwing around. How many potentially the benevolent?
▶ 0:57:18Mr. Cummins: I can't speak to the potential that were malevolent, but I do no arrests were made. I would say that the vast majority were answer grammars and folks who wanted to get a view of what was happening in the stadiums.
▶ 0:57:31Sen. Hickenlooper: But still dangerous, obviously, as you clearly pointed out. You have -- I'm not sure I quite understood your answer. When secretary mullin told sean hannity at the department of homeland security -- I think the phrase used, was "drawing up plans" to stop processing international travelers and cargo in airports and remove customs officers from international airports in so-called sanctuary cities.
▶ 0:58:03Sen. Hickenlooper: Have you discussed these plans with secretary mullin? Have you talked to commissioner scott about this?
▶ 0:58:10Mr. Cummins: I have not.
▶ 0:58:11Sen. Hickenlooper: I'm sure you are aware there is no accepted definition of what a sanctuary city is. It's hotly debated by those cities in various cities but what definition there is.
▶ 0:58:25Sen. Hickenlooper: I would argue that our air traffic system, both in terms of tourism and casual travelers, but also the business cargo, that is a network that is very interdependent. I think diminishing in any way the services that one city gets compared to another city would actually affect the whole. You understand what I'm saying?
▶ 0:58:52Mr. Cummins: I do.
▶ 0:58:54Sen. Hickenlooper: Would you agree to that?
▶ 0:58:57Mr. Cummins: I would say if we do reach the point where we are going to partially or completely reduce services at sanctuary city airports, I look forward to coming and meeting with this committee to explain the ramifications of that. I understand it can be significant. As far as I know there are no near-term plans. I have not been informed or read in on any plans to do that by secretary mullin.
▶ 0:59:27Sen. Hickenlooper: You would commit to coming here to making sure we all agree on with the definition is that what we would be sanctioning?
▶ 0:59:33Mr. Cummins: I agree to come back and inform this committee what we plan to do.
▶ 0:59:39Sen. Hickenlooper: Also, in the fiscal year 27 budget request, there is an expansion of the screening partnership program, which allows airports to privatize screeners. I don't know how many you have. 4500 positions. Would they provide comparable benefits and pay?
▶ 1:00:07Mr. Cummins: Yes. In fact, I was at an spp airport last week in kansas city. They are actually paying their entry-level tso's higher than we are paying them as federal employees. The benefits standpoint, from what I have seen, is very comparable. Obviously I am from the private sector. I had air traffic controllers, hundreds of them, underneath me.
▶ 1:00:37Mr. Cummins: They were not paid as much as federal air traffic controllers, but very good benefits. And they stayed with us in some cases for 20, 20 five years. They liked the flexibility of working in the private sector. We can move them to different airports.
▶ 1:00:54Mr. Cummins: I guess -- I just want you to know that as we expand the spp program, which we intend to do, the existing employees have the right of first refusal to take those jobs. In our experience all of them take the jobs and they stay there.
▶ 1:01:12Sen. Hickenlooper: The difference is they give up their collective bargaining. That is the question long term. I think there are a lot of examples out there, whether it is auto or whatever, that over a long-term, collective bargaining allows workers, people actually doing the work, to be more fairly compensated or compensated at a higher level.
▶ 1:01:34Mr. Cummins: I understand how unitization works. I am not antiunion. As I mentioned I've had union workers under me for many years. I will say, as it relates that this particular cba, I don't think there is any material compensation language or difference than the spp airports. It is all about bidding on and trading shifts and the like. I disagree with the premise that they will get paid less.
▶ 1:02:03Sen. Hickenlooper: Sorry, we are talking long-term. I understand now -- it often happens that the wage is carefully gradated now so that it will match the existing wages. I get that. I'm talking long-term. If they are giving up collective bargaining, most people believe that over time that will cost them wages.
▶ 1:02:25Mr. Cummins: I can't speak for how the spp wages have evolved over the last 25 years that they have been in place. I can look into that for you and get back to you on that. My understanding, though, is we do not sacrifice your rights to a collective bargaining agreement as you work for a private company. One of the spp airports in san francisco has a cba in place.
▶ 1:02:55Mr. Cummins: Then don't give up the right -- they don't give up the right to a cba but you're right, they may take time and decide later if they want to do it or not. Our premise is cba's restrict our ability to flex with demand, which is incumbent upon us as a national security agency.
