▶ 0:27:47Chair Murkowski: The committee will come to order. We are here to consider five bills involving access to health care and the restoration of wetlands. The crow revenue act would facilitate an exchange of mineral and service interests in montana.
▶ 0:28:06Chair Murkowski: There would be an exchange of mineral interests to the crow pride to provide the tribe with continuing revenue from any future development at the gold mountain mineral interest, and a related land exchange to allow public access. The indian health service emergency transparency act from senator rounds would extend the period for extending service for emergency care outside the ihs system from 72 hours to 13 days.
▶ 0:28:35Chair Murkowski: This would ensure that patients are not denied payment for emergency services because they could not meet an unreasonably short deadline. The quinault nation land transfer act would transfer 72 acre parcel called allotment 11 57 from the forest service to the department of the interior to be held in service of the aqueduct indian -- for the indian nation.
▶ 0:29:02Chair Murkowski: The albuquerque indian school act from senator heinrich would transfer the remaining federal property at the former albuquerque indian school into trust to the 19 pueblos of new mexico. The bill would support the continued efforts to transform a site associated with a difficult federal history into a center for education, health care, cultural preservation, government services, and economic development.
▶ 0:29:26Chair Murkowski: The pitt river land transfer act from senator padilla and the late representative lamalfa would transfer the four corners property currently managed by the forest service, and related tribal fee lands, to be taken into trust for the tribe. I would like to thank the sponsors who work on these important measures for tribes across the nation. I support advancing these bills.
▶ 0:29:51Chair Murkowski: I hope my colleagues will join me while similarly seeking my alaska priorities when I seek to advance them. I will turn to the vice chairman.
▶ 0:30:00Sen. Schatz: The bills on today's agenda address a range of tribal interests from conveying land into trust or improving indian health care. But as 23 nine stands apart from the others. This is no ordinary land swap. The -- it transfers ownership of federal lands to a private entity for mining activity.
▶ 0:30:23Sen. Schatz: If enacted, none of this activity would be subject to the national environmental policy act, and federal royalties would cease. It also lacks transparency. The lessee is not named. There is no requirement for an appraisal. There is no guarantee the crow tribe would benefit from any revenue-sharing deal. It is a net loss to the american people of public lands and access, and as taxpayers.
▶ 0:30:51Sen. Schatz: I had questions in 2024 when we had a hearing on this bill. This bill is unusual. We are sort of being asked to be the city council zoning and land use committee for the united states of america. That is unusual in and of itself. But if we are going to do that, we should at least know as much as a city council zoning and land use committee would know about what is in the deal. There is no appraisal. There is no revenue-sharing agreement that we are aware of.
▶ 0:31:22Sen. Schatz: We don't even know exactly how this deal is to work. What we do know is this deal is configured specifically to exempt a coal mine operator from the national environmental policy act. The lessee is not named. There is no requirement for appraisal. Here is what we know about this bill and the players behind this land swap.
▶ 0:31:44Sen. Schatz: It would authorize transfer of certain federal parcels in the bowl mountains of montana to the houck family trust, which plans to partner with the current lessee, signal peak energy, to mine coal resources. If enacted, none of the mining activity would be subject. It is partly owned by a multinational trading company that operates their numerous subsidiaries worldwide.
▶ 0:32:12Sen. Schatz: It's co-founder was sanctioned by the U.S. treasury in november 2025. Trump's treasury department tweeted that the kremlin's puppet will never get a license to operate. Signal peak energy pled guilty in 2021 to violating federal mine health and safety regulations and was sentenced to a $1 million fine and three years probation.
▶ 0:32:41Sen. Schatz: The violations involved in properly pumping mine waste into abandoned mine areas and concealing or failing to report serious worker injuries. Up until a year ago, they were partly owned by an energy subsidiary that sold its stake before first energy's ohio utilities agreed to pay 270 $5 million to ratepayers in a settlement related to a bribery scandal.
▶ 0:33:10Sen. Schatz: From the 16 2018, signal peak submitted false invoices to the agency to reduce the amount of coil -- coal royalties it owed under a specific federal mineral police.
▶ 0:33:23Sen. Schatz: The oig also determined that signal peak withheld information from the government in answers to a 2022 fraud generic, including that his former vice president pled guilty to fraud and was sentenced to five years in prison, and the company pled guilty to federal work -- worker health and safety charges in 21. The crow tribe testified it hoped to earn $100 million over 10 years from the development of the coal through a revenue sharing agreement with the trust.