▶ 1:03:12Sen. Hickenlooper: I hear that. I am out of time. At some point we will continue this discussion.
▶ 1:03:20Chair Cruz: Senator peters.
▶ 1:03:22Sen. Peters: . Thank you, Mr. chairman, Mr. cummings. Thank you for coming by the office earlier to talk about a number of issues. In january, acting administrator mcneil acknowledged tsa's information sharing with I.c.e. During a hearing, but despite that testimony and ongoing requests from staff tsa has either been unable or unwilling to provide details or a briefing about what information is actually being shared.
▶ 1:03:53Sen. Peters: My question for you sir is, if confirmed, do I have your commitment to provide my staff with this information?
▶ 1:03:59Mr. Cummins: After you asked that question yesterday, I went back and talk to my colleagues at dhs, and we are going to work to get back to you at the soonest on that request.
▶ 1:04:12Sen. Peters: With that information you will provide? Getting back and saying we can't give you information -- I don't qualify that is getting back.
▶ 1:04:21Mr. Cummins: That's fair. We need to be responsive and transparent with you. I don't know the specifics of what was asked, but we will try to provide as much as we can within our bounds.
▶ 1:04:36Sen. Peters: I appreciate working with you on that if confirmed. Mr. cummings, as we also discussed in my office, I have long been concerned on how we balance national security with civil liberties when it comes to watch lists and screening. We certainly must protect air travel. That is first and foremost. We also have to do it in a smart and effective way.
▶ 1:04:58Sen. Peters: When I was the chairman of homeland security government affairs I put out a report describing the system and some of its challenges, including a broken rigorous process that is it's easy to get on a list and really hard to get off of a list. If you've can wrongly put on that list, you should have the opportunity to make that happen.
▶ 1:05:17Sen. Peters: Since then, however, there have been reports of individuals who participate in first amendment protest activities, like protests, are receiving additional screening and sometimes losing their trusted traveler status because they are involved in protests, which, as you know, are protected by the first amendment. My question, sir, if confirmed we work with me and my staff to vet redress process?
▶ 1:05:43Mr. Cummins: Thank you for the question and making me aware of that. I didn't understand how protracted and difficult it could be to work with that redress system we have in place and I look forward to working with you and your committee on that.
▶ 1:05:56Sen. Peters: Thank. Mr. cummings, creating a seamless travel experience is an objective we all want to achieve, but it has also raised serious concerns from privacy experts. Many members of congress as well about how americans' biometric data will be used, shared, and stored. I want to give you a few more commitments to make and kind do your sense of where we are on this.
▶ 1:06:21Sen. Peters: First, will you commit to ensuring that americans will be able to opt out of sharing their biometrics for identity verification, that they will not be penalized in any way for making that choice?
▶ 1:06:34Mr. Cummins: Yes, that is the tsa's current policy and will be the future policy under me.
▶ 1:06:40Sen. Peters: Will you commit there will be no changes to the storage of biometric data without tsa first providing congress with clear information about these changes and more importantly why they are actually needed?
▶ 1:06:50Mr. Cummins: Yes, I do commit that.
▶ 1:06:53Sen. Peters: Do you commit tsa will not use this technology to passively collect biometric information?
▶ 1:07:00Mr. Cummins: To where the passengers would not be aware we are collecting their biometric data, is that what you mean by passively? Yes. We want to make sure that americans know when their biometric information is required and they have alternatives they can pursue instead.
▶ 1:07:21Sen. Peters: Will you commit to ensuring all tsa employees and contractors who use biometric capture and recognition technologies are properly trained to implement these commitments that you have just made?
▶ 1:07:34Mr. Cummins: Absolutely. That's very important. Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:07:42Chair Cruz: Thank. Senator fetterman.
▶ 1:07:47Sen. Fetterman: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I believe I am the last in closing so it is going to be more just kind of statements more than specific kind of questions. Tsa workers have missed five full paychecks in the last year because of our government shutdowns. We had tsa agents sleeping in their cars and donating plasma just to stay afloat.