▶ 0:33:53Sen. Schatz: The cbo estimates that it will result in an increase in direct spending of $72 million over a 10 year period for coal royalties that will no longer be collected. This bill does not give us any of these details. At the very least, the deal between signal peak and hoke family trust and the crow tribe, should be transparent.
▶ 0:34:18Sen. Schatz: We are being asked to approve something, and we don't even have the basic data as if we were buying a condominium. You can't buy a condo without an appraisal. And yet we are going to do a massive land transfer and evade the environmental policy act without even knowing the basic configuration of this deal.
▶ 0:34:41Sen. Schatz: That is why I up -- I filed amendments that would provide transparency and accountability to the public, to ensure that the tribe's status -- stated interests are locked in. I ask unanimous consent to enter several documents into the record. Those documents update the record from 2024, arrange for the documents.
▶ 0:35:11Sen. Murkowski: Let's -- chair
▶ 0:35:13Murkowski: Let's start with amendments and then move to the bills. I would ask any members to hold statements if you would like to make them until after we completed the voting. We started at 2:15 on the floor. I would ask for unanimous consent to take up the following amendments en bloc -- daines, cantwell, murkowski-shatz
▶ 0:35:52Murkowski: Amendments. Is there an objection? Hearing no objection, that question is by vos voight -- voice vote. Any opposed? The amendments are agreed to.
▶ 0:36:14Sen. Schatz: We have a number of members who would like to be recorded as a no on 285 287. Please record me as a no. The daines amendment.
▶ 0:36:35Chair Murkowski: Murkowski -- 265-44.
▶ 0:36:45Sen. Schatz: 252-87.
▶ 0:36:49Chair Murkowski: We have not voted on 252-87. The amendments that I read were -- oh, I have two 65-44's. I have a mistake. Which one is right? With that the first one? All right. We need to correct this.
▶ 0:37:22Chair Murkowski: Ok. So we need to redo this to ask unanimous consent to take out the daines amendment to item number one. All those in favor, indicate by saying so. All those opposed? Ok. Those that wish to be recorded no? Lujan, smith, Sen.
▶ 0:37:49Chair Murkowski: Schatz, cantwell will be reported as saying no. Senator rounds is not here. He had filed an amendment that -- it was my understanding that he was choosing to withdraw, but he is not here to speak to that. Vice chairman, you have filed five amendments to agenda item one.
▶ 0:38:20Chair Murkowski: It is my understanding that you are withdrawing your amendment. Is that correct? Would you like to offer any of your other amendments?
▶ 0:38:33Sen. Schatz: Yes, chair murkowski. I would like to offer an amendment which requires the tribe and the hope family trust to reach a written agreement before the conveyances take place, and to show that agreement with the secretary of this committee and the house committee on natural resources. The recorders that it be made public and ensures that the tribe and county benefit from the agreement.
▶ 0:39:01Sen. Schatz: The goal is to allow transparency and fairness before the land swap moves forward. German white clay said he would be open to any amendments that would solidify and clarify the tribe's benefits. This sets a profit floor, guaranteeing the tribe gets no less than 44% or $100 million over two years, whichever is greater.
▶ 0:39:25Sen. Schatz: It also guarantees that muscle shall county replaces the lost royalty revenues, with the remainder going to the hope family trust. This simply requires that the terms be written down, shared with the people who represent the public interest, and made available for anyone to see. I hope my colleagues would agree that a land exchange involving public lands and resources should not move forward on a revenue-sharing handshake at that they are not allowed to see.
▶ 0:39:59Sen. Daines: Thank you for including me in this market. I have a poster board behind me that details the tremendous local support we have for this bill top to bottom. I would say there was one county commissioner that opposed this act. He was soundly defeated 2-1 in the june primary. He is no longer part of this because muscle shall county said we do not want you serving this a county.
▶ 0:40:30Sen. Daines: You see the overwhelming support we have. I want to welcome the chairman of the crow tribe here today, Mr. white clay. This is a win-win for montana. The crow tribe receives an important source of new revenue. We address long-standing issues. There are assurances that jobs will be there in the future. We expand hunting access on publicly owned's. We look forward to getting this past.
▶ 0:41:00Sen. Daines: Regarding the amendment offered by the ranking member, I would just argue this is an affront to tribal sovereignty. Instead of allowing the crow tribe, chairman white clay, to negotiate their own deal for revenue-sharing, this amendment simply says here is the deal. Take it or leave it. The crow revenue act -- notice the first word, crow. It puts all the power in the crow tribe's hands.