▶ 1:08:20Sen. Fetterman: In pittsburgh, the airport had to open up a food point -- for tsa and their families. You can confirm or deny this, but 1300 tsa agents quit during the 43 shutdown us fall and another 1100 quit during the partial shutdown. Does that sound accurate?
▶ 1:08:44Mr. Cummins: Those figures are correct.
▶ 1:08:48Sen. Fetterman: That is profound. What percentage of your workforce, roughly, percentages of people that left?
▶ 1:08:55Mr. Cummins: It was less than 10% I'm a senator. It was substantial inasmuch as we also lost a lot of highly tenured folks and we are also struggled for quite a while and replacing them because people, frankly, did not want to work for an agency that would not pay them.
▶ 1:09:15Sen. Fetterman: If you could pull the room, how many people would work if you were not paid? Any hands? None up. In pennsylvania, we lost close to 200 tsa agents. What is the average salary for a tsa agent?
▶ 1:09:38Mr. Cummins: Approximately $65,000.
▶ 1:09:42Sen. Fetterman: They probably have yachts and vacation homes right?
▶ 1:09:48Mr. Cummins: No, many times, particularly the starting salary workers are living paycheck-to-paycheck.
▶ 1:09:57Sen. Fetterman: That is the point. As a democrat, if -- we fight for working people. So I became the only democrat to refuse to join the party and shut down our government. Is it fair to say especially the tsa agents were forced to work -- that was very difficult.
▶ 1:10:28Sen. Fetterman: Is that a fair statement?
▶ 1:10:29Mr. Cummins: It was extraordinarily difficult and I want to say how very proud I am that very few airports had call outs and people were coming to work for those few months without pay, which is an extraordinary sacrifice for our country. I am so very proud of that.
▶ 1:10:47Sen. Fetterman: I think all of us, most of us in the senate, we travel every week of the year. Without -- wherever I happen to be in the country at the airport, at least one or two tsa agents will appreciate my stain on this. I am bringing up again after what this has put them through.
▶ 1:11:18Sen. Fetterman: There are conversations about there might be another shutdown. That would have been three shutdowns and punishing the kinds of people that allow airline travel possible. For the party that stands for our working people, now those shut downs, my recollection, we did not bring any changes in ice and we did not bring any health care for those shut downs.
▶ 1:11:51Sen. Fetterman: So that proves what I have always maintained, that during the shutdown, the only losers are american public and especially the kinds of people like the tsa agents. So I do hope that we have learned our lesson and for when a third time is coming up, I will be at least that one democrat that refuses to pledge these people -- plunge these people into these kinds of chaos and deprivation.
▶ 1:12:21Sen. Fetterman: Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:12:22Chair Cruz: Thank you, senator we had Mr. cummins, I want to ask a couple of more russians. The proliferation of drones presents an opportunity to revolutionize how goods are transported. But it also presents new threats. The faa reauthorization act 2024 directed the faa to establish regulations for drones to operate beyond visual line of sight.
▶ 1:12:48Chair Cruz: The tsa and its portion of the proposed rule released last year called for security requirements on drones that industry claims mirror those imposed on cargo airlines. I am concerned the tsa's proposed drone framework is at odds with the actual drone operations it regulates. We you commit to working with industry, stakeholders, to fully understand their operations before imposing a security regime that may not fit the perceived threat?
▶ 1:13:18Mr. Cummins: I do commit and I want to affirm the future of package delivery is going to be with drones. And the tsa needs to have a regulatory environment that does not hinder that efficiency.
▶ 1:13:31Chair Cruz: It is also important use of technology is to mitigate drones is used responsibly so we enjoyed incidents like we saw in el paso, texas, earlier this year when the department of war reportedly deployed a high energy laser on a drone without faa approval. Will you commit to working with the faa on the deployment and use of cutter drone technologies?
▶ 1:13:53Mr. Cummins: Yes, I do. And we are actively working with them now. To be clear, we are not using kinetic energy drones at this point.
▶ 1:14:02Chair Cruz: My final question is required of all nominees, if confirmed, you pledge to work collaboratively with this committee to provide thorough and timely responses to the committee's requests and to appear before the committee when requested?
▶ 1:14:14Mr. Cummins: I will.
▶ 1:14:16Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senators will have to the close of business on july 17 to submit questions for the record. At the nominee will have until the close of business on july 20 to respond to those questions. That concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]