▶ 0:41:31Sen. Daines: They get to negotiate a deal that they see as fair. My colleagues could sometimes come out to the crow reservation and see firsthand the issues of poverty that is pervasive around the reservation. Chairman white clay is working hard to try to find ways, instead of greater dependencies on the federal government -- this is how we can defend tribal sovereignty and allow them to generate revenue.
▶ 0:41:58Sen. Daines: Let them tuning -- let them negotiate the deal they see as fair. Only after they are satisfied, notifying the department of the interior, with this bill be allowed. I hope my colleagues will support the tribe. Several shots I won't belabor the point other than if the point is to establish a revenue-sharing agreement, it is not at all unreasonable to enshrine that in the statute.
▶ 0:42:29Sen. Daines: As opposed to what we have now, which is a notion of a deal that may be cut, but that we are supposed to ratify in advance. And I respect the idea that county commissioners and local leaders -- they may be mixed. They may be -- may decisively be in favor of this project. But I am not a county commissioner. I am on the federal side.
▶ 0:42:56Sen. Daines: A waiver of the national environmental policy act is a very serious thing and a very unusual thing. I am not even saying we should definitely not do that. I'm saying if we are going to do that, we should understand what we are doing it for. This is the first time I have ever used pig in a poke in a sentence.
▶ 0:43:18Sen. Daines: To clarify the record, there was one person opposed to the police. That person was removed by the people of muscle shall county. We have virtually unanimous agreement. And this was the issue in the primary election. It was two republicans. The sitting and county commissioner, who opposed the crow revenue act, and the one who supported it. The last one was opposed to it.
▶ 0:43:43Sen. Daines: The one who supported it defeated him in the primary by a 2-1 margin. So it would be unfair to characterize this as division back home. There is complete agreement, and I am grateful that we are trying to stand up here for the sovereignty and self-determination rights and principles for the crow tribe, to allow them to proceed on this and to get this deal done. Thank you. Several shots there is a letter from three commissioners of muscle shall county, august 4.
▶ 0:44:12Sen. Daines: We are following up on her latest meeting with your staff. Please support including muscle shall county in the revenue-sharing agreement. It may be true that people like the idea of this deal. But muscle shall county is specifically asking that we enshrine the revenue agreement in federal statutory law.
▶ 0:44:32Sen. Murkowski: I'm going to go ahead and oppose this amendment. I do think it departs from the bill that senator daines has introduced and will make it harder for parties to reach the revenue-sharing agreement. You have indicated that somehow or other this amendment would presume that the crow cannot negotiate on their own.
▶ 0:45:01Sen. Murkowski: And so I am looking at this as an amendment that conflicts with the bill as endorsed by the crow tribes, the county and others. It is far more likely to undermine the economic benefits than to bolster them. Any further comments? Vice chairman, are you asking for a roll call?
▶ 0:45:27Sen. Murkowski: The question is on agreeing to the -- the amendment to the agenda item. We have a roll call. The clerk will call the roll. [voting]
▶ 0:46:21Sen. Murkowski: >> yays are five, nayws are six.
▶ 0:46:29Sen. Lujan: I would like to call up senator shots -- schatz's amendment. This is a simple amendment, one that I'm thinking might just be accepted. I think it was an oversight in drafting the legislation that did not clarify the term lessee in the piece of legislation.
▶ 0:47:01Sen. Lujan: As currently drafted, the definition of lessee in the bill is circular and vague. We all know this land exchange will affect the interests of four families -- the hope family, a private entity, the crow tribe, the federal government, and signal peak energy. All but signal peak energy are clearly identified in the bill.
▶ 0:47:26Sen. Lujan: While I know the sections are different in the amendment versus the original bill, if you go to the amendment that will be offered on the legislation and you look at -- under lessee, it says the term means the lessee for the bull mountain lakes. But everyone else is listed by name. And if you look at the blm least notice, peak energy. The amendment is very simple.
▶ 0:47:54Sen. Lujan: It says to clearly include signal peak in that definition of lessee. I see no reason to apply the same level of transparency to the lessee as it has been applied everywhere else. I urge my colleagues to vote in favor of adopting this technical amendment.
▶ 0:48:10Sen. Daines: Thank you. By the way, I want to recognize senator moran. Senator moran visited montana and the first place he went to was the crow reservation. So I stand corrected. When I talked to the committee here, I will have to applaud that senator moran when he came with me many years ago. Thank you. Addressing the amendment offered.
▶ 0:48:40Sen. Daines: I do believe this amendment is unnecessary. I believe the existing definition is sufficient. The majority of the mine is owned by a company based in ohio. There is a minority interest owned by a swiss headquartered petroleum company with a U.S. citizen as its ceo. The current ceo is from houston, texas. I would urge my colleagues to oppose this bill.
▶ 0:49:08Sen. Lujan: I am just surprised by that. All the others are listed by name. It has the name on it. I don't know why we would not include. Typically, when we work on legislation, we include who it is. I am just surprised by that. I would hope that for consistency, with legislation, that we would adopt this amendment.
▶ 0:49:34Sen. Lujan: I would also ask unanimous consent to submit the legal status notice of availability into the record.
▶ 0:49:47Sen. Murkowski: It is my understanding that the bull mountain fleece is already defined in the bill with the blm least number, which I assume is relevant to this. As I have reviewed it, I look at this and see this as an amendment that does not necessarily include substantive change. The department of interior is not indicating that any change is necessary. And so I intend to oppose. Any further discussion?
▶ 0:50:19Sen. Daines: We do believe the existing definition is sufficient.
▶ 0:50:27Sen. Murkowski: A roll call vote has been requested. So, let's see. Let's go ahead and quickly call the role. -- roll.
▶ 0:50:51Sen. Murkowski: [voting] >> on this vote, the yays are five, the nays are six.
▶ 0:51:24Chair Murkowski: Are there further amendments?
▶ 0:51:29Sen. Schatz: I would like to bring one up. 26506. This is so simple. Any land exchange, public sector, private sector, you get an appraisal. This requires an appraisal. The interior department -- I want everyone to hear this.
▶ 0:51:55Sen. Schatz: This interior department stated for the record that it is unclear whether the parcels to be conveyed are of equal value. This would ensure that the american taxpayers receive a fair return. I do not think this is too much to ask. I do not think this does violence to the project.
▶ 0:52:15Sen. Schatz: The thing that I think is even more worrisome than the basic confederation of this deal is that senator lujan just said can we name the lessee and I'm saying could we appraise the property. These are the kinds of things that would not kill a condo deal, that would not be considered bad faith or interrupting a real estate transaction. This thing is getting less process than an apartment on h street. That, I think, is raising everybody's alarm.
▶ 0:52:53Sen. Daines: Thank you, ranking member, but I do believe this amendment is unnecessary. I think it is stalling the implementation of the bills in the hope the mine closes and the crow do not receive revenue. This is an acre for acre swap that was approved by the tribe, the family, and the mine. We are not getting senator -- similar appraisals on senator cantwell and senator heinrich's bills.
▶ 0:53:22Sen. Murkowski: I will be opposing this amendment. This bill follows the precedent established by the northern cheyenne lands act with a similar land exchange. The approach has been agreed to by the parties to the land exchange. Changing the terms now without support from the parties are input from the implementing agency would only serve to delay implementation. Further discussion on this amendment?
▶ 0:53:51Sen. Murkowski: Seeing none, is there a request for a roll call vote? The question is on agreeing to the amendment to agenda item one. Roll call will be called by the clerk.
▶ 0:54:14Sen. Murkowski: [voting] >> on this vote, the yays are five, the nays are six.
▶ 0:54:47I -- Sen. Schatz: I have one further amendment. As introduced, this would take effect on the date of enactment. It changes by ensuring that the bill does not take effect until five years after the lessee makes its final payment under a settlement to the united states for violations of the false claims act.
▶ 0:55:11I -- Sen. Schatz: This does not change the terms of the underlying bill, but simply builds in time before the conveyances take effect. It seems simple enough to require that the lessee be in good standing with the federal government before it would see substantial land and mineral estates from the blm and the bull mountains.
▶ 0:55:31Sen. Daines: Similar to amendment for, I believe this amendment is unnecessary. It is meant to stall the implementation of the bill in hopes the mine closes and the crow never receive any revenue. The mine was defrauded by the former employee who was criminally prosecuted and is serving jail time. As soon the mine found out they were being defrauded, they alerted the U.S. government. They entered into an agreement.
▶ 0:56:02Sen. Daines: They paid the outstanding royalty payments. It has already been paid, making this amendment unnecessary.
▶ 0:56:10Chair Murkowski: I will be opposing this amendment because it would be penalizing the crow tribe for the act of a lessee. There is already a remedy, and I don't think we should be holding long overdue relief for the tribe hostage to a corporation settlement payment schedule or arbitrary five year delay.
▶ 0:56:30Sen. Schatz: I ask unanimous consent to insert into the record this document from the office of the inspector general. And, you know, I started this journey with my friend, steve daines, trying to balance the equities of the sovereign use of land, trying to help indian country, and my predisposition against the coal mine. Let's be honest.
▶ 0:56:59Sen. Schatz: The more I dug into this, the more I understood that this is a very unusual deal. I don't care if it is a shopping mall or a marina or a solar farm or a stack of condos. This is being done in a very, very unusual way, with some companies that have been kind of repeatedly in trouble with the federal government.
▶ 0:57:22Sen. Schatz: And I do not think all of this is squared away, both in terms of the difficulty the federal government has come into with the operator, but also just basic clarity about when we do land exchanges, we have to make sure we understand the architecture of the deal, and I just don't. I just don't understand the architecture of the deal. I have spent more time than I would care to in trying to get to yes.
▶ 0:57:50Sen. Schatz: This is a tough one because you can see the chairman of the tribe here, and he wants it. But I will tell you I am not satisfied that the tribe is going to benefit. And I am very confident that the county may lose a ton of revenue. I am also very confident that this is a highly, highly unusual way to do a land conveyance in order to effectuate an energy project.
▶ 0:58:21Sen. Schatz: This thing is, in my view, messy and unclear. Had we adopted some of these amendments that, senator daines, if you think they are redundant and they are already being done, you could have just accepted them as amendments, to name the lessee, to conduct an appraisal. Those are not unreasonable asks to get a deal done.
▶ 0:58:45Sen. Schatz: I think that the reason some of us are increasingly alarmed is this -- these almost ministerial questions are being blocked. So we are increasingly worried that we don't know what we are authorizing here.
▶ 0:59:01Sen. Daines: Let's have the vote.
▶ 0:59:04Chair Murkowski: We are voting on the amendment to the agenda item. The clerk will call the roll. [voting]
▶ 0:59:43Chair Murkowski: The amendment is not agreed to. At this time, I would ask, are there other amendments to the bill? Seeing none, I would ask unanimous consent to take up and adopt the four remaining items on the agenda as amended, en l on the agenda as amended, en bloc.
▶ 1:00:13Chair Murkowski: This is agenda item number two, number three as amended, number four as amended, and number five as amended. I am going to take a pause here.
▶ 1:00:48Chair Murkowski: I've got to go vote. Where is rounds? Is he on his on his way, or -- [laughter] >> I second your motion.
▶ 1:01:04Chair Murkowski: I would like to hold for just like two minutes if we can because I would like to take care of the day and spill first if we can. -- the daines bill first, if we can, and then do the en bloc, and that would conclude our business. >> is the record? -- is there a quorum.
▶ 1:01:38Chair Murkowski: They are going to -- have you voted? None of you have. Where is rounds? Well, we've got two minutes here. I gave them two minutes. Yes. Is he here yet? He is on the train.
▶ 1:02:09Chair Murkowski: [laughter] >> if it is a train over at union station --
▶ 1:02:47Chair Murkowski: >> I don't. We still -- we still --
▶ 1:06:05Chair Murkowski: >> chair, you've got problems and we care about them.
▶ 1:06:10Chair Murkowski: We are going to now begin -- we have a quorum present, so we can vote on the bills on the agenda. I am going to call agenda item number one on the crow revenue act as amended.
▶ 1:06:38Chair Murkowski: The vice chairman has requested a roll call vote on this agenda item. The clerk will now call the roll. [voting]
▶ 1:07:03Chair Murkowski: Just wait.
▶ 1:07:07Clerk: Mr. rounds. [voting]
▶ 1:07:30Clerk: On the vote, the yays are six, the nays are five.
▶ 1:07:35Chair Murkowski: I ask unanimous consent to adopt the remaining four agenda items en bloc. Is there an objection? Hearing no objection, the question -- all those in favor, say I.
▶ 1:08:06Chair Murkowski: The ayes appear to have it. The bills are agreed to. Are any members wishing to be recorded no on any of these bills? Seeing no, that concludes our business for today. I appreciate that. If there are members who wish to make statements on any of these bills, now is the time to do so. Otherwise, the hearing is concluded. Thank you.
▶ 1:08:46Chair Murkowski: [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